Ugh... sorry. My impression of cinnamon flavors is that they tend to be pretty damn strong. I can only imagine how that must taste. I can picture it totally killing my tastebuds for quite awhile.
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Just got my order. Pretty quick. I really like the 'dark raz' flavoring. I got a 60cc bottle. I plan on adding to the open source juice I have which I would've preferred a stronger flavor of and then to make my own.
Ingredients: natural &/or artificial flavoring, USP Kosher Grade PG, Alcohol, &/or Ethyl Alcohol. Artificial color free. DA/AP tested.
On a side note, I ordered diacetyl free organic raspberry flavoring from Nature's Flavors over a month ago & its still "processing." I've emailed them a few times and each time am assured it will be sent out asap but they're swamped. Whenever it comes it comes, but al least now I have something to tide me over for awhile.
I am all for "lowered risk" vaping as possible which is why it is good to do research if you are serious about it.
Both of the quotes are from Kurt, a PhD chemist with 30 years of advanced training in physical, organic, biophysics, bio-inorganic, and theoretical research and teaching. He is co-author on the Farsalinos DA/AP publication (Kistler) and deeply involved with all things chemistry in the e-liquid industry, mostly as a consultant for AEMSA.
Is the whole scandal with da and ap overblown? Some numbers inside
"You cannot make this conclusion. Natural extract flavors are often full of diacetyl, which is a naturally occurring compound in diary and some fruits. Plus they can contain a lot of other things I personally would not want to inhale (lipids, proteins, polysaccharides, etc). They cost more because they are more expensive to make than mixing synthetic flavor compounds...or they charge what their market will tolerate, or both.
Plus, the term "natural flavor" does not have the definition most people think. It only means it is a compound that is also found in the food. Isoamyl acetate is a natural banana flavor, but it is synthesized in a lab."
About Cinnamon Flavoring | E-Cigarette Forum
"But it is known that cinnamaldehyde is dangerous to the lungs. Don't have the links at my disposal now, but it is known. And there is a big difference to me between leaching plasticisers, which leads to cracking of plastic and makes you vape plasticisers too, and etching plastic, which is a breakdown of the polymer itself. Plus the lungs have their own surfactant, and inhaling others, like citrus oils, can disrupt that important barrier, if not dissolve lipid bilayers, as in cells. Lots of bio stuff dissolves in them, as well as some polymer compounds, as Katya said.
But, hey, for some these flavors are just too important, and thus vaping them, regardless of risk, is rationalized to be imperative. They are all legal, and people can vape whatever they want. Yes, I am a PhD chemist with 30 years of advanced training in physical, organic, biophysics, bio-inorganic, and theoretical research and teaching. I personally will not vape these oils, for the many reasons I and Katya have stated, based on my knowledge of them chemically, and the tissues they interact with. I don't think any of these are implicated in irreversible lung damage, like that caused by diacetyl, but there could be incremental and sustained lung impairment, which I thought was what we were trying to avoid by vaping."
Both of the quotes are from Kurt, a PhD chemist with 30 years of advanced training in physical, organic, biophysics, bio-inorganic, and theoretical research and teaching. He is co-author on the Farsalinos DA/AP publication (Kistler) and deeply involved with all things chemistry in the e-liquid industry, mostly as a consultant for AEMSA.
Is the whole scandal with da and ap overblown? Some numbers inside
"You cannot make this conclusion. Natural extract flavors are often full of diacetyl, which is a naturally occurring compound in diary and some fruits. Plus they can contain a lot of other things I personally would not want to inhale (lipids, proteins, polysaccharides, etc). They cost more because they are more expensive to make than mixing synthetic flavor compounds...or they charge what their market will tolerate, or both.
Plus, the term "natural flavor" does not have the definition most people think. It only means it is a compound that is also found in the food. Isoamyl acetate is a natural banana flavor, but it is synthesized in a lab."
