Oral cancer scare for vapers, I hope they're wrong!!!!

[Beamslider]

Here's my 2 cents worth on this lousy study.

I surveyed one person, myself. Back when I was smoking a pack or pack and a half of cigarettes a day, the dentist was continually warning me about the dangers of oral cancer and tobacco use. I also had trouble with my gums and pockets which he was regularly shoving antibiotic into.

I have been vaping for 2+ years. I no longer have gum problems, still a few pockets but those have shrunk to levels the dentist is no longer much worried about. And yes the Dentist knows I vape and has never lectured me on the dangers of oral cancer because of it.

I trust the source and will go with it. vaping is far safer than smoking. Nothing is 100%

 

[alvitae]

I'll wait for real life data. Since it seems to me the most often used phrase in the scientific community is "Scientists now believe" aka We were wrong, Again. But are to egotistical to admit it.

 

[stols001]

I don't think there's been a single like, complicated theory that has been 100% right or held up under scrutiny but like the explanations get more and more complex (well in fields of stuff like physics and whatnot and math like who needs imaginary numbers they are ALL imaginary to me). So the hard sciences, well at least I have to assume they are going SomePlace SomeTime but this nonsense NOW where studies are like assuming that "alternate facts" and "backwards statistics" and all that are, well, it NEEDS to STOP.

For me, the big OOOH debacle in HS (besides cold nuclear fission or whatever that was SAD that month-ish or so, before weathermen were like "we can't have that, we might actually not have climate change I mean weather, I'm still not ONE HUNDRED percent sure, well I am mostly sure that it wasn't squashed by the current nuclear Lobby or whatever, was tectonic plates. THAT was the big thing.

Pangea didn't used to exist and it explains a LOT frankly but not ALL things either. LOL.

But with oh this imperfect and tragic thing called testing hypothesis about the world there should be a certain standardized set of rules instead of now, like it's more like playing hopscotch and jump rope combined and the conclusion winds up being, "Suzie is FAT and she couldn't get through more than 30 seconds of the rhyme and Justin saw and called her a big old baby for crying after I called it like it was.."

Only, today's science makes even less sense than THAT,

Anna

 

[BrotherBob]

Scholars from University of California, San Francisco (UC San Francisco) have found that people who consume E-cigarettes and tobacco product are more likely to develop oral cancer, a U.S. non-profit advocating oral health said over the weekend.

Doom and gloom sells more newspapers and advances careers. What they don't say or reference:
American Cancer Society Position Statement on Electronic Cigarettes
From a old California cherry picker.

 

[Drewballs]

The majority of what I wanted to say has already been covered, so I'm going to go off on a tangent instead. This post is barely related to vaping so just a quick warning, read ahead with your tin foil hat at the ready...otherwise just ignore me...like the rest of the lizard people

"International association of dental research"

Many people were scared of their dentist as a child. I was not, but instead believed that they were unknowingly part of a worldwide conspiracy to sell dental products and services by giving bad advice on how to look after your teeth. Since I was about 6 I believed that what they were taught seemed truthful and had been stuck to for so long that it is impossible to find proper control groups to confirm whether or not the information was factual or simply better for previous eras social circumstances and now entrenched in tradition.

What did humans do before toothbrushes? Their teeth fell out and rotted away more, sure, but their diet was vastly different from ours and they didn't have antibiotics to help fight infections nor help their adaptive immune system build resistances to more dangerous bacteria. "Our diet has way more sugar than previous generations!" I hear you cry. Sugar is highly soluble in water and passes our teeth easily - really its complex sugars and acids that cause the most damage to your teeth and with food less easily available to previous generations carbohydrate-rich meals were the norm. To many they still are. My dentist sold my family these really stiff brushes and told us to really scrub our teeth clean. Modern research shows this was wrong soft brushes are recommended instead. Furthermore, my refusal to use those brushes, belief that twice a day was causing more damage than good, and my parents complete inability to question nor control me provided me a very small sample to base my hypothesis on. My brothers and sisters, older and younger all have far worse teeth than I do.

