Organic e-liquids? Or alternatives?

[blujess]

Hey guys,

I have been considering organic e-liquid. Probably virgin vapor. I would actually buy the 50/50 pg vg from them because I NEED a decent throat hit and I hear 100% vg has very little to any throat hit so I'd go 50/50 (currently using 70/30 pg vg from another brand) so in that case it wouldn't technically be fully organic but the flavorings and things are all still organic in the 50/50 line.

They seem to have really good business practices and their e-liquid is highly rated and has won some awards it looks like.

The thing is even though I only get my current e-liquid from a reputable company I am still trying to do the "healthiest" thing. I eat organic foods, and have TOTALLY changed my lifestyle this past year. The only thing is I have a nicotine addiction still So I figure maybe if I go the organic route it could be...."healthier"?

So I've read that organic e-liquid, can be "healthier" and "safer" particularly, if I am cutting out artificial sweeteners and synthetic/chemical flavorings from my FOOD, it only makes sense to do it in my VAPE too, right? BUT. I've also read that it can be LESS safe! Something about fruit lipids or organic compounds harming lungs MORE than their synthetic counterparts? I've read articles with "warnings" like "Don't fall for organic e-liquid, it's less safe than non organic!" ...but I've read the opposite too! GAH!

Any one with any insight, could you let me know?

Also, let me state I am not saying non organic is bad. I have a bit of anxiety so I am always worrying I will offend someone! I know a lot of people get snooty or what ever about things like this, I have a lot of friends who only eat organic and shop at health food stores and get real "elitist" attitudes like they are better than everyone because they are all fancy and health conscious. Not my bag! I like to "live and let live" SO I am hoping not to offend any one who doesn't like organic by my questions and assumptions that it might be better.

Also, if not Organic, how is Vaporfi? I like that they show their lab reports and have stated that their e-liquid is "Better than Food-Grade - Our E-Liquid flavorings are specifically made to be inhaled, they are a step beyond “food grade,” and they have been GRAS approved." and all that. I've read horror stories of people using e-liquid that wasn't the safest, so basically I am wanting to use the "safest". I use "quotes" because I know this stuff isn't proven entirely but you know what I mean MUCH safer than analogs!

Still would like organic best, I think, but the fruit lipid thing is freaking me out! But maybe it's not true. Hrmmm. Again, info or insight would be much appreciated! Just looking for highest quality e-liquid with the least amount of chemicals or at least, chemicals that are better than others. Thanks!

PS If the lipid thing isn't worrisome, how do organic e-liquids TASTE?

 

[Vapntime]

You might find some more info here, but I think you are already on to it... ORGANIC or NATURAL Juice Supplier List | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Wow1420]

I like that they show their lab reports and have stated that their e-liquid is "Better than Food-Grade - Our E-Liquid flavorings are specifically made to be inhaled, they are a step beyond “food grade,” and they have been GRAS approved."

Well, there is no list of flavorings that are GRAS for inhalation, only GRAS for use in food and beverage. Some of the flavoring companies are testing with vaping in mind, and they're doing a decent job at disclosing, but they're a long ways from being able to assure us that everything we're using is truly safe for inhalation.

We don't know what long term inhalation of any flavorings will do. 7 or 8 years of vaping history says so far, so good, other than specific allergies individuals may have. But will the story be the same in another 10 or 20 years, especially with increasing wattage and higher volume vaping?

Personally, my choice is to use the least amount of flavoring that I'm satisfied with. I started gradually lowering flavoring percent in my DIY. The more I got used to low flavoring, the more I developed a real dislike for heavy flavor. Most commercial liquid now tastes over-powering to the point I'd mix a few drops of it in with a tank of unflavored. For the past couple of months, I've mostly used completely unflavored. Although I do keep one tank filled with a light menthol to use at times.

 

[blujess]

Thank you for the replies! I actually contacted Virgin Vapor and got a reply from their customer service team pretty quickly. Surprising since it's a weekend. But any way, here is what they sent me as a reply:

"I have not heard anything personally regarding the lipids issue, but I am checking with our team. I have listed some information about our e-liquids below that might be helpful.

Our e-liquids do not contain formaldehyde, none of them, for any reason, you can be confident of that.

Regarding the information I've seen out there, these reports floating around out there are from testing of artificial flavoring in mostly PG bases and were tested at extremely high heat. The ones I have personally read seem to have been paid for or sponsored by the large tobacco companies, which makes me wonder about their veracity. Whatever the case, happily, they don't pertain to our organic products.

