Just wanted to comment that the active member count has skyrocketed since I joined at the first of Nov. We now have over 1000 active members, and had 250+ people logged in AT THE SAME TIME today. Pretty impressive amount of daily traffic for a forum. Also a clear indication that many new e-smokers are converted each day, and with this type of growth it seems unlikely that we will remain under the radar of the US and UK governments for much longer so I suggest anyone who doesn't wish to be caught with their pants down (like our poor Aussie friends) make preparations now. A backup USB passthrough and a couple extra atomizers seems to be a relatively cheap emergency kit since the atomizers are pretty durable and the USB power avoids the possibility of degrading battery quality. Just a heads up~
Our numbers are growing..
- Thread starter Satire
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I think if we have anything to be worried about, it is the ban of the liquid, not the devices.
It would be kind of like drug paraphernalia. It is extremely easy to buy and possess smoking devices for using illicit controlled substances. It is not, however, leagal to posses these devices along with the controlled substances or if there is evidence that a controled substance has been smoked within the device.
The devices that we use to vape will be quite legal within the US as long as the FCC deems that they don't interfere or are able to accept interference from other devices.
The problem with be with the liquids and cartridges. The single most concern in the US for me is the FDA getting involved. They can come in and snuff out the vaping scene by making it impossible to get liquids and cartridges. If local or state governments acted first, then there is a chance that contacting congressmen and senators might be somewhat effective in persuading them that it is better than smoking. These appeals would fall on deaf hears with regards to the FDA though.
If any catostrophic accidents happen where a child gets a hold of a bottle of liquid and drinks it, or a vaper gets carried away and OD's on the liquid, then I am sure the FDA will get involved to try to "protect" the public.
It only takes one or a couple of idiots to change things for everyone.
It would be kind of like drug paraphernalia. It is extremely easy to buy and possess smoking devices for using illicit controlled substances. It is not, however, leagal to posses these devices along with the controlled substances or if there is evidence that a controled substance has been smoked within the device.
The devices that we use to vape will be quite legal within the US as long as the FCC deems that they don't interfere or are able to accept interference from other devices.
The problem with be with the liquids and cartridges. The single most concern in the US for me is the FDA getting involved. They can come in and snuff out the vaping scene by making it impossible to get liquids and cartridges. If local or state governments acted first, then there is a chance that contacting congressmen and senators might be somewhat effective in persuading them that it is better than smoking. These appeals would fall on deaf hears with regards to the FDA though.
If any catostrophic accidents happen where a child gets a hold of a bottle of liquid and drinks it, or a vaper gets carried away and OD's on the liquid, then I am sure the FDA will get involved to try to "protect" the public.
It only takes one or a couple of idiots to change things for everyone.
I'm in the very first stages of collecting rn4072 atomizers and usb passthroughs, and riskee yuice. It's strange, i smoke the e-cig, and i feel the e-cig is good (better than cigarettes in almost every way) but if i bring the e-cig somewhere and show it to people, then they want it, and will buy it and make a big deal out of it.
Really, by promoting it i feel as though i am endangering it at the same time, but the thing is just so damn charismatic. My friends see it and go, hey what is that, i can't hide it from them because it's obviously not a real cigarette. So i have to show them... i mean they're my friends, and of course i would WANT to show them, but by showing them i am endangering the whole thing too!
But yeah, i should have a few hundred ml of riskee yuice collected before the hammer drops, or at least, i hope to.
Really, by promoting it i feel as though i am endangering it at the same time, but the thing is just so damn charismatic. My friends see it and go, hey what is that, i can't hide it from them because it's obviously not a real cigarette. So i have to show them... i mean they're my friends, and of course i would WANT to show them, but by showing them i am endangering the whole thing too!
But yeah, i should have a few hundred ml of riskee yuice collected before the hammer drops, or at least, i hope to.
I wonder what we could do to help ensure our new way of life is secured? I don't feel like hoarding this stuff because in the end it's only going to last so long. If anyone is going to step in and stop it I feel the tobacco companies are going to play a big part in that. Maybe we should get them involved because they have the money and the resources to produce, sell, and deal with politicians.
Tobacco companies could lobby with congressmen, but congressmen can be contacted by consituants and persuaded to act on the consituants behalf.
The FDA, on the other hand, doesn't have to worry about voters. With one stroke of a pen, they can shut down unapproved methods of delivery of nicotine.
What would aggrevate me to no end is the fact that ciggarettes would still be widely available and accepted, but our choice for an alternative would be squashed.
