whats the opinion on these batts? I've been spending the extra $ on AW's but....
Panasonic Batteries?
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I know Sailorman speaks highly of their 18650s and that would be good enough for me...
batteries worst to best:
ultrafires
trustfires
aw
Pannys
I own all of the above and the pannys blow the others away.
They're the new kid on the block. On paper they look real good. Time will tell if that is true. So go ahead and get some, and report back in about 6 months so I will know if that's what I should get next time I need bats.
Well AW uses Panasonics for their 2900 and 3100s (actually any 2900 or 3100 you see is a re-wrap). The mAh is exaggerated as far as vaping is concerned. As far as performance, middling at best.
It's hard to figure how their reputation has grown so much on these forums. Their battery division has been losing money for years and they have been dumping cells into the loose cell market at an alarming rate. Even in the EV (electric vehicle) automotive market for lithium ion batteries, they are at the bottom of the list. Two American companies even place higher. I tried to find out if they had a presence in the lucrative cordless tool market, seems they don't.
I do love all the anecdotal evidence that is always bandied about to their 'greatness'.
This is an interesting test.
I've marked with the red dots when they hit 3.5 and 3.25V volts under load. The top cell manages almost ~2400mAh @ 3.5V while the bottom cell a rather measly ~1600.
The top cell is a Sanyo 2600 re-wrap by Xtar, the bottom an unprotected (an advantage) Panasonic 2900. The Panasonic performance is actually an embarrassment. I guess for flashlights the Panasonic will be OK.
Let's see how a China made Tenergy2600 stacks up to the Panasonic at the same 1A @3.5V.
It manages about ~2100mAh. Ouch.
Here's another more extreme 3A test, note a 1.5Ω atty pulls about ~2.4A.
In this case the poorly performing cell is an AW/Panasonic 2900 re-wrap. It should also be obvious that Pansonic's extra mAh is quite useless for vaping.
I find it interesting how much difference there is between these batteries, the Panasonics aren't even in the same league.
Let's see how a China Tenergy2600 stacks up to the AW2600 (mystery cell inside).
Now that's close, the dots are at 3.4 and 3.2V @ 2A drain (figure a 2Ω atty/cart at about ~1.8A) . The curves are so nearly identical that it looks like the AW might even be an over priced Tenergy re-wrap.
Either pay extra for 'myths' or get some good batteries.
2pcs-XTAR-18700-2600mAh-3-7V-Rechargeable-Battery-Fast-Ship-From-US-UK-stock- $15.19
Note Xtar also re-wraps a Panasonic 3100... avoid it.
Food for thought.
It's hard to figure how their reputation has grown so much on these forums. Their battery division has been losing money for years and they have been dumping cells into the loose cell market at an alarming rate. Even in the EV (electric vehicle) automotive market for lithium ion batteries, they are at the bottom of the list. Two American companies even place higher. I tried to find out if they had a presence in the lucrative cordless tool market, seems they don't.
I do love all the anecdotal evidence that is always bandied about to their 'greatness'.
This is an interesting test.
I've marked with the red dots when they hit 3.5 and 3.25V volts under load. The top cell manages almost ~2400mAh @ 3.5V while the bottom cell a rather measly ~1600.
The top cell is a Sanyo 2600 re-wrap by Xtar, the bottom an unprotected (an advantage) Panasonic 2900. The Panasonic performance is actually an embarrassment. I guess for flashlights the Panasonic will be OK.
Let's see how a China made Tenergy2600 stacks up to the Panasonic at the same 1A @3.5V.
It manages about ~2100mAh. Ouch.
Here's another more extreme 3A test, note a 1.5Ω atty pulls about ~2.4A.
In this case the poorly performing cell is an AW/Panasonic 2900 re-wrap. It should also be obvious that Pansonic's extra mAh is quite useless for vaping.
I find it interesting how much difference there is between these batteries, the Panasonics aren't even in the same league.
Let's see how a China Tenergy2600 stacks up to the AW2600 (mystery cell inside).
Now that's close, the dots are at 3.4 and 3.2V @ 2A drain (figure a 2Ω atty/cart at about ~1.8A) . The curves are so nearly identical that it looks like the AW might even be an over priced Tenergy re-wrap.
Toilet paper maybe.
Either pay extra for 'myths' or get some good batteries.