About Cinnamon Flavoring | E-Cigarette Forum
"But it is known that cinnamaldehyde is dangerous to the lungs. Don't have the links at my disposal now, but it is known. And there is a big difference to me between leaching plasticisers, which leads to cracking of plastic and makes you vape plasticisers too, and etching plastic, which is a breakdown of the polymer itself. Plus the lungs have their own surfactant, and inhaling others, like citrus oils, can disrupt that important barrier, if not dissolve lipid bilayers, as in cells. Lots of bio stuff dissolves in them, as well as some polymer compounds, as Katya said.
But, hey, for some these flavors are just too important, and thus vaping them, regardless of risk, is rationalized to be imperative. They are all legal, and people can vape whatever they want. Yes, I am a PhD chemist with 30 years of advanced training in physical, organic, biophysics, bio-inorganic, and theoretical research and teaching. I personally will not vape these oils, for the many reasons I and Katya have stated, based on my knowledge of them chemically, and the tissues they interact with. I don't think any of these are implicated in irreversible lung damage, like that caused by diacetyl, but there could be incremental and sustained lung impairment, which I thought was what we were trying to avoid by vaping."
ˆˆˆAwesome post Truli!!! Thank you! This is why I've steered clear of creamy flavors. It is disappointing that some fruity flavorings can also culpable.
When I placed my order with nature's flavors, I saw a huge variety of many flavors. Some were deemed organic (with a USDA Certified Organic stamp of approval) some were not. Some were identified as being diacetyl free, others were not. I happened to find 2 raspberry flavorings which were deemed both "diacetyl free" & "organic." Can't wait to try em out.
So cinnamon & citrus are also out. I love the work these doctors are doing. Ignorance is bliss, but to actually know one way or the other what the effects are is vital.
When I placed my order with nature's flavors, I saw a huge variety of many flavors. Some were deemed organic (with a USDA Certified Organic stamp of approval) some were not. Some were identified as being diacetyl free, others were not. I happened to find 2 raspberry flavorings which were deemed both "diacetyl free" & "organic." Can't wait to try em out.
So cinnamon & citrus are also out. I love the work these doctors are doing. Ignorance is bliss, but to actually know one way or the other what the effects are is vital.
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But are they AP free and independently tested nj, sorry to play devils advocate but this is what keeps me away from those flavorings which I have considered.
Extremely good point since AP was designed to replace DA so manufacturers could say "DA free" as is the case with this stuff.
I wonder how much it costs to have a sample tested at vapor shark? I'm sure they'd only need a small sample. I just emailed them asking. I'll post their response.
I wonder how much it costs to have a sample tested at vapor shark? I'm sure they'd only need a small sample. I just emailed them asking. I'll post their response.
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I found this lab which charges $40 to test nicotine & $60 for DA, AP & acetoin or $80 for both per sample! Ugh. Nicotine Testing and Analysis. Terponix - Fast, accurate, and cost effective nicotine analysis for the e-Cigarette industry.
I also emailed enthalpy (the independent lab NicVape uses) asking for info on whether consumers could submit samples for testing and at what cost. Project Oriented Analytical Lab
I also emailed enthalpy (the independent lab NicVape uses) asking for info on whether consumers could submit samples for testing and at what cost. Project Oriented Analytical Lab
Enthalpy's response:
"Nick,
Thank you for the inquiry. Most manufacturers are testing either pure flavors and/or final products for Acetoin, Diacetyl and 2,3-Pentanedione (Acetyl propionyl) at this time. The detection limit is ~1.00 ppm by GC/MS as the cost is $150/sample ($125 for submissions of >10) + $15 per certification report if needed. Other harmful constituents in final e-liquids that we test for are Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines (TSNAs) and Nicotine concentration confirmation. The TSNAs are $150/sample and Nicotine confirmations are $50/sample."
