Oregon AG's using Office to try to ban selling of 'E-cigarette'

[Thulium]

As Dredbull pointed out, there is no "ban" on e-cigarettes in Oregon whatsoever. State Attorney General John Kroger reached an agreement with njoy and SmokingEverywhere that they would no longer sell their products in Shopping Malls or Truck Stops until the legal status was determined in court.

Unfortunately, some people have coupled this news together with refried stories about antifreeze and nitrosamines...but in reality there is no ban. I've even heard commercials for those scam e-cigs on the radio.

 

[Kimmy]

Oregon can ban whatever they like. It will stop a few people from buying, sure. But just because something is illegal or banned, doesn't mean people won't still do it.

They sell prescription drugs online and get away with it, so can ecigs. I wouldn't worry too much

 

[jennlsnoopy]

Wow! I had no idea that Oregon felt that way. Glad I live in Washington. Never had any problems here. The state seems pretty exceptive of it.

 

[Scott EE]

I wonder how much Oregon or any state for that matter spends on smoking related health care costs per year. And a comparison of how much they collect on tobacco related taxes per year. I have a sneaking suspicion the health costs far outweigh the revenue.

 

[DC2]

I wonder how much Oregon or any state for that matter spends on smoking related health care costs per year. And a comparison of how much they collect on tobacco related taxes per year. I have a sneaking suspicion the health costs far outweigh the revenue.

And I have a sneaking suspicion that none of "them" care about that.

 

[JoeMcPlumber]

I can't believe people are still arguing semantics when the products are being pulled from shelves because the AG is deliberately and systematically intimidating retailers. :/

Not everyone shops on the Internet. In fact here's an amazing thing... in a lot of small towns in Eastern Oregon many folks don't HAVE Internet service, or they connect at 56k which is about the same thing. So when they go into the shops where e-cig supplies used to be and aren't anymore, and the shopkeeper says sorry but the AG told us we couldn't sell that stuff, it's a de facto ban at least for those folks in that geographical area.

The ODOJ press release says that sales are prohibited, and it is that document cited by his goons and in turn cited by the retailers who are sorry they don't carry that product anymore. The only reason that sales are still being made is because the AG and his goons can't be everywhere at once. But they're trying.

Anyone who likes is welcome to stand up to the ODOJ and say they're not subject to the settlement. Heck, i thought of doing it because i've nothing to lose. But retailers in general aren't doing too well these days, and stand a lot to lose.

- joe

 

[muddigger]

im from one of those smaller eastern oregon towns. I just placed an order for a joyce 510 dual starter kit had no problems doing so. I've also seen a local analog smoke shop selling fifty-ones over the counter so i can say there still available online and over the counter locally. Strangely enough i have heard it is the indian population creating problems for people selling them here. I have also been told i couldnt get an e cig here. One of the people who told me was working the mall kiosk over in washington. theyre the ones who actually got me interested in trying one. Now im lookin forward to ditching the analogs as im tired of hackin crap up every time i light up. So knowing my luck they will get blanket banned in wich case ill just get them sent to a buddies house on the wa side and smuggle em over the river lmao

 

[muddigger]

couldnt figure out how to edit previous post to mention that high speed and even wi fi is becoming a lot more available and affordable over here

 

[scofieldchen]

bull ....（操）

 

[Thulium]

im from one of those smaller eastern oregon towns. I just placed an order for a joyce 510 dual starter kit had no problems doing so. I've also seen a local analog smoke shop selling fifty-ones over the counter so i can say there still available online and over the counter locally. Strangely enough i have heard it is the indian population creating problems for people selling them here. I have also been told i couldnt get an e cig here. One of the people who told me was working the mall kiosk over in washington. theyre the ones who actually got me interested in trying one. Now im lookin forward to ditching the analogs as im tired of hackin crap up every time i light up. So knowing my luck they will get blanket banned in wich case ill just get them sent to a buddies house on the wa side and smuggle em over the river lmao

Correct. There is no e-cig ban in Oregon. There is an agreement between John Kroger and Smoking Everywhere and Njoy, but there is nothing stopping anyone else from buying or selling e-cigarette supplies, and there are plenty of radio commercials for e-cigs to confirm this.

Although I don't like that our AG is working "outside the law" on this issue, Kroger's deal doesn't bother me too much because I'd rather get my e-cig supplies from one of our good domestic sources and importers (Nhaler, Madvapes, Cignot, RMV, & Ms T's Bakery have not disappointed, and I've got other suppliers I still want to try!)

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Correct. There is no e-cig ban in Oregon. There is an agreement between John Kroger and Smoking Everywhere and Njoy, but there is nothing stopping anyone else from buying or selling e-cigarette supplies, and there are plenty of radio commercials for e-cigs to confirm this.