The FDA, on the other hand, doesn't have to worry about voters. With one stroke of a pen, they can shut down unapproved methods of delivery of nicotine.
What would aggrevate me to no end is the fact that ciggarettes would still be widely available and accepted, but our choice for an alternative would be squashed.
I don't see it being permanently outlawed, but it is very likely that they will shut down the websites and declare the liquid a health hazard or un-approved, un-tested healthcare product which they can stop the distribution of (the sites openly selling unscheduled psychedelic chemicals for human consumption were shut down with threats of legal action a few years ago, even though the products weren't illegal at the time, AND it is well within the ), and then there will be a period of testing the stuff for safety and then applying for FDA approval to sell, all of which is likely to take a decent amount of time. I was simply suggesting having a backup to ride that out with. There is no way they will let this quickly-growing market go untapped (some retail stores have reportedly been selling them already in isolated stores), but at the same time the e-liquids being imported from China, and the ones cooked up in kitchen setups and sold online are at high risk of government intervention, likely cutting off or disrupting (at least temporarily) the flow of unapproved e-cig hardware too.
After watching for the FDA to approve some cancer treatments and them making statements that testing would take 5-10 years in a lot of cases, I'd say if the FDA takes this over, we can forget it. The tobacco companies could try to take control of it but that wouldn't exempt them from the FDA either, I don't believe, since it isn't tobacco.
The reasons stated for them killing the nicotine lollipop are the same ones that will kill e-smoking.
This is exactly what it will say, I predict:
Today FDA issued warning letters to three pharmacies that are selling "nicotine lollipops" and/or nicotine "lip balm" over the Internet. The letters inform the pharmacies that FDA has found their nicotine lollipops and lip balm to be illegal. Based on statements from the pharmacies' Internet sites, the products are promoted as aids for smoking cessation or to treat nicotine addiction.
FDA is concerned about the health risk of these products because the appear to be compounded and dispensed without a doctor's prescription, contain a form of nicotine that is not used in FDA-approved smoking cessation products, and because these candy-like products present a risk of accidental use by children.
The products cited in the letters include compounds incorporating nicotine salicylate, natural sweeteners, and flavorings in a sugar-free base and are available in ½ mg., 1 mg., 2 mg., and 4 mg. dosages. The claims on the websites include that the products help alleviate the "hand to mouth fixation" associated with smoking and are a "convenient, tasty way" to replace the cigarette habit. After investigating and carefully assessing these websites, FDA has determined that the pharmacies' nicotine lollipops and nicotine lip balm are intended for use as "drugs" and appear to be illegal for the following reasons:
They are compounded and dispensed without a doctor's prescription.
They are unapproved new drugs which need, but do not have, FDA approval.
They are made from a drug substance, nicotine salicylate, which is not permitted for use by pharmacists in compounding drugs. The FDA-approved smoking cessation products are made from different forms of nicotine.
They are misbranded because their labeling does not have adequate directions for the uses for which they are being offered and does not have adequate warnings against use by children.
The reasons stated for them killing the nicotine lollipop are the same ones that will kill e-smoking.
This is exactly what it will say, I predict:
Today FDA issued warning letters to three pharmacies that are selling "nicotine lollipops" and/or nicotine "lip balm" over the Internet. The letters inform the pharmacies that FDA has found their nicotine lollipops and lip balm to be illegal. Based on statements from the pharmacies' Internet sites, the products are promoted as aids for smoking cessation or to treat nicotine addiction.
FDA is concerned about the health risk of these products because the appear to be compounded and dispensed without a doctor's prescription, contain a form of nicotine that is not used in FDA-approved smoking cessation products, and because these candy-like products present a risk of accidental use by children.
The products cited in the letters include compounds incorporating nicotine salicylate, natural sweeteners, and flavorings in a sugar-free base and are available in ½ mg., 1 mg., 2 mg., and 4 mg. dosages. The claims on the websites include that the products help alleviate the "hand to mouth fixation" associated with smoking and are a "convenient, tasty way" to replace the cigarette habit. After investigating and carefully assessing these websites, FDA has determined that the pharmacies' nicotine lollipops and nicotine lip balm are intended for use as "drugs" and appear to be illegal for the following reasons:
They are compounded and dispensed without a doctor's prescription.
They are unapproved new drugs which need, but do not have, FDA approval.
They are made from a drug substance, nicotine salicylate, which is not permitted for use by pharmacists in compounding drugs. The FDA-approved smoking cessation products are made from different forms of nicotine.
