Once Saved, Always Saved? NO.

[Southern Gent]

That I don't know about.... can't understand 'why' someone would do that...

I don't understand it either but it happens. I've had an elder of the church walk away after 57 years!! Very devout man, produced fruit 100's fold, knew the Bible cover to cover and made it a point in his life to follow Jesus' very command to love God & neighbor. He walked away...period. Now to say this man was never saved? He was saved...he was doing the work of God...he just quit the race. That's why Paul said, "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith". Why would Paul say that? Because it is possible for someone who is saved to quit.

 

[blondeambition3]

I don't understand it either but it happens. I've had an elder of the church walk away after 57 years!! Very devout man, produced fruit 100's fold, knew the Bible cover to cover and made it a point in his life to follow Jesus' very command to love God & neighbor. He walked away...period. Now to say this man was never saved? He was saved...he was doing the work of God...he just quit the race. That's why Paul said, "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith". Why would Paul say that? Because it is possible for someone who is saved to quit.

I believe it can happen. I just can't understand 'why' it happens. Why do you think this happens?

 

[Southern Gent]

I believe it can happen. I just can't understand 'why' it happens. Why do you think this happens?

It is beyond me as to why. If I could answer that then there would be no lost people in the church. This man's soil was not shallow or cluttered, he was not simply playing Christian or blinded by Satan's games or anything of the sort. 57 years he devoted and one day he says that's it....I'm through with it and don't ever want to hear anymore about it.

 

[LisaLisa]

I don't understand it either but it happens. I've had an elder of the church walk away after 57 years!! Very devout man, produced fruit 100's fold, knew the Bible cover to cover and made it a point in his life to follow Jesus' very command to love God & neighbor. He walked away...period. Now to say this man was never saved? He was saved...he was doing the work of God...he just quit the race. That's why Paul said, "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith". Why would Paul say that? Because it is possible for someone who is saved to quit.

He allowed satan to come in and entertain him, to the point where he eventually abandoned God. Sad, but true.

 

[Saintscruiser]

Great points Sister E and Brother J. SG, I don't understand what you're trying to go for here. I could no more denounce Jesus than I could to jump off of the Empire State Bldg. Thank God I live down here. The only time I was at the top of the Empire State bldg, was in 1964. One of the elevators were broken and it was down right cold up there....in august! Yet, I digress.

You are talking about the seeds falling in shallow soil. That is what I call 'having an experience'....an emotional experience. Those don't last very long. They go to church for a few months then you never see them again. Those are the ones that fool you. There are those in the church who serve the Lord and aren't saved. We don't judge, but we can be fruit inspectors. I know of no one that once they are saved, they throw it away. Being a child of the King is the epitome of being protected, loved, comforted, cared for, etc. If you've never received a hug from the Savior, you are truly missing out. Does He answer all of my prayers? Yes He does. Sometimes its yes, sometimes it is no, and other times it is wait. People get discouraged when they pray and they don't see anything happening immediately. (I have had immediate answers, but it's not all the time.) Sometimes God needs to set the stage and that takes time. God knows the exact way to fix a problem. It may take days, weeks, even years. This is what I have lived and can testify to.

I can only speak for myself, but the above is what I know to be true. I cannot survive without Jesus and the mere thought panics me. So if that panics me, you can only imagine how Jesus felt on the cross when the Father had to look away.

 

[Southern Gent]

Great points Sister E and Brother J. SG, I don't understand what you're trying to go for here. I could no more denounce Jesus than I could to jump off of the Empire State Bldg. Thank God I live down here. The only time I was at the top of the Empire State bldg, was in 1964. One of the elevators were broken and it was down right cold up there....in august! Yet, I digress.

You are talking about the seeds falling in shallow soil. That is what I call 'having an experience'....an emotional experience. Those don't last very long. They go to church for a few months then you never see them again. Those are the ones that fool you. There are those in the church who serve the Lord and aren't saved. We don't judge, but we can be fruit inspectors. I know of no one that once they are saved, they throw it away. Being a child of the King is the epitome of being protected, loved, comforted, cared for, etc. If you've never received a hug from the Savior, you are truly missing out. Does He answer all of my prayers? Yes He does. Sometimes its yes, sometimes it is no, and other times it is wait. People get discouraged when they pray and they don't see anything happening immediately. (I have had immediate answers, but it's not all the time.) Sometimes God needs to set the stage and that takes time. God knows the exact way to fix a problem. It may take days, weeks, even years. This is what I have lived and can testify to.

I can only speak for myself, but the above is what I know to be true. I cannot survive without Jesus and the mere thought panics me. So if that panics me, you can only imagine how Jesus felt on the cross when the Father had to look away.

57 years of service to God ain't shallow soil sis!!! This man became an apostate.

 

[blondeambition3]

Great points Sister E and Brother J. SG, I don't understand what you're trying to go for here. I could no more denounce Jesus than I could to jump off of the Empire State Bldg. Thank God I live down here. The only time I was at the top of the Empire State bldg, was in 1964. One of the elevators were broken and it was down right cold up there....in august! Yet, I digress.

