Pg/VG essential depot?

[yzer]

Glycerin USP is pharmaceutical grade glycerin. Quality standards for Glycerin USP are monitored by the FDA. The purity standard for Glycerin USP is higher than that for food grade glycerin, so Glycerin USP meets all standards for food grade as well as pharmaceutical grade glycerin. Food grade glycerin does not meet the purity standards for Glycerin USP and the purity is not monitored by the FDA.

This post explains how consumers can identify Glycerin USP. Every container of Glycerin USP must meet specific labeling requirements. If the container does not have these specific labeling features you should not assume the contents are Glycerin USP. Wait a second or three and this page will load to the correct post.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...kosher-usp-1-quart-8-99-a-2.html#post11636940

 

[Traver]

This may seem like nitpicking but if it isn't labeled exactly by USP pharmaceutical grade standard you don't know and most likely it is not pharmaceutical grade. It would be if vendor paid the extra cost for USP grade.

 

[MD_Boater]

After seeing the information in this thread, I paniced. I had just ordered 2 gallons each PG/VG from Essential Depot on 12/18.

I realize that I am a "newbie" here, and I am not trying to step on anyone's toes, but Monday afternoon I called one of my friends (high school bud) who works in the medication safety department at USP headquarters in Rockville, MD (off of Twinbrook Pkwy for those familliar with the area) and asked him if he would be able to verify the labelling requirements that were referenced here. I also asked him to let me know if he thought that the 2 Essential Depot products were safe to use for inhalation purposes. I sent him close up photos of the labels on the Essential Depot PG and VG jugs that I had received. I also sent him the text of the 2009 post by SmokeJoe containing the labeling formats.

He called me back this morning and told me that the labelling on these two products was perfectly in line with USP requirements from the standpoint of their respective monographs. All of the USP required required information was present on both labels. I asked him if he could get me a copy of the current labelling requirements, and he said that USP sets standards for products, not labels. The USP "requirements" are that the labels contain an accurate portrayal of the product information as set in the monograph for that product. After re-reading the SmokeyJoe post, I think that maybe the labelling requirements in it came from the FDA, not USP. I don't have any friends working at the FDA, so I am not able to verify it with them.

He said that any company can slap a USP designation on a product label, and they might even get away with it for a while. He also said that USP has entire groups that do nothing but research products claiming to meet USP certification standards to ensure that they do. Companies that do this eventually get caught, and they pay heavily for doing so when they do get caught.

He could not comment on "safe for inhalation", but based on the product labelling they should both be safe for all human consumption purposes. It's a tremendous relief to know that I did not buy the wrong stuff. Unfortunately, he "charged" me for his services, and now I have to make the trek down to Rockville to buy him lunch. The things I do in the name of public safety. Y'all owe me for this one.

I get the feeling that this is going to cause a bit of an argument on here. My friend is not an expert in PG/VG or the inhalation thereof. Neither am I. I have no additional knowledge of the subject other than what I posted above. I am going to assume that my friend operated with my best interests in mind and made his best effort at validating the information that I sent him. I have no way to verify that he did; however, I have known him since I was 6 and I trust him completely (Except around my candy stash. He used to raid that frequently when we were kids). So, either use the PG/VG from Essential Depot, or don't. I will do so without reservation.

 

[cookiebun]

After seeing the information in this thread, I paniced. I had just ordered 2 gallons each PG/VG from Essential Depot on 12/18.




I get the feeling that this is going to cause a bit of an argument on here. My friend is not an expert in PG/VG or the inhalation thereof. Neither am I. I have no additional knowledge of the subject other than what I posted above. I am going to assume that my friend operated with my best interests in mind and made his best effort at validating the information that I sent him. I have no way to verify that he did; however, I have known him since I was 6 and I trust him completely (Except around my candy stash. He used to raid that frequently when we were kids). So, either use the PG/VG from Essential Depot, or don't. I will do so without reservation.

Why would it cause an argument?
I've been using ED vg/pg for over 2 years as have many, many others here. It's fine. If some one doesn't think so there are many alternatives to choose from.
If you have questions or concerns read this:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/277267-purity-pg-vg-peg-short-version.html
Vape on, mix on folks.

 

[Spazmelda]

MD_Boater, my husband is on an expert panel with the USP and he said pretty much the same thing your friend told you. Not being with the USP himself (just on a panel) he didn't know for 100% sure, but he's very familiar with monographs and never recalled seeing anything like the labeling requirements posted. I tried searching the web for USP labeling requirements, but came up with nothing in this regard.

The USP and their published guidelines is a pretty sweet set up for them. They make a lot of money with these guidelines and by selling reference standards to test substances against. They practically have a monopoly on this sort of thing, and I'd find it hard to believe that they'd allow people to go around slapping USP on things and getting by on a loophole for exact labeling like that.