I can be certain of none of these are in any of our organic e-liquids, Diacetyl, diacetyl analogues, Acetoin, Acetyl Propionyl, 2,3-Pentanedione, diethylene glycol, any ketone, aldehyde, or hexane (along with the analysis noted here Frequently Asked Questions | Virgin Vapor | Electronic Cigarette Organic e-Liquid | Electronic Cigarettes). We have not tested for everything, so can not be certain of absolutely all concerns. however, we are currently working with AEMSA, the American E-liquid Manufacturing Standards Association, and have a number of lab tests upcoming. We are in the process of becoming certified by AEMSA and they are helping guide us through the process so we should have lab reports upcoming. We do not have a general MSDS, each and every flavor we have created is individually certified and not all flavorings are created in the same place, so each flavor would have to be inquired about individually. In general our flavorings have the fruit, nut, plant, flower, etc. named as the flavor obviously; the Virgin line organic ethyl alcohol (used to process/create the essence/concentrate/suspend the flavoring), Absolute line, no alcohol, flavors as in the Virgin line coming from the actual nut, fruit, etc. As mixed with VG base (very carefully sourced Palm Glycerin Ingredient Spotlight: Virgin Vapor Vegetable Glycerin | Virgin Vapor | Electronic Cigarette Organic e-Liquid | Electronic Cigarettes) and finally distilled water. Simply put, the flavor IS the plant, flower, fruit, etc. listed and the base. If you choose PG, then Propylene Glycol, but ONLY if YOU choose this, never unless requested. Our flavors are steam extracted and/or extracted in organic ethyl alcohol, there is no chemical residue left behind from the extraction process.

All of our raw materials have been tested for these and many other compounds by a third-party Certified Lab. There are currently no regulations that require we test for these compounds. However, as a member of the AEMSA trade association, we agreed to and have tested each individual ingredient that goes into our flavorings and have Certificates of Analysis proving that our raw materials do not contain these compounds. Over the course of 2015 we will begin testing our finished products so that we are able to provide Certificates of Analysis for each finished product, should the FDA require we do so. At this time there are no regulations that require we provide these reports, and therefore we have not published them. Our raw material testing results are proprietary.

We are currently awaiting final regulations from the FDA, regarding testing and reporting requirements. Should the FDA require we provide Certificates of Analysis for all of our flavors, and require that we test for these compounds and provide those results to consumers, we will absolutely do so, when it becomes law.

Please let me know if you have any questions by replying to this response.

Thank you for contacting Virgin Vapor!

Warm wishes,

Angel

Virgin Vapor Customer Service Team"​

I have to say I am pretty satisfied with that response so far, they took the time to explain everything and provide tons of information. On a weekend no less.
SO I went ahead and bought a few bottles of their e-liquid. Like, 6 actually lol. HEY I wanted a free t-shirt haha. But I got 10 ml and had a coupon so if I hate them it wasn't some huge investment. And then, if for nothing else but a thank you for the quick and detailed reply, yes I'll try your product lol.
But I figured, I have seen a lot of YouTube reviews on their e-liquid and lots of folks are saying that their flavors are VERY "hit or miss" so I wanted to try several instead of just 1 or 2 in case I ended up with the "miss" flavors. I ordered "bed of roses" too, mostly because I am so curious. Never vaped floral. I imagine it's either awful, or incredible, and probably nothing in between.

I will let you know what I think when I get them, though might not be for a while since I read especially with VV you should let them sit a while in a dark cabinet to "steep" or "cure" or what ever. Some say caps off but I have 3 mischievous cats who never have but could probably break into my cabinets if they wanted to and that just gets all my nope lol. Plus I got the non alcohol base so there's no alcohol to evaporate.

Currently, I am vaping Totally Wicked e-liquid. Honestly, I AM satisfied with the taste, nic, throat hit, all that....and their customer service is excellent, and they really take care of their customers, at least in my experience. Even with the cheapest shipping my orders come in like 2-3 days and I'm not near FL where they are so they're awfully fast. I love their weekly yo-yo, and they have been around a long time, too. Husband has been vaping TW since like 2009 or so. They were the first company I tried years ago when I first attempted to quit analogs but I made the stupid mistake of buying the most advanced vape possible, thinking it would be the best so it must work for me to quit cigs....wrong. Being so inexperienced I had no idea how to operate the thing, I was like "WHY IS THIS DIGITAL, WILL IT WAKE ME UP IN THE MORNING, DOES IT HAVE EMAIL, WTF IS THIS, I DON'T GET IT, CAN I JUST VAPE IT, WHY THE FLASHY LIGHTS, OMG I HATE IT NOW" lol. That was inexperienced vaper me and I just threw the thing in a drawer and went back to analogs.
Learned my lesson, I went with a middle of the road vape, I got the e-lectron L which is still variable voltage and for "advanced" users but not as advanced as the crazy elaborate digital ones my husband and most of you probably use I'll get there, though. I really love the e-lectron and it's perfect for me for right now.

Any way, so I AM happy with TW e-liquid in those regards but I figured while I'm experimenting, why not try organic? It's not like I thought TW was really bad or anything (actually I liked them because they've been around a long time and seem really legit) but I just wanted to see if getting rid of artificial things might be "healthier".

