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Once Saved, Always Saved? NO.

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LisaLisa

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I whole "saved" thing always bothered me a little bit. I mean, you aren't "saved" until after you die, or until after Jesus comes back because the word "saved" is past tense. You can't be saved from something that hasn't happened yet.

The bible tells us that you must finish the race, to endure to the end, then you will be saved. But to be in a saved condition, is a day to day thing, because only the ones who finish the race will receive the reward. That's how I see it.
 

blondeambition3

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I whole "saved" thing always bothered me a little bit. I mean, you aren't "saved" until after you die, or until after Jesus comes back because the word "saved" is past tense. You can't be saved from something that hasn't happened yet.

The bible tells us that you must finish the race, to endure to the end, then you will be saved. But to be in a saved condition, is a day to day thing, because only the ones who finish the race will receive the reward. That's how I see it.

This is always a 'good' position to be in :)
 

Southern Gent

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I whole "saved" thing always bothered me a little bit. I mean, you aren't "saved" until after you die, or until after Jesus comes back because the word "saved" is past tense. You can't be saved from something that hasn't happened yet.

The bible tells us that you must finish the race, to endure to the end, then you will be saved. But to be in a saved condition, is a day to day thing, because only the ones who finish the race will receive the reward. That's how I see it.

Ahhhhh..Grasshoppa....you have studied to shew thy self approved
 

Saintscruiser

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Brethren, this sums it all up (in a tidy & scriptural Nutshell) for me; "context" is key to me also... ;)

Can Christians Lose Their Salvation?

Arriving at a clear understanding of the true nature of salvation represents the first step in settling the question of eternal security. The Bible clearly teaches that at the very moment of genuine repentance and saving faith a sinner is:

· Converted - turned around (Acts 3:19)
· Reconciled - made at peace (2 Cor 5:19)
· Sanctified - set apart for God (1 Cor 1:2)
· Regenerated - given new life (1 Pet 1:23)
· Redeemed - purchased or bought back (1 Pet 1:18)
· Adopted - placed in God’s family as a son (Rom 8:15) and
· Justified - declared righteous by God (Rom 3:28, 2 Cor 5:21).

Furthermore the repentant sinner is sealed with, indwelt by, baptised in and anointed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13, John 14:17, 1 Cor 12:13, 1 John 2:27). He receives eternal life (John 3:36) and because he is now ‘in Christ’, he is predestined to be conformed to Christ’s image (Rom 8:29). He has come from darkness to light, from death to life and from the power of Satan to God. Once he was blind but now he can see. Truly, he is blessed with all spiritual blessings (Eph 1:3)!

From the very first moment of faith in Christ, all of this is equally true of every single child of God. These are positional truths unrelated to and independent of changing human emotions and feelings. Think for a minute: if Christians can lose their salvation, God is reversing all these actions in the lives of hundreds of people daily.

But what about believers who sin? OH! but What about believers who sin? :)

Part of the reason why some people deny eternal security is due to their mistaken belief that when they were saved, God only forgave the sins they had committed up to that point in time. They feel they must keep confessing their sins daily to ‘stay saved’. If they commit a particularly bad sin, they will lose their salvation and need to be born again...again. However, the Bible is clear that when God justifies a sinner, He clears his guilt, past, present and future. The sinner is declared righteous on the basis of the propitiatory and substitutionary death of Christ. Think about it; when Christ died on the cross no one now living existed. All their sins were future! So, where are the sins of those who believe in Christ? They have been remitted and forgiven on the basis of their acceptance of the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ at Calvary. Christ gave Himself a ransom for all, and those who believe are justified from all things, from which they could not be justified by the law of Moses (Acts 13:39). God never reverses His justification of repentant sinners!

The daily sins of a believer must be confessed individually to God (1 John 1:9), but this is to maintain communion with Christ, not union with Christ. When God adopts into His family, a child of wrath becomes a son of God (1 John 3:1). Although a son in a human family may disobey his parents and be punished, nothing can change the fact of his sonship. Thus it is with a true child of God; the Lord will not cast him away.

Can Christians live as they like?