"Nick,
Thank you for the inquiry. Most manufacturers are testing either pure flavors and/or final products for Acetoin, Diacetyl and 2,3-Pentanedione (Acetyl propionyl) at this time. The detection limit is ~1.00 ppm by GC/MS as the cost is $150/sample ($125 for submissions of >10) + $15 per certification report if needed. Other harmful constituents in final e-liquids that we test for are Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines (TSNAs) and Nicotine concentration confirmation. The TSNAs are $150/sample and Nicotine confirmations are $50/sample."
Yea, I think at this time it is only nicvape and flavorart that are supplying test results for DIY flavors (I might be wrong) also there are the vendors here for juice: The Diketone free tested vendors list
I use Nude Nicotine for my base, they test for Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines (TSNAs). They also test there VG and PG for impurities. I vape unflavored 50% of the time and add a few drops of nicvapes DIY flavors (which I have only recently found) the rest of the time. I started out vaping only 100% VG and certified organic or 'natural' juices for nearly two years... cost me a small fortune to get them here to Aus. I became aware of the whole 'organic' diacetyl issue during that time, I also found out that 100% VG was giving me bad asthma. So, I decided it was time to vape anything
ignoring my strict requirements. The only positive that came out of that was I found out that by vaping a little PG (around 20%) would ease my asthma. However, I also noticed a decline in lung function and a dry cough. I was vaping juices loaded with diketones at the time. I'm not going to say that's what caused it but I did become very serious about diketone free juices and my options after that. Sorry for my vaping life story...
I use Nude Nicotine for my base, they test for Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines (TSNAs). They also test there VG and PG for impurities. I vape unflavored 50% of the time and add a few drops of nicvapes DIY flavors (which I have only recently found) the rest of the time. I started out vaping only 100% VG and certified organic or 'natural' juices for nearly two years... cost me a small fortune to get them here to Aus. I became aware of the whole 'organic' diacetyl issue during that time, I also found out that 100% VG was giving me bad asthma. So, I decided it was time to vape anything
ignoring my strict requirements. The only positive that came out of that was I found out that by vaping a little PG (around 20%) would ease my asthma. However, I also noticed a decline in lung function and a dry cough. I was vaping juices loaded with diketones at the time. I'm not going to say that's what caused it but I did become very serious about diketone free juices and my options after that. Sorry for my vaping life story...
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@YoursTruli: I am aware of the risks of vaping cinnamon flavoring. I am also in favor of low risk vaping, but I had to try a cinnamon vape at least once. Thanks for looking out .
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Just got off the phone with nature's flavors. They called to apologize for my month old order which they couldn't fill. Luckily, I placed another order a week ago which I was told they're shipping out today.
While I had them on the phone I asked about AP. The assured me that their certified organic DA free line is also AP free. They said it is kept pure and free from any additives.
While I had them on the phone I asked about AP. The assured me that their certified organic DA free line is also AP free. They said it is kept pure and free from any additives.
"Pure" and free from "any" additives ? I call BS, merely marketing tactics to suck in the GMO croud .........................
Lol! Perhaps. They'd be able to improve their marketing to such crowds if they actually put it in writing/labeled it rather than finding it out by word of mouth from an employee. It would also be nice if they could substantiate these claims with lab reports. I wonder if you can label a product USDA Certified Organic containing non-organic ingredients. This might answer that.
You can label it anything you want when there's no "USDA" regulating / inspecting the juice for inhalation use...........
Yes, thats true, but I was talking about a flavoring company. They're not an e-juice company. They sell flavorings which are meant for human consumption and therefore are regulated by USDA & FDA.
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Since when was food and beverage flavoring FDA/USDA approval the same as human inhalation, here's one without the "BS" "all natural no certificate, they are a flavoring company as well with real certificates, 3rd party testing E-Cig Flavors - FlavourArt | EcigExpress
So guys whats everyones favorite all Organic E Juice company ??Virgin Vapor, Kind Juice is mine.
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