These days I brush twice a day, very gently with a really soft brush and unflavoured, sodium laureth sulfate free toothpaste and have a very dilute menthol spray to freshen my breath. This is all in the hopes that there's one less abnormality about me to scare off potential love interests; the paranoid child still lives inside me - he just really likes sex, drugs and...classical guitar and metal.



What I'm getting at is that this research is probably just a preliminary step towards trying to convince smokers to try nicotine toothpaste in order to damage teeth and increase their profit margins. Or just demonise vaping. Definitely one or the other.

My Nana is 94 and has never been to a dentist... No cleans no fillings no extractions. Just goes to show people in white coats aren't always right and they have to get paid some how. Ergo dentists selling Colgate, researchers working for Philip Morris

 

[bhayes]

Since ENDS (electronic nicotine devices) have only been around about ten years, and they are getting some positive, some negative press, I think we can safely go on vaping and see what the next study/report/research says about the vaping and we are probably safe for now, probably shouldn't overdo it like smoking, drinking and eating and all good things. So......lets keep each other posted on the positives and negatives of vaping like we are doing now on the forum and "don't worry be happy".

 

[Violetti Usva]

My N\ana is 94 and has never been to a dentist... No cleans no fillings no extractions. Just goes to show people in white coats aren't always right and they have to get paid some how. Ergo dentists selling Colgate, researchers working for Philip Morris

Many people in white coats that do know what they are talking about, but the education system, even at degree level, is primarily about regurgitating what you are taught. Then finding work is mostly about finding a bourgeois pig with the money to employ you and hoping that one day you'll work to help society in the way you intended when you started your degree.

 

[DaveP]

You have to wonder how this skull lasted to adulthood with such great teeth. No toothbrushes, no dentist offices, and probably no refined sugar in its diet.

Lots of those prehistoric people may have only lived to 30, though.

 

[Hawise]

I think it's important to make one point in favour of the scientists. Scientific reporting in the media has always been terrible, and if anything it's been deteriorating lately with the de-emphasis of traditional reporting. It's quite possible that the researchers are fully aware of the limitations of their study, but a conclusion of "this finding indicates we need more research on such-and-such a topic" makes a lousy headline.

 

[stols001]

I think a suitable punishment for researchers today might be to make them loop through "Interstellar" over and over again. That movie was like, such a disappointment I mean it had a reasonably conflict oriented premise and cool space ships and betrayal and family drama and the serfs and the peons and the overlords and the husher ups and starving is always good in a movie AND THEN it turned into "the space time continuum is LOVE and tiny blocks and you (well me) are like, "I need to stab out my EYES!"

Course, those researchers might like it.

Of course, it is also true that the crap studies usually go to the media for maximum exposure you will not find them published in the New England Journal of Medicine or even Nature but man who reads those anymore.

I can't say I don't begrudge the awful research but there should be a disclaimer on it, like, "Not really research discovers that it can't prove that youngsters smoking a Juul are 17 times more likely to become rapists," or whatever they are "proving."

Anna

 

[ScottP]

"Scientists now believe"......

....whatever they have been paid to believe right now.

 

[Pete M]

I think it's important to make one point in favour of the scientists. Scientific reporting in the media has always been terrible, and if anything it's been deteriorating lately with the de-emphasis of traditional reporting. It's quite possible that the researchers are fully aware of the limitations of their study, but a conclusion of "this finding indicates we need more research on such-and-such a topic" makes a lousy headline.

This. There was one study reported a while back saying that certain flavours produced formaldehyde and other nasties. And this was true but it was after being heated at very high levels for about half an hour Scientists are not stupid, and in the last sentence of the article there was a quote saying this needs a lot more research before it tells us anything, but of course enough people will just read the headline and first couple of paragraphs for it to make a juicy scare story

To come back to the study in question .. I mean I smoked for over 15 years knowing the risks were incredibly high not just for oral cancer but a bunch of other lethal diseases and cancers, so I'll take my chances on the lesser evil for now.

 

[Baditude]

This reminds me of a number of studies a couple of years back that warned that cinnamon flavors were dangerous. In response to those studies, several e-liquid manufacturers pulled their cinnamon flavors off of their list, but when the studies were rebuked as poorly done studies, the manufacturers added cinnamon back onto their lists.