This seems a logical question at first sight, but it betrays a further misunderstanding of the nature of salvation. Paul encountered this objection when he expounded the twin truths of imputed righteousness and justification by ‘faith alone’ in Romans ch. 3. He states: ‘‘Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein? ’’ (Rom 6:2). He progresses the argument to explain that justified sinners have died to sin. Once the slaves of sin, they have now changed masters. Salvation never sets a man free to do as his sinful nature pleases. From the first moment, the new-born believer cries out ‘‘Lord, what do You want me to do’’ (Acts 9:5). There are no ‘free agents’ in the world, for all are either slaves of sin or bond-servants of Jesus Christ. When a sinner turns to God from idols, it is with a view to becoming God’s bond-slave (1 Thess 1:9).

True believers who fall into sin will be chastened by their Father (Heb 12:6-11) and disciplined by their local church (1 Cor 5:4-5); but any professing Christians who live in sin and go unpunished, only prove they were never saved in the first place (Heb 12:8) — for ‘‘whoever is born of God does not practise sin’’ (1 John 3:9). Thus, the Bible does not teach that those who profess Christianity but then return to their sinful ways are still ‘guaranteed heaven’. The Bible repeatedly emphasises the fact that “the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Judas exemplifies this truth. That he never lost his salvation is clear from the Lord’s words to the 12 disciples; ‘‘Ye are clean, but not all ’’ (John 13:10). Judas had never been to Christ for cleansing and forgiveness. His actions proved he was an apostate, not a backslider.

But what about all those tricky verses?

Well known evangelical speakers and writers attempt to prove from the Bible that Christians can lose their salvation. What verses do they employ in their teaching? Here are six typical verses:

1. ‘‘If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them and cast them into the fire, and they are burned’’ (John 15:6).

This verse concerns ‘abiding in Christ’ and refers to believers’ ‘communion’ - not ‘union’ - with Him. Thus the Lord Jesus Himself speaks in v10 of His own abiding in the Father. The figurative language of v6 speaks of one who, through lack of communion with Christ, loses his testimony before men (men gather and burn, not God).

2. ‘‘...you have fallen from grace’’ (Gal 5:4)

While the epistle to the Romans proves that sinners are saved by ‘faith plus nothing’, Galatians proves they stay saved by ‘faith plus nothing’. The irony is that many who would abhor any thought of earning salvation by works, attempt to keep their salvation by works, which theologically amounts to the same thing. One cannot keep by works the gift one received by faith (Rom 6:23). ‘Falling from grace’ in the context of Galatians, refers to those who were trying to keep the law to ‘stay saved’ and had therefore fallen away from the true teaching of salvation through grace. They had lost their understanding of true salvation (unmerited grace), not salvation itself.

3. ‘‘You...has He reconciled.. if you continue in the faith’’ (Col 1:21-23)

Does this verse teach conditional salvation? Not at all. Repeatedly in scripture, ‘if’ simply means ‘since’. One may be asked to turn off a light switch and reply, ‘‘If you say so’’. So here in Colossians, the fact that some continues in the faith furnishes the proof of their salvation; it is not put forth as a condition of salvation.

4. ‘‘For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened...If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance’’ (Heb 6:6)

In checking the context here, it is clear that those mentioned were enlightened but not saved. They tasted but did not drink. They experienced spiritual power but were not personally born again. These Jews had come out of Christ-rejecting Judaism into a knowledge of the truth, yet they had stopped short of actual faith in Christ. With full knowledge of the gospel, they had turned their backs on Christ. The context clearly shows that the author of Hebrews did not have true believers in mind here. Verse 9 states: ‘‘But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation.’’ In other words, no true believer can apostatise. (If this passage taught loss of salvation, the loss would be permanent — no repentance is possible according to v6).

5. ‘‘For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins’’ (Heb 10:26)

If this verse robs all deliberately sinning believers of salvation, then all are lost; for all believers commit deliberate sins. To avoid this particular doctrinal pitfall, it is vital to understand the ‘wilful sin’ in the context of the entire Hebrew epistle. Verse 26 refers to Jews who had come to a head-knowledge of the Messiah and then gone back to ritualistic Christ-rejecting Judaism. Then in v39 the position of true believers is contrasted with these Jewish apostates: ‘‘But we are not of those who draw back unto perdition; but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.’’ True believers may backslide, but they can never become apostate.

6. ‘‘For if after they have escaped...they are again entangled...the latter end is worse with them than the beginning’’ (2 Peter 2:20-22)

Again, this verse is about apostasy not ‘backsliding’. Believers are sheep (1 Pet 5:2), but here Peter is speaking of dogs and pigs (v22). They had a head-knowledge of the truth but had not truly repented. Finally, after an outward association with Christianity, they drifted back to the very depths of worldly pollution from which they had ‘escaped’.