You are talking about the seeds falling in shallow soil. That is what I call 'having an experience'....an emotional experience. Those don't last very long. They go to church for a few months then you never see them again. Those are the ones that fool you. There are those in the church who serve the Lord and aren't saved. We don't judge, but we can be fruit inspectors. I know of no one that once they are saved, they throw it away. Being a child of the King is the epitome of being protected, loved, comforted, cared for, etc. If you've never received a hug from the Savior, you are truly missing out. Does He answer all of my prayers? Yes He does. Sometimes its yes, sometimes it is no, and other times it is wait. People get discouraged when they pray and they don't see anything happening immediately. (I have had immediate answers, but it's not all the time.) Sometimes God needs to set the stage and that takes time. God knows the exact way to fix a problem. It may take days, weeks, even years. This is what I have lived and can testify to.

I can only speak for myself, but the above is what I know to be true. I cannot survive without Jesus and the mere thought panics me. So if that panics me, you can only imagine how Jesus felt on the cross when the Father had to look away.

Yes L! This is exactly how I feel also!

 

[Saintscruiser]

It is beyond me as to why. If I could answer that then there would be no lost people in the church. This man's soil was not shallow or cluttered, he was not simply playing Christian or blinded by Satan's games or anything of the sort. 57 years he devoted and one day he says that's it....I'm through with it and don't ever want to hear anymore about it.

Well, since I don't know this man, it sounds like he was suffering burnout. Maybe his health is failing. Could be that a prayer request wasn't answered like he wanted, like someone died and there was no making sense of it, maybe he was angry at God for something you didn't know and just didn't want to serve Him anymore......God will give him space, but will bring him back around when it's time. Don't give up on the situation....keep praying. And, once he's restored, the Lord will put people in his path that are going through the same thing he is going through now. He will be able to help them, and these people will be grateful.

 

[LisaLisa]

57 years of service to God ain't shallow soil sis!!! This man became an apostate.

I think the fact that satan even tempted Jesus shows that even He could have chosen to deny God and fall away, or else satan wouldn't even have bothered tempting Him.

Free will means just that, the freedom to choose your path. It's an ongoing choice tho, not just a one time deal. Everyday is a choice as to who you will serve.

 

[blondeambition3]

57 years of service to God ain't shallow soil sis!!! This man became an apostate.

I know what you're saying SG. It could & does happen. We walk a narrow path.

 

[Southern Gent]

We tried to talk with him for 2 solid years....he has since passed on.

 

[blondeambition3]

We tried to talk with him for 2 solid years....he has since passed on.

that's so sad

 

[Saintscruiser]

Service does not equate salvation. I know a person who is 64 years old, professing to be a Christian from age 12. She would go out with the nursing home folks to visit these shut-ins. Worked as a couple of church secretaries, had a gorgeous voice and used to do solos all the time, taught Sunday School and GA's for girls, even led a church choir for years. Her 2nd husband physically abused her, even while she was pregnant, and after 17 years, got a divorce. She was unequally yoked. She remarried someone she shouldn't have......had an affair on him and got a divorce. She then lost her choir position and blamed the church, organized religion. She hasn't been back to church since that happened. She married this last man, and again she is unequally yoked. I tried to talk to her about it. She told me she didn't care about spending eternity with him, she just wanted the here and now. They have been married 10 1/2 years. Is she saved? I don't know. Is he saved? No. There are times I see evidence and other times I don't see anything. I've done all I can. It's now between her and God.

 

[blondeambition3]

Service does not equate salvation. I know a person who is 64 years old, professing to be a Christian from age 12. She would go out with the nursing home folks to visit these shut-ins. Worked as a couple of church secretaries, had a gorgeous voice and used to do solos all the time, taught Sunday School and GA's for girls, even led a church choir for years. Her 2nd husband physically abused her, even while she was pregnant, and after 17 years, got a divorce. She was unequally yoked. She remarried someone she shouldn't have......had an affair on him and got a divorce. She then lost her choir position and blamed the church, organized religion. She hasn't been back to church since that happened. She married this last man, and again she is unequally yoked. I tried to talk to her about it. She told me she didn't care about spending eternity with him, she just wanted the here and now. They have been married 10 1/2 years. Is she saved? I don't know. Is he saved? No. There are times I see evidence and other times I don't see anything. I've done all I can. It's now between her and God.

Why don't they just cling to the hem of Christ's garment? There's such mercy there.