 

[Traver]

My own preference is to buy USP. I am prepared to pay the difference in price. If i was using it from ED I wouldn't have any worries until someone found a reason to. It may be that they are buying USP liquid and repackaging it. Once they open it it can no longer be sold as USP unless unless they do it under USP certified conditions. This would worry me more if I was buying from a small outfit with unknown sanitary conditions that is repackaging their liquids.

 

[Iffy]

So, either use the PG/VG from Essential Depot, or don't. I will do so without reservation.

Ditto! Been using ED PG & VG for 'bout two years and am totally satisfied with the products and CS.

 

[WillyZee]

All of the USP required required information was present on both labels. I asked him if he could get me a copy of the current labelling requirements, and he said that USP sets standards for products, not labels. The USP "requirements" are that the labels contain an accurate portrayal of the product information as set in the monograph for that product.

Thanks for stopping by and chiming in MD_Boater ... I have no issues using ED and don't see where anybody should at this point.

Cheers and Happy New Year

 

[MD_Boater]

Why would it cause an argument?
I've been using ED vg/pg for over 2 years as have many, many others here. It's fine. If some one doesn't think so there are many alternatives to choose from.
If you have questions or concerns read this:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/277267-purity-pg-vg-peg-short-version.html
Vape on, mix on folks.

Well, as a "new guy" on this forum, I did not want to come in here and say something that may get misconstrued as a personal attack on SmokeyJoe, traver, yzer, or anyone else. I do not know them, and what I have been told by what I consider to be a reliable "horse's mouth" source is in direct conflict with what they are saying. Most everyone on this forum knows more about vaping than I do, so I am not trying to run around undermining those that truly know more than I do about the subject. I am fortunate in that USP is local, and that I have a long time friend that I trust working there. I only persued the information for my own personal satisfaction. I am satisfied that the answer that I received. My only goal was to pass that information from a highly reliable source on to others who don't have access to similar resources.

MD_Boater, my husband is on an expert panel with the USP and he said pretty much the same thing your friend told you. Not being with the USP himself (just on a panel) he didn't know for 100% sure, but he's very familiar with monographs and never recalled seeing anything like the labeling requirements posted. I tried searching the web for USP labeling requirements, but came up with nothing in this regard.

The USP and their published guidelines is a pretty sweet set up for them. They make a lot of money with these guidelines and by selling reference standards to test substances against. They practically have a monopoly on this sort of thing, and I'd find it hard to believe that they'd allow people to go around slapping USP on things and getting by on a loophole for exact labeling like that.

I agree, it is indeed a sweet deal. The fact that it is is what motivates them to audit products bearing the USP nomenclature. They would be fools to let companies slap "USP" on products that do not meet their certification standards. Their reputation is on the line.

My own preference is to buy USP. I am prepared to pay the difference in price.

Lol... this is why I said that I didn't want to start an argument. Clearly, Traver is implying that he believes that ED's VG is not USP. (I'm not singling you out, Traver. You just happened to be the first to do what I expected.) I won't get into an argument with folks about it. I just had an employee of USP tell me flat out that this product is USP. I got back from lunch with him about 10 minutes ago. He said that he continued to check around after he called me, and he said that he verified that there are no USP requirements for labelling. There are very clearly defined labelling requirements for products and materials sent to their labs for testing, but not for retail products that have been certified as meeting the USP standard. According to one of his colleagues in the legal department, a manufacturer can sell a product meeting USP standards labelled as "Fred", as long as there is a section on the packaging that states which components in "Fred" meet USP standards, and at what percentage. Not specifying a percentage implies that 100% of "Fred" is "up to standard" (USP lingo there).

If i was using it from ED I wouldn't have any worries until someone found a reason to. It may be that they are buying USP liquid and repackaging it. Once they open it it can no longer be sold as USP unless unless they do it under USP certified conditions. This would worry me more if I was buying from a small outfit with unknown sanitary conditions that is repackaging their liquids.

I see no indication that these products were repackaged anywhere. Looking at Essential Depot's web site, I don't see a facility large enough for them to be doing much repackaging of anything. As far as I know, the gallon of VG that I bought met USP standards when it was originally put into that gallon jug, and that the jug has has never been re-opened. It was foil sealed when I got it... The rather plain jane label ED uses leads me to believe that the actual manufacturer packages and ships the product to them unlabelled, and then ED affixes the label at some point after they get it.

 

[michealprater]

I love the detailed breakdown guys lol! This is good stuff. It is flavorless and makes great juice. Who cares about the rest lol.

 

[yzer]

I see no indication that these products were repackaged anywhere. Looking at Essential Depot's web site, I don't see a facility large enough for them to be doing much repackaging of anything. As far as I know, the gallon of VG that I bought met USP standards when it was originally put into that gallon jug, and that the jug has has never been re-opened. It was foil sealed when I got it... The rather plain jane label ED uses leads me to believe that the actual manufacturer packages and ships the product to them unlabelled, and then ED affixes the label at some point after they get it.