So, each verse that may appear at first glance to teach conditional salvation, can be seen on closer inspection to teach no such thing. There is no space to deal with other verses here, but reference to sound evangelical commentaries will furnish plenty of helpful exposition to clarify any further difficulties.



Now, let's debate (God help me for opening this can of worms!) the following questions;

1) What sin causes loss of salvation?

A theft? A swear word? A lie? Ten lies? 50 lies? INHO no specific uniform answers are available, indicating the unsound foundation on which this error is built.

2) How does loss of salvation become known to an individual?

Again, solid answers are not there, only nebulous suggestions.

3) How is salvation recovered?

If salvation is through believing, how does one ‘believe again’? No one who has had Christ revealed to his soul could ever ‘believe again’. Interestingly, some cults who teach baptismal regeneration and conditional salvation do not insist on rebaptism once a ‘backslider’ has been ‘restored’. In other words, baptism is essential for salvation first time around, but not the second time — repentance is all that is needed!

4) Where in scripture is there an example of a true believer losing his salvation and then being saved again?

There is not a single case of this type anywhere in the Bible. Some have suggested the case of the immoral man in 1 Corinthians ch. 5. However, scripture never indicates he lost his salvation. Once he was disciplined he truly repented, thus proving his genuineness — after which he was received back into the local church at Corinth (2 Cor 2:6-8).

Here now is a list of scriptures to prove the glorious truth of scripture — ‘once in Christ in Christ forever’.

John 5:24: ‘‘Verily, Verily, I say unto you, he that hears My word, and believes on Him who sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but has passed from death unto life.’’ This ‘passage’ is a one way street and carries no threat of reversal.

John 10:27-28: ‘‘My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and [firstly] they shall never perish, [secondly] neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.’’ Some make an attempt to circumvent the clarity of eternal security as taught in this verse by saying that while no other man is able, a Christian can pluck himself out of the Father’s hand! Actually, the word ‘man’ is an italicised supplied word. The verse is simply teaching that no foe or force of any kind can ever sever the true believer from Christ.

Eph 4:30: ‘‘And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.’’ The seal of ownership upon every believer is guaranteed to continue right through to the resurrection and beyond.

Phil 1:6: ‘‘Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.’’ God has promised to see Christians through to the day of Christ’s return.

II Tim 1:12: ‘‘I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.’’ If salvation depended on individuals, each one would have perished long ago. Thank God He is able to keep without losing even one weak believer.

.... see also Heb 5:9, 10:14, 1 Peter 1:3-5, 1 John 5:11-13.

The scriptural motivation for Christian service should not be fear of losing one’s salvation but rather love to Christ. How tragic that some attend church and read their Bibles driven by the fear that if they do not fulfil these duties they will be cast out. May the Lord graciously reveal the truth of eternal security and the believer’s new position in Christ, that bond-service to Him may become the most blessed freedom of all.

In closing (for me at least) God has settled this issue at least with me. I am 'confident' of my salvation based on God's promises (unmerited unwarranted Grace) and Christ's sacrifice on the Cross. His Word is sufficient for me and my relationship with Him will endure forever. While Apostasy exists, it exists only for those who never truly knew Christ to begin with.

I love all of you regardless of your position on this matter and I've heard all of the eloquent & persuasive arguments .. but this is mine completely. For me, 'it was finished for me forever on the Cross'..... :)

PS - Sorry Guys... I'm not the best at 'color-coding' for emphasis... forgive all the errors :oops:

PSS - Why else would it be called 'The Good News of the Gospel' if it weren't truly GOOD NEWS?


Excellent, Sister Cuz! I so totally agree!!!! :w00t::banana::w00t::banana::w00t:
 

Scott Tenorman

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I whole "saved" thing always bothered me a little bit. I mean, you aren't "saved" until after you die, or until after Jesus comes back because the word "saved" is past tense. You can't be saved from something that hasn't happened yet.

The bible tells us that you must finish the race, to endure to the end, then you will be saved. But to be in a saved condition, is a day to day thing, because only the ones who finish the race will receive the reward. That's how I see it.

