PG vs VG?

[Shauna67]

What are the preformance differences between the 2? I heard VG is healthier?

 

[ipushbuttons]

Both pg and vg have there purposes. PG produces less vapor but has more of a throat hit. VG, on the other hand, has much greater vapor production while somewhat lacing in the th department. PG does have some red flags associated in the health department though...
PROPYLENE GLYCOL:
Implicated in contact dermatitis, kidney damage and liver abnormalities; can inhabit skin cell growth in human tests and can damage cell membranes causing rashes, dry skin and surface damage.
-- Material Safety Data Sheets(MSDS)

A published clinical review showed propylene glycol causes a significant number of reactions and was primary irritant to the skin even in low levels of concentrations.
- The American Academy of Dermatologists, inc.; Jan. ‘91


ACUTE EFFECTS:

• May be harmful by inhalation, ingestion or skin absorption.
• May cause eye irritation, skin irritation.
• Exposure can cause gastro-intestenal disturbances, nausea, headache and vomiting, central nervous system depression.
  -- Material Safety Data Sheets(MSDS)

I use PG myself because of the th but would like to change over to vg since it appears much safer.

 

[CaptJay]

PG has actually had more years of testing than VG, so I couldn't say if VG is 'healthier' - its still a chemical that's lab created and not present in nature. Just because it has the word vegetable in the title doesn't make it 'better'
VG will gives a smoother TH and more vapor whereas PG will gives a more robust TH and more flavor (and less vapor).
I personally believe they are as 'safe' as each other (which may or may not be 'safe' but appears to be safER than using cigarettes) and people use either one or a mix of both (what I use is 80/20 PG/VG mixes) as a preference rather than a knowledge of the actions on the body. So much is still not known, so we are the guinea pigs - which I'm ok with.

 

[Ourei]

PG was tested on mice back in the 1940s and it protected them from the flu. It's categorized as a germicide, and a number of users on this forum have vouched that while the flu affected people around them, they didn't get sick. Switching to an all-VG liquid, they caught the flu.

One of the benefits, which may or may not outweigh the side-effects listed in this thread

Personally, an all-VG liquid tends to disable my taste buds, and I can't taste anything I vape for most of the day. So I'm more of a PG-based user, and I'll use all-VG liquids only if the flavor doesn't come in a PG variant (like Boba's Bounty, boo-hoo) and I tend to enjoy it only for the first few puffs. After that it's tasteless. But VG seems fine for most users, I must be the odd one

 

[Xenite]

To be honest I think PG is the better choice, of the few complaints I've heard of long term vaping people seem to be having issues after using the VG. Neither has had significant research done as far as long term exposure, and what has been done shows the PG to be fairly safe if not beneficial to health in some aspects.

Plus we are already used to PG. It's in toothpaste, shampoo, snow cone's, dried spices, asthma inhalers, and many food products.

 

[patzi]

Stupid question but how do you know if you've got PG or VG?

 

[Shaka]

...I heard VG is healthier?

I guess I'll throw in my 2 nickels, based on personal research early on that helped me decide to go with all vg juices. Much of this was in another thread and is only MO.

Pg (propylene glycol) is a petrochemical made from crude oil and natural gas. Producers are slowly starting to make it from glycerin, which is a renewable resource. Dow Chemical is the world’s largest producer of pg.

Vg (vegetable glycerin) is an organic compound derived mainly from coconut and palm oil. I think many e-juices (I'm only guessing) are made with USP glycerin, which isn't necessarily the same as vegetable glycerin. If “vegetable” is not clearly stated on the label, then it’s likely from animal fat. Both are safe and the ONLY difference is personal/philosophical (vegan, PETA, etc.) or religious. So the “vg” acronym as we use it here is really a misnomer (if my guess is right). For the past 150 years, glycerin has been produced as a by-product of soap manufacturing.