Now we are getting somewhere. If this product is not rebottled by ED on-site and is Glycerin USP obtained from a wholesaler of Glycerin USP there is no issue.

I still have questions regarding the proper labeling of USP products and have sent my questions directly to what appears to be the verification division at the USP website. I'll let you know if I get an answer.

 

[Spazmelda]

I see no indication that these products were repackaged anywhere. Looking at Essential Depot's web site, I don't see a facility large enough for them to be doing much repackaging of anything. As far as I know, the gallon of VG that I bought met USP standards when it was originally put into that gallon jug, and that the jug has has never been re-opened. It was foil sealed when I got it... The rather plain jane label ED uses leads me to believe that the actual manufacturer packages and ships the product to them unlabelled, and then ED affixes the label at some point after they get it.

They could also simply contract the production of this out. It's not uncommon, even for huge companies, to do this.

 

[MD_Boater]

That's true. It could be packaged and repackaged several times and we would have no way to know about it. I see Glycerin everywhere these days. It's like how after you buy a new car, you start seeing that same model everywhere. 3 Months ago, I never noticed glycerin. Now days, I see if in just about every store I go to. Guess now I'll have to start paying attention as to how many say "USP" on them.

Naaa... Mission accomplished. The VG I bought ain't gonna kill me. That's all I ever wanted to find out.

Side note: I mixed a little of each yesterday (no measurements, but close to 50/50 by volume), and put some in a 510 atomizer. It made nice thick clouds of flavorless vapor. I'm happy about that. I was worried that they wouldn't taste right after I saw the USP debate for the first time 2 days after I had placed my order.

 

[Crunktanium]

Btw ED is having a sale and I'm getting $36.41 total for a gal of both VG/PG in Paypal Checkout. Shipping should be $11 but tis not being added in the cart for some reason. Will call them in the morning to see what's up but even $25/gal would be a steal. They also have a 1gal VG/PG special of 54.49 with free shipping. Buying one of each individually and paying for the shipping seems to be a couple bucks cheaper though.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

That's a great deal Crunktanium. I paid around $57 for a gallon of each a few months back and thought that was a great deal at the time.

PS - I broke up the gallons into 4 glass quart canning jars each. Still debating if I want to put 3 each of the PG and VG in the freezer or leave them in my closet in an unused cooler. Seems like there going to outlast me lol

Cheers,
Steve

 

[MD_Boater]

The PG jugs say use by 6-14-15, and the VG jugs say use by 12-12-15. I put the 2nd jug of each back in the double boxes that they came in and stuck them under the stairs in my basement. It gets cold down there in the winter, but stays below 75 all summer. I might move them to a freezer or fridge in the spring.

I'm looking at all of this liquid sitting here, wondering what in the world was I thinking when I ordered this much? I did go in half with a buddy who just started vaping a few weeks ago and is down to just a few analogs a week now. He was my best man, and my first analog convert. Felt great to hear him say how much better he was feeling.

At any rate, I am getting ready to start DIY. I need nic, measuring equipment, and tons of advice. I'm shopping now. I'll be pestering you folks in the next week or so...

 

[Wingsfan0310]

The PG jugs say use by 6-14-15, and the VG jugs say use by 12-12-15. I put the 2nd jug of each back in the double boxes that they came in and stuck them under the stairs in my basement. It gets cold down there in the winter, but stays below 75 all summer. I might move them to a freezer or fridge in the spring.

I'm looking at all of this liquid sitting here, wondering what in the world was I thinking when I ordered this much? I did go in half with a buddy who just started vaping a few weeks ago and is down to just a few analogs a week now. He was my best man, and my first analog convert. Felt great to hear him say how much better he was feeling.

At any rate, I am getting ready to start DIY. I need nic, measuring equipment, and tons of advice. I'm shopping now. I'll be pestering you folks in the next week or so...

I feel the same way - I've been making juice left and right and have barely dented the 1st quart of each. I'll second the "What in the world was I thinking buying a gallon of each". Might need to make some homemade soap and hand lotion to use it all before 2100

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Crunktanium]

I have gallons of Fog fluid which is composed of VG/PG/DW and it's been sitting in my office far longer than two years.

 

[MD_Boater]

Might need to make some homemade soap and hand lotion to use it all before 2100

Steve, you are going to draw quite a bit of attention to yourself sitting on a curb trying to carve a bar of soap into a cylinder that will fit into a pro tank.

I have gallons of Fog fluid which is composed of VG/PG/DW and it's been sitting in my office far longer than two years.

Put a bit of nic liquid into it, and give us your Legalvape 4000 review.

 

[Crunktanium]

Well if they ban e-cigs we can strip down foggers and use the guts to create an e-Hookah for the whole family.