E-cigarette flavourings damage the lungs - cinnamon vape juice ...
Cinnamon-Flavored E-Cigs May Bring Lung Dangers - WebMD
Scientists Identify 3 Very Toxic Vape Juice Flavors | Inverse
E-cigarette flavors found to be toxic - Medical News Today


​

 

[Uncle Willie]

have found that people who consume E-cigarettes and tobacco product are more likely to develop oral cancer

Based on that Statement alone .. As opposed to a complete non-vaping / no Tobacco using Person ever, the statement is likely correct ..

Most all of us were smokers or Tobacco Product users pre-Vape .. that naturally ups our odds .. how much, I don't have a clue, but logic indicates it would ..

Ever had a dry hit .. ?? Ran a wick way longer than you should have .. ?? Looked at burnt and over used wicks .. ?? What do you think that vape contained .. ??

One way or the other, the Reaper will collect us all eventually ..

 

[Rossum]

The researchers found that all tobacco use categories showed elevated nicotine and TSNA concentrations compared to non-users.

Elevated nicotine? Yeah, I'd expect that in vapers. Elevated TSNA? Not so much.

TSNAs are carcinogens. Nicotine is not.

Smokeless tobacco users have the highest level of TSNA exposure, whether they use one tobacco product or together with other product types.

Yep, you would expect elevated TSNA levels in smokeless tobacco users. And the FDA has proposed regulations limiting the level of the most common/dangerous TSNA, NNN in smokless tobacco products.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2017-01-23/pdf/2017-01030.pdf
Now have a look at page 14 of that PDF, where they've calculated excess lifetime cancer risk due to the use of smokeless tobacco products. The worst of them are still a only a single digit per 10,000! And this is from products that contain significant amounts of TSNAs, which vapes do not.

Nope, not gonna worry about this.

 

[Susaz]

So where is the oral cancer risk?
All they say is nicotine from tobacco has TSNA and NNN. Typical of UCSF.

10 years, show me the risks. No more of this "we just don't know" BS.

I think we, 10 year vapers, are a testimony that vaping isn't harmful at all. I had my heart attack when I started smoking again. Since 2014, all of my studies show improvement in lung and heart conditions. My docs are delighted!

 

[bhayes]

This reminds me of a number of studies a couple of years back that warned that cinnamon flavors were dangerous. In response to those studies, several e-liquid manufacturers pulled their cinnamon flavors off of their list, but when the studies were rebuked as poorly done studies, the manufacturers added cinnamon back onto their lists.

E-cigarette flavourings damage the lungs - cinnamon vape juice ...
Cinnamon-Flavored E-Cigs May Bring Lung Dangers - WebMD
Scientists Identify 3 Very Toxic Vape Juice Flavors | Inverse
E-cigarette flavors found to be toxic - Medical News Today


​

 

[bhayes]

This reminds me of a number of studies a couple of years back that warned that cinnamon flavors were dangerous. In response to those studies, several e-liquid manufacturers pulled their cinnamon flavors off of their list, but when the studies were rebuked as poorly done studies, the manufacturers added cinnamon back onto their lists.

E-cigarette flavourings damage the lungs - cinnamon vape juice ...
Cinnamon-Flavored E-Cigs May Bring Lung Dangers - WebMD
Scientists Identify 3 Very Toxic Vape Juice Flavors | Inverse
E-cigarette flavors found to be toxic - Medical News Today


​

This reminds me of a number of studies a couple of years back that warned that cinnamon flavors were dangerous. In response to those studies, several e-liquid manufacturers pulled their cinnamon flavors off of their list, but when the studies were rebuked as poorly done studies, the manufacturers added cinnamon back onto their lists.

E-cigarette flavourings damage the lungs - cinnamon vape juice ...
Cinnamon-Flavored E-Cigs May Bring Lung Dangers - WebMD
Scientists Identify 3 Very Toxic Vape Juice Flavors | Inverse
E-cigarette flavors found to be toxic - Medical News Today


​

Very good coil builder video, I am going to use it.