Although I don't like that our AG is working "outside the law" on this issue, Kroger's deal doesn't bother me too much because I'd rather get my e-cig supplies from one of our good domestic sources and importers (Nhaler, Madvapes, Cignot, RMV, & Ms T's Bakery have not disappointed, and I've got other suppliers I still want to try!)

Agreed Thulium and the title to this thread has long been misleading at best. I am going to change it to something that is more accurate.


Sun

 

[JoeMcPlumber]

There is no e-cig ban in Oregon.

Maybe i'm just not understanding.
I'm still confused as to why we're arguing a semantic point
when the reality of the situation is an effective ban
for retailers and their customers who are not subject to the agreement.

Maybe *somewhere* within the reasonable driving radius
of a 1970 Ford pickup,
someone is selling the carts that i could really use to hold me over
because i'm out of juice.

But i don't know where it is so i'm feeling pretty darn banned.

There *were* at least three places,
and i don't know exactly what the ODOJ goons said to them,
but whatever it was it scared them.
One retailer referenced a "letter" from the AG but i did not see it,
and another referred me to the press release stating that the devices are banned,
so i assume they were passing on to me what they were shown.

So in other words, in at least one case that i know of,
someone representing the AG went out of his way to contact a retailer
not party to the agreement,
and cited that press release as a BAN on sales of e-cigs in Oregon.
Probably there were implied or ambiguous threats to go along with that,
i dunno.

All three retailers expressed dismay and wished they could sell them
because they were selling like hotcakes.
That means to me, neverminding the Internet,
that a lot of folks had access to e-cigs, and then they didn't.
I bet they feel pretty darn banned too.

Personally i find extra-legal mafioso-style intimidation
even more disturbing than an outright ban.
I guess i just don't understand why we're arguing technicalities
when there is objectively something insidious and sinister going on here.

Bottom line for me isn't so much the "real" legal status of e-cigs in Oregon,
but rather the "real" consequences for real people deprived of them,
and shopkeepers deprived of a substantial income by force of authority.
That the authority has no legitimate sanction
only makes it more disturbing to me.

I guess i'm saying, we're all in this together,
so if some of us encounter an effective ban, that should be of concern to us all.
I don't want to quarrel with anyone,
and if people are still able to get their stuff online
or they find some retailers the AG hasn't got to,
then i'm happy for them.
If others can't do, then i'm sad for them.

I'm not an alarmist but i do find the situation alarming.

If i'm simply missing the point as to why the situation is not of concern,
then please tell me what the point is, and i'll let it go.

- joe

 

[Thulium]

If i'm simply missing the point as to why the situation is not of concern,
then please tell me what the point is, and i'll let it go.

- joe

Perhaps you misunderstood me, I am not saying the situation is not of concern, I am saying there is no actual ban but rather a perceived ban resulting from John Kroger's request to specific retailers that they discontinue sales until the matter has been resolved in court.

The Oregon Ban is a myth, "the point" is that we should not perpetuate it.

Your points about the gestapo tactics at play here are spot on. When we refer to the extra-legal actions of the Oregon Attorney General's office as a "ban", we are giving weight to the opposition.

Bottom line: Don't complain about a ban that doesn't exist. When you encounter someone who feels like they have been "effectively banned" remind them in no uncertain terms that THERE IS NO BAN. If they get an unfriendly letter from the AG...challenge it! What's Kroger going to do, take you to court for violating a law that doesn't exist? Although I really doubt they would try that, I kinda wish they would.

 

[lorikay13]

Isn't Pot just about legal in Oregon? It's crazy!

Yes...we have Medical MJ...we also have Physician Assisted Suicide. In fact we are such a progressive state that if you are so sick that the State decides you arn't worth the money to treat under the Oregon Health Plan (which btw you can ONLY get by winning alottery!) along with the letter denying your claim you will also get a nice letter telling you all about physician asst suicide....

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but we are also one of those states that have State run liquor stores......each town is allowed only so many liqour stores based on population.....and guess what else the State sells in these stores? Right....Big Tobbaco

Hey Thullim...do have a link to an actual facimilie copy of this said agreement? I cannot find one anywhere,...all I can find is the DOJ press releases and they sure make it sound like a ban. Although they do specify that it's against 3 specific ecig companies and two "travel stores". If people are seriously going to put themselves on the line to fight this we are going to have to have hard copy in hand. But based on Krogers past actions it's pretty clear what will happen...he will just file suit against whatever store is selling or whatever brand they are selling. So in reality...do you have any suggestions about what we can do ?

 

[Dredbull]

Joe which juice do you use and what part of Oregon are you in?

 

[buttercrunch]

a tobacco shop near me had some kits for sale recently. The owner was so depressed, he said his cig/tobacco sales were down 40% because of the big tax increase.

 

[Dredbull]

Will make it worse once hr 4439 kicks 2500% increases on pipe tobacco.