2pcs-XTAR-18700-2600mAh-3-7V-Rechargeable-Battery-Fast-Ship-From-US-UK-stock- $15.19
Note Xtar also re-wraps a Panasonic 3100... avoid it.
Food for thought.
You've just wasted a huge amount of ammo on a straw man.
Because nobody is claiming that all the Panasonics are the greatest, particularly protected and particularly in contrast to Sanyo.
There are plenty better protected batteries out there and no one's claimed otherwise, AFAIK. I certainly haven't.
Furthermore, there are a lot of cells, Sanyo specifically, that aren't easily available in the U.S. and must be ordered from Europe or some dodgy Chinese site on eBay. The Sanyo protected 800mah 14500 being just one example. I can get it from Australia or the UK, but no one in the U.S. carries it.
What has been claimed and backed up by plenty of testing, is that the safe chemistry 18650 Panasonic is better than the AW's.
Your 18700 Xtar is useless for the mods that need an 18650 IMR and that don't even accommodate the length of a protected Li-Ion.
If you'd like to show some graphs about how the Panasonic CGR18650CH stacks up against other 2000+mah IMR batteries, I'm all ears. If you can find a better performing 18650 IMR for $8 shipped in the U.S., please, do tell.
It's been done quite extensively in the Lavatube thread and the particular panasonic that is the subject of 99.9% of the talk around here has bested the AW decisively.
Because nobody is claiming that all the Panasonics are the greatest, particularly protected and particularly in contrast to Sanyo.
There are plenty better protected batteries out there and no one's claimed otherwise, AFAIK. I certainly haven't.
Furthermore, there are a lot of cells, Sanyo specifically, that aren't easily available in the U.S. and must be ordered from Europe or some dodgy Chinese site on eBay. The Sanyo protected 800mah 14500 being just one example. I can get it from Australia or the UK, but no one in the U.S. carries it.
What has been claimed and backed up by plenty of testing, is that the safe chemistry 18650 Panasonic is better than the AW's.
Your 18700 Xtar is useless for the mods that need an 18650 IMR and that don't even accommodate the length of a protected Li-Ion.
If you'd like to show some graphs about how the Panasonic CGR18650CH stacks up against other 2000+mah IMR batteries, I'm all ears. If you can find a better performing 18650 IMR for $8 shipped in the U.S., please, do tell.
It's been done quite extensively in the Lavatube thread and the particular panasonic that is the subject of 99.9% of the talk around here has bested the AW decisively.
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How about showing a few of these tests? For one it would be nice to see how these Panasonics fare against a real IMR like AW's 1600, under a heavy load. The IMRs 15C max discharge rating obviously trounces the Panasonics 10A
Here's SuperTs 2.5A test.
At what voltage does the LT want a re-charge?
Let's compare both at 3.4V, seems the mAh is identical, ~1350 and the AW true IMR ran at a higher voltage the whole time. Is this the "bested the AW decisively" of which you speak?
Does the LT drag the voltage lower than 3.4V? Is there any use for mAh after that point?As far as the Sanyo 2600 the unprotected fit just fine in the LT and they have both a PTC (for external shorts) and a CID (for overcharging protection) built in, Panasonic for some reason has not used a PTC.
For the hell of it let's flip up the the 3A Sanyo test. At the 3.4V mark it manages ~2000mAh. So at an additional 20% load it manages ~45% more mAh than the Panasonic high drain... Hmmmm
Let's say someone was using a stacked pair and decided to drag them down to 3.2V, the Sanyo hits about ~2300 (again noting the 20% additional load) while the Panasonic manages about ~1970mAh.
Good source for Panasonic batteries is good brand laptop battery if you come across discarded one. It can be dismantled. There is usually one bad battery in the pack that is the cause of the whole pack being discarded and all others are fine.
I use the Panasonic 2250mah batteries in my LT. They do good work and last a little more than a day (LT has *ECF CENSORED WORD FOR POOP* efficiency, but that's more the LT's problem than the batteries).
But I also use the xtar 18700's in my Silver Bullet. They rock for mechanical mods and unregulated mods, and if you had them in series in a VV mod, if you could find a holder they could fit in.
But I also use the xtar 18700's in my Silver Bullet. They rock for mechanical mods and unregulated mods, and if you had them in series in a VV mod, if you could find a holder they could fit in.
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