 

[Southern Gent]

Service does not equate salvation. I know a person who is 64 years old, professing to be a Christian from age 12. She would go out with the nursing home folks to visit these shut-ins. Worked as a couple of church secretaries, had a gorgeous voice and used to do solos all the time, taught Sunday School and GA's for girls, even led a church choir for years. Her 2nd husband physically abused her, even while she was pregnant, and after 17 years, got a divorce. She was unequally yoked. She remarried someone she shouldn't have......had an affair on him and got a divorce. She then lost her choir position and blamed the church, organized religion. She hasn't been back to church since that happened. She married this last man, and again she is unequally yoked. I tried to talk to her about it. She told me she didn't care about spending eternity with him, she just wanted the here and now. They have been married 10 1/2 years. Is she saved? I don't know. Is he saved? No. There are times I see evidence and other times I don't see anything. I've done all I can. It's now between her and God.

Now hold on a minute....In a previous post you said we have a right to judge fruit. This man had fruit 100 fold and then some. If this is not evidence and the working of the HS then what is it? This man was an elder in the church and met every Biblical qualification. This certainly puts him in the category of the saved. If we can not take God's word, that the day of salvation is when one repents, confesses & accepts Jesus Christ then what as Christians do we accept? Consider Demas in the Bible. Paul called him a fellow worker. Paul certainly considered him saved. Later we see that Demas left having loved "this present world". Paul does not say that we made a mistake with Demas because he was not really saved. Paul says Demas left. Left what? Demas left the faith.

 

[Jason_in_nc]

I think the fact that satan even tempted Jesus shows that even He could have chosen to deny God and fall away, or else satan wouldn't even have bothered tempting Him.

Not to get side-tracked here, but I'm gonna have to disagree. Jesus was fully God, and fully man. He could not have rejected himself, he could not sin.

Satan had no chance of overthrowing God either, but he still gave it a try.

 

[Southern Gent]

Not to get side-tracked here, but I'm gonna have to disagree. Jesus was fully God, and fully man. He could not have rejected himself, he could not sin.

Satan had no chance of overthrowing God either, but he still gave it a try.

Sorry man. The Bible said He was tempted in all things just as we are. If He was not capable of sin, how could He possibly understand our frailties.

 

[Saintscruiser]

Now hold on a minute....In a previous post you said we have a right to judge fruit. This man had fruit 100 fold and then some. If this is not evidence and the working of the HS then what is it? This man was an elder in the church and met every Biblical qualification. This certainly puts him in the category of the saved. If we can not take God's word, that the day of salvation is when one repents, confesses & accepts Jesus Christ then what as Christians do we accept? Consider Demas in the Bible. Paul called him a fellow worker. Paul certainly considered him saved. Later we see that Demas left having loved "this present world". Paul does not say that we made a mistake with Demas because he was not really saved. Paul says Demas left. Left what? Demas left the faith.

Oh yeah....I'm a fruit inspector! I did see fruit from this woman, or so I thought. People who work for years in the church may do it for show. I know this lady did.....many times. Otherwise, how could she turn her back on church, when it was her actions that got her dismissed????? She told me she knows she went about it the wrong way, but still holds the church at fault. Say what????!!!!!

Maybe this man was the same way. Something wasn't kosher in his life for him to do this. I hate that he died, but if he truly accepted Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior, it doesn't matter that he turned away or not. Jesus' word is true. He's in Heaven right now. Now if he never accepted Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior, then no he's not there. Like I said, something happened in his life for him to do that. Do you have any idea what it was?

 

[Jason_in_nc]

Sorry man. The Bible said He was tempted in all things just as we are. If He was not capable of sin, how could He possibly understand our frailties.

cause he made us. He understands us better than we understand ourselves. Did he not understand our frailties before christ?

For him to have been capable of yielding to temptation he would have to be capable of sin. To be capable of sin, he would have to have a sin nature. If he had a sin nature, he could not die in our stead.

Now if we're talking about him knowing what hunger, thirst, fatigue, lonliness...etc is like, then yes I agree with that. But I want us to be careful when we speak of Christ being tempted and yielding to temptation because many people associate that with the possibility of Christ committing sin. I see Christ committing sin as an impossibility.

 

[Southern Gent]

Oh yeah....I'm a fruit inspector! I did see fruit from this woman, or so I thought. People who work for years in the church may do it for show. I know this lady did.....many times. Otherwise, how could she turn her back on church, when it was her actions that got her dismissed????? She told me she knows she went about it the wrong way, but still holds the church at fault. Say what????!!!!!

Maybe this man was the same way. Something wasn't kosher in his life for him to do this. I hate that he died, but if he truly accepted Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior, it doesn't matter that he turned away or not. Jesus' word is true. He's in Heaven right now. Now if he never accepted Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior, then no he's not there. Like I said, something happened in his life for him to do that. Do you have any idea what it was?

Don't know what it was. He said that after all his years of study he has come to the conclusion that the Bible is mythology and he was bitter that he had in his words..."wasted his entire life for bull....". His wasn't for show. He had devoted his entire life to the cause of Christ. I have to disagree with you here. One who totally denounces God puts their salvation in grave jeopardy. If we adhere to scripture--It would have indeed been better for him to have never known. His wife asked me where he was...I said he was in the hands of a merciful God.