 

[Thulium]

I got a response from Oregon Rep Bill Kennemer. Here's my response:

Representative Kennemer,

Thank you for your personal response, Bill. I have contacted my federal representatives and senators at the Federal level as well, but it is important to me personally to ensure that Oregon does not follow the example of several other states that have attempted to restrict the adult usage or sales of smoke-free alternatives

While I fully support prohibiting the sale of ecigarettes to minors, to take away this life‐saving choice from adults is clearly wrong. The American Association of Public Health Physicians estimates the risk of electronic cigarettes to be less than 1% of the risk from smoking traditional cigarettes, so it makes no sense to ban the safer choice while leaving the deadliest product on the market. Unfortunately, some misinformed state legislators and even our own Attorney General John Kroger's office has sent threatening letters to retailers forbidding them from selling "electronic cigarettes".

Although I understand that there are currently no bills in the Oregon Legislature that address these issues directly, I hope that you will be proactive on this important issue to ensure that you make informed policy decisions going forward. I am happy to share any resources at my disposal. I am a voting board member of the Consumer Advocates for Smoke‐free Alternatives Association and we are cooperating with the National Vapers Club. They have a short 8 minute video and a webpage that we can send to our legislators so that they may educate themselves.

Here are the links:
http://www.vapetube.com/video/519/Legislator‐Educational‐Video‐on‐electronic‐cigarettes
http://.............../legislaturepacket.html

You may also find published studies, articles and documents about electronic cigarettes and other smoke‐free alternatives at CASAA | The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-Free Alternatives Association


Best regards,
Thad Marney


On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Rep Kennemer <kennemer.rep@state.or.us> wrote:
Thad, I like your nonpharma approach, only using meds when "esstntial". I am happy to do what I can; however, I am a state elected official, and the USFDA is federal. It would be helpful for you to contact your Congressman, Kurt Schrader and Senators Wyden and Merkeley with your thoughts and suggestions.
If this issue comes to us at the state level, I would be happy to consider it. I join your daughter in being glad that you smoked your last cigarette. Congratulations! Keep up the good work as a home care provider; you are providing a very valuable service.
Best, Bill
From: Thad Marney
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:23 AM
To: Rep Kennemer
Subject: Smoking Cessation & Health Care Reform

Rep. Kennemer,

As I am sure you are aware, smoking related disease is widely considered the leading cause of preventable death in Oregon while smoking cessation programs and pharmaceuticals often have side effects worse than the disease they are intending to quit and produce single digit success rates.

Despite my best efforts using the patch, the gum, the lozenge, hypnotherapy, and "cold turkey", I was unable to free myself from a 10+ year smoking addiction until a few months ago my daughter pointed to the unused electronic cigarette (I had purchased one from a mall kiosk before Oregon AG John Kroger forbade it) on my shelf and said, "Daddy, isn't that pretend cigarette better for you? Why don't you use that again??" That statement prompted me to begin researching until I found a model of electronic cigarette that affordably and effectively replaced my smoking habit. After using an e-cigarette for just a few days I noticed that I was breathing, smelling, and generally feeling better than I had in 10 years and the burnt taste of a lit cigarette quickly lost all its former appeal. I actually could not recall when I had last wanted a cigarette so on December 31, 2009 I chose to smoke one last cigarette and thanks to my e-cigarette I haven't smoked since. More importantly, my daughter hugged me and said, "Daddy, I'm so glad you quit smoking!"

In my research, I was disappointed to discover that the United States Food & Drug Administration is attempting to regulate electronic cigarettes as a "drug" and distributing incomplete data. (Read "7 Biggest Electronic Cigarette Myths": 7 Biggest Electronic Cigarette Myths - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com ) This would effectively leave smokers with two options: Use either the expensive, ineffective, and potentially lethal pharmaceutical products offered by the FDA's "sponsors" like Pfizer & GSK, or continue smoking the most deadly consumer product in history. In other words: Quit or die.

Not satisfied with either option, I have joined and been elected to serve voluntarily on the Board of Directors of the Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association (CASAA). I hope that your office will support legislation to keep available these potentially life saving products available in Oregon and the rest of the country.

As I have researched this subject extensively, I hope that you will consider my viewpoint and the millions of lives that can and will be affected when considering policy and legislation in the Health Care Committee. If you have any questions or would like any additional information or resources, please do not hesitate to contact me or my colleagues at CASAA. As a Clackamas County resident and home care provider, I hope that we can work together on this important issue.

Best regards,
Thad Marney, Oregon City
CASAA | The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-Free Alternatives Association

 

[lorikay13]

Excellent work Thad...thank you!

So may "we" have your permission to use your format and wording,changed to reflect our own personal circumstanses, in order to send similair letters ?

Lorraine

 

[Thulium]

Excellent work Thad...thank you!

So may "we" have your permission to use your format and wording,changed to reflect our own personal circumstanses, in order to send similair letters ?

Lorraine

Funny you should ask... My response actually included text from the form letters CASAA and VC are about to encourage members to use in Illinois and New York.