Sorry to just .... in like this but I have to say something. There is a problem with the line of thinking above and it lies in the use of the word "you", also sometimes "I". Our salvation has absolutely NOTHING with what we can do or what we are capable of. It has everything to do with what Christ has done for us. The Bible does not say that you must finish the race, endure to the end, and THEN you will be saved. (Yes, Paul does talk about finishing the race but it's quite a stretch to say he is talking about salvation, nothing supports that except an external idea applied to the passage) It simply says to believe on Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31)

It doesn't say believe AND also do a bunch of stuff, or believe AND keep certain commandments, or do a list of things, just believe. This is completely and totally different than the way God dealt with people pre-Christ. The reason is that if we had to do a bunch of stuff to be saved, then we would have somehow "earned" that salvation. This applies to grace as well. If grace can in any way be earned then it is not grace. One of the primary attributes of grace is that it is free and undeserved. By definition grace cannot be earned and neither can salvation.
 

LisaLisa

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Sorry to just .... in like this but I have to say something. There is a problem with the line of thinking above and it lies in the use of the word "you", also sometimes "I". Our salvation has absolutely NOTHING with what we can do or what we are capable of. It has everything to do with what Christ has done for us. The Bible does not say that you must finish the race, endure to the end, and THEN you will be saved. (Yes, Paul does talk about finishing the race but it's quite a stretch to say he is talking about salvation, nothing supports that except an external idea applied to the passage) It simply says to believe on Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31)

It doesn't say believe AND also do a bunch of stuff, or believe AND keep certain commandments, or do a list of things, just believe. This is completely and totally different than the way God dealt with people pre-Christ. The reason is that if we had to do a bunch of stuff to be saved, then we would have somehow "earned" that salvation. This applies to grace as well. If grace can in any way be earned then it is not grace. One of the primary attributes of grace is that it is free and undeserved. By definition grace cannot be earned and neither can salvation.

You're absolutely right in that we can't earn our salvation, it is through grace that we are saved. But, there are requirements, and Jesus made this very clear. The Bible says in the two verses below that we must endure to the end, and then we will be saved.

Persecution of Disciples- Matthew 24 9-13

24:9 “Then they will hand you over to be persecuted and will kill you. You will be hated by all the nations 17 because of my name. 18 24:10 Then many will be led into sin, 19 and they will betray one another and hate one another. 24:11 And many false prophets will appear and deceive 20 many, 24:12 and because lawlessness will increase so much, the love of many will grow cold. 24:13 But the person who endures to the end will be saved.

and

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." Mat 10:22 KJV

I remember reading in revelation, cant find the verse right now, but it says something about those who kept His commandments were saved at the last day.

If once saved, always saved was true, then look at the ‘The Parable Of The Sower’. I have quoted the Matthew 13:3-23 Scripture here, but the same parable can also be found in Mark 4:1-20 and Luke 8:4-15.

Matthew 13:3-9:
3 Then [Jesus] told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed.
4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.
5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow.
6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.
7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants.
8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop – a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.
9 He who has ears, let him hear.” [NIV]

The Disciples wanted to know what this parable meant and Jesus explained.

Matthew 13:18-23
18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:
19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.
20 The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.
21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.
22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.
23 But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.” [NIV]

For people who believe that “once saved, always saved” I rhetorically ask: how do you relate your beliefs to Matthew 13: 20-21? If a man cannot lose his salvation then why would Jesus say: “When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away”?

The key to how we are saved is in John 3:16:
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” [NIV]

I understand that the word ‘believes’ in the Greek is an on-going verb (this is not so easy to determine because Greek is a contextual language). It really says that unless we keep on believing in Him we will perish and not have everlasting life. We are saved by Grace as long as we keep on believing in Him. Let’s check another Scripture.

Mark 13:13 says:
[Jesus said] “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” [NIV]

Look again at the second half of that sentence. Jesus is saying that to be saved you must stand firm (for Him) and faithful until you die. Conversely He is therefore saying that those who do not stand firm will not be saved! Notice that I am not quoting Paul or any other Apostle or Disciple, but the Son of God Himself.

There is just way too much evidence in the bible that completely contradicts once saved, always saved. In fact, I can't find even one verse that supports it, but alot of verses that specifically go against it. Salvation is a free gift, but you have free will, and many people who once believed and accepted that gift later changed their minds and gave the gift back. I know some who were christians and are now atheists. So, are they saved too? Not according to the bible.

What about the believers that cave in while under severe persecution and accept the mark of the beast? Are they saved? The bible says no.

More info here : Once Saved Always Saved - fact or fiction
 
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