They are misbranded because their labeling does not have adequate directions for the uses for which they are being offered and does not have adequate warnings against use by children.
First off I love biscuits, just wanted to get that out in the open.
Second off, I totally agree with this statement above.
What I don't get though, is we know alot of people have used it to quit smoking. We can't call it a cessation device becasue it hasn't been tested and fda approved as such...Well??? Why don't we get it approved? Beat them to the punch. We have preliminarily tested it ourselves, now get it scientifically tested and FDA approved and then we don't have to worry about the Bans. And if the "nicotine" from other countries is a problem, then get a Factory to start making the nicotine within FDA guidelines like tobacco companies. Then if we have regulated fluid, regulated devices, and start getting the juice carried in every gas station/store like cigarettes we could get around the smoking bans, not worry about it being banned, and save millions of lives....
Just my opinion...
Josh
Just my opinion...
Josh
A ban on selling them until they are approved, a 10-15 year period while they are being tested. A huge cost increase once the pharmaceutical companies are involved, just like other NRTs.
Best to leave it as an alternative to smoking.
I think if they would admit the nicotine is extracted from tobacco and there is tobacco extract in them that could put them under BATF jurisdiction and out of reach of the FDA. The FDA tried grabbing tobacco and congress stopped them.
Since there is no law taxing them they would fall in the same tax free for now hole that cigars and pipe tobacco is in.
Tobacco is not FDA, it is not a food or a drug.
If you look in the law and ecig, there was a post from around august, a few of the eastern european countries declared them as NRT's and require you to go to the doctor to get a script for them.
I think it might be in the Thailand thread?
That's another problem. Although many (most?) of the NRT in the US are without a prescription now. They're just not priced like it.
Couldn't have said it better myself, if we try to get it approved as a NRT it will take years (you can't prove something can permanently break an addiction in a couple of weeks, nor can you prove long-term safety with a test lasting only a few months, they would have to do studies on animals being exposed for years), and when/if it is approved, the price will be through the roof (more than most smokers would be willing to spend anyway). Only shot at avoiding this would be to firmly state that it is not a stop-smoking device, just an alternative way to deliver tobacco (or tobacco extract, which nicotine isolated from tobacco is). If it is declared as a medicine, NRT, or even a drug delivery system, they will have our asses for breakfast. However, if it is just another way to consume tobacco, then I don't see how they could have a say in the matter without trying to take on the tobacco companies (good luck on that one).
If and when they ban the liquid, what will happen to Johnson Creek which is FDA approved?
Hi Kate!
"Johnson Creek Original Smoke Juice is fully registered with the U.S. Food & Drug Administration pursuant to Section 305 of the United States Public Health and Bioterrorism Act of 2002, P.L. 107-188" This is the footer of their page found at Johnson Creek Original Smoke Juice - The Best E-Liquid in the World - Made Right Here in America
They also provide a photocopy of their FDA approval certificate on the same page.
"Johnson Creek Original Smoke Juice is fully registered with the U.S. Food & Drug Administration pursuant to Section 305 of the United States Public Health and Bioterrorism Act of 2002, P.L. 107-188" This is the footer of their page found at Johnson Creek Original Smoke Juice - The Best E-Liquid in the World - Made Right Here in America
They also provide a photocopy of their FDA approval certificate on the same page.
Thanks Lacey.
That's the first I've heard of the FDA having anything to do with liquid nicotine or delivery devices apart from false claims.
Mind you JC are dodgy with some of their other marketing tactics so I wouldn't be surprised if they're suggesting approval for liquid nicotine when it's not.
That's the first I've heard of the FDA having anything to do with liquid nicotine or delivery devices apart from false claims.
Mind you JC are dodgy with some of their other marketing tactics so I wouldn't be surprised if they're suggesting approval for liquid nicotine when it's not.
FDA/CFSAN - Public Health Security and Bioterrorism Preparedness and Response Act of 2002 (PL107-188) - so does that mean they have only registered with the FDA as a place that makes food and other type items so they can be checked into for cleanliness, but not necessarily the product itself?
interesting. after some conversations with them, we were under the impression that this was FDA approval. apparently, i need to do some more investigating. Damn it... now bed must hold off for a wee bit. If I find anything, obviously I will share my findings.
Thanks!
interesting. after some conversations with them, we were under the impression that this was FDA approval. apparently, i need to do some more investigating. Damn it... now bed must hold off for a wee bit. If I find anything, obviously I will share my findings.
Thanks!
- Status
Similar threads