Both have antimicrobial properties and are deemed safe. However, it's been my observation that more members seem to suffer adverse reactions to pg, and some have developed an intolerance to even small amounts of pg. I think you’ll notice that members who favor high pg content do so by choice (more th and flavor). On the other hand, many who use all vg do so because of problems in tolerating pg...one of the reasons there's a VG USERS ONLY group in the Social Forum.

Personally, there was a harshness in pg that I didn't feel with vg. I also prefer organic origins vs. petroleum based, and vg as a renewable resource is obviously the greener option. Just my observations, opinions, and reasons why I chose to go with vg.

 

[zoiDman]

Stupid question but how do you know if you've got PG or VG?

There are no Stupid questions here at the ECF. Only Stupid answers!

You can allways ask you vendor what their base is made of. I have found that most of the time if they do not say on their web site what it is that it is usualy %100 PG or something very close.

 

[fireball]

I'm new to vaping and started off with the PG liquid, and I turned to this board for the answers I needed for the problems I was having. You all are awsome!

And, you really have to do some hunting on websites and emailing of vendors to get the proper info as to what they use.

 

[Drozd]

I use PG and find it more proven than VG...I find no value to VG other than increased vapor production and recuction of TH...and for those that truely actually do have a sensitivity to PG (which I'm convinced is not nearly anywhere near the numbers we hear about here)
PG is used in breathing treatments and asthma emergeny inhalers, is an additive in shampoo,personal lubrication, and foods (like the loranns flavoring that we use to flavor our juice)...

VG or glycerine can be produced one of 3 ways which also includeds petrochemical...

however glycerine if you go buy it at the store is sold as a skin softener and says nothing about using it internally...

The problem with looking at the MSDS for PG is that generally people are bringing up the MSDS for industrial not USP grade PG...which makes a TON of difference...

PG has been studied for inhalation and long term exposure contrary to popular belief and has not been shown to have long term effects..
there's been studies published and referenced in Time, British medical journal, Journal of Pharacology, and by NASA...
the CDC's agency of Toxic substances and disease registry has an entry for PG which states that to date any of the risks from PG have been due to very very high concentrations delivered topically over burns or via IV...the safe daily dietary amount of PG is 23mg/kg of body weight (and that's ingested which has a much higher absorption rate (any idea how much you'd have to vape to come close to that?...it's almost impossible))...and that it's eliminated from the body in 4 hours...with it being metabolized into lactic acid any pyruvic acid which is further broken down in the body to carbon dioxide..

Here:
Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol Toxicity: What is Propylene Glycol | ATSDR - Environmental Medicine & Environmental Health Education - CSEM

 

[Ourei]

Wow, Drozd, thank you for some very insteresting PG/VG data!

I do prefer PG mostly because I don't notice it when I vape. With VG, there's a sweetness I can detect in some flavors that aren't supposed to be sweet. Also, I get a flat, watery-tasting film that forms on my tongue - at least it feels/tastes like it - when I vape pure VG.

 

[Shaka]

...VG or glycerine can be produced one of 3 ways which also includeds petrochemical...
...however glycerine if you go buy it at the store is sold as a skin softener and says nothing about using it internally...

Hi Drozd. Except for the above, I agree with all of your points.

Because of its prohibitive cost, petrochemical based glycerin is almost non-existent since WWII (needed for gun powder and explosives). Today there is a surplus of glycerin (byproduct of biofuel production) and HUGE amounts are being disposed as waste or burned....why Dow Chemical and others are gearing up to produce pg from glycerin because it's cheaper than oil. And of course, it can't be vg if its a petrochemical.

Like pg, Glycerin from stores can be USP, or non-USP...also food-grade vegetable source. Like industrial grade pg, stay away from non-USP glycerin for vaping...as a member found out here

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/79332-cvs-glycerin.html#post1178892

As I said in previous post, both are safe...and it all boils down to personal preference

I grew up with glycerin in my med cabinet and been using it for over 60 years...good for itches, really reduces healing time (and scarring especially), great for clearing stuffed noses, and nothing cures cold sores faster. I guess I