Also, TW comes in plastic bottles, which I never thought anything of until I started reading that glass is supposedly safer/healthier because there's no risk of leaching anything from plastics into your e-liquid. I guess they used to be glass but now are plastic. VV is glass and I wonder if that truly is "safer". How ever, the advantage of plastic IMO is that there's less chance of breaking.

The only concern I have is though they've been around a long time and are great with customers I wonder about the e-liquid in terms of chemicals and purity. Sure it tastes great to me and is strong enough and throat hit is good but is it tested to be "safe" (you know what I mean) in terms of...well, the above mentioned chemicals. Vaporfi, for example, shows their lab reports. Unfortunately I'm not a chemist so I don't know d*ck about how to read them. But it's also alarmingly transparent...like, they're REALLY trying to prove something...maybe too much? So idk about Vaporfi. TW is where I'm at right now. And waiting on VV.

Sigh. So much to learn!

Any way that's where I'm at! Again I'll update some time when I try VV. Any one have any recommendations on what they find to be the purest/tested to be free of bad stuff/good quality control/etc let me know!
PS Sorry this was soooo long

 

[Nate5700]

Thanks for sharing your experience, I'm curious to see how this works out for you.

On the glass vs. plastic thing, going strictly on what I've heard, glass doesn't allow steeping to take place nearly as well as plastic does, which is probably why it was suggested that you steep in glass with the caps off. I know with plastic steeping will still happen with the cap on, but I guess with glass it's a different story. Something about the material allowing contact with air being required for steeping.

 

[blujess]

Nate, thanks for the info, that makes a lot of sense, so if I can get away with doing it when I'm home here for a few hours caps off (I know it's supposed to be days or weeks probably but that's the best I can do lol), maybe, but I worry too much leaving it, even in say an open top shoe box in a sealed cabinet...my cats occasionally paw at the cabinets so I just, ahh obsessive paranoia lol. But if I'm home maybe I can feel okay that I'm around when they're caps off. But I did buy the 50/50 pg vg line from them and their blog says "A few steeping tips: in my experience, selecting a blend that contains PG can lessen the need for steeping because propylene glycol is a better flavor carrier than VG. 100% VG e-liquids will benefit more from a couple extra days to steep." so whereas I got 50% pg it might not even need it. Do Virgin Vapor Organic E-liquids Need Steeping? | Virgin Vapor | Electronic Cigarette Organic e-Liquid | Electronic Cigarettes hopefully
Reeeeeal curious about that bed of roses flavor. Never even THOUGHT of vaping rose or florals before. I also snagged up some "lemon rosewater" which is going to be interesting as well.

On the plastic thing, I did read this, unrelated to steeping but related to why I am thinking glass is better for ME most likely: Why Package in Glass Instead of Plastic? | Virgin Vapor | Electronic Cigarette Organic e-Liquid | Electronic Cigarettes
"
BPA is a chemical that, in the presence of heat or hard use, leaches out of plastic containers. This is why you may have heard that it’s not a good idea to drink out of plastic water bottles and to never leave your plastic water bottle in a hot car. This is because BPA leaches out 55 times faster than normal when exposed to hot liquids.

BPA acts as an estrogen mimic. That means that it binds to the same receptors in the body that estrogen binds to. Studies have shown that BPA can promote human breast cancer cell growth as well as cause decreased sperm count and reduced fertility in rats. BPA has also been linked to prostate cancer, altered menstrual cycles and diabetes."

Again, I am fairly new to all of this, but this is just some stuff I was concerned with, personally. The estrogen and BPA thing freaks me out because, well, sorry to be TMI but having estrogen sensitive reproductive issues any way, as a woman, and a family history of breast cancer and ovarian cancer it worries me.

If I am to have this habit I suppose I just want to be educated and such about it, and do the right things for myself. But with my current plastic bottles I just order light and use them quicker so they don't sit in the plastic long term, and oh my tank is glass so that helps, I know some people have plastic tanks. Again, this is ME....ME lol, not everyone else, I am not here to be discouraging others from using certain e-liquids or plastics or what ever. Plus I'm a "newb" any way so like, I have no standing even if I was trying to convince people of things lol I'm just finding all of this really interesting!

 

[blujess]

Oh but PS I will probably post a review when I use the VV. Seriously, I have yet to find any neutral reviews. It seems like people either love it and rave about it or just hate it to death. I HOPE I love it. My husband hasn't tried VV but he said he tried another brand of organic e-liquid and said he hated it. Granted, that was 100% vg and husband says he's a high pg guy. I didn't even tell him I ordered VV so I think I'll just one day be like "Hey honey, try this, no I can't tell you what it is, it's a surprise" lol and if he goes "Heyyyy that's really nice....what brand is that? I want some of my own!" or "EIW this is horrible, what rancid treachery is this??!" lol then I have a second unbiased opinion to share along with my own. Husband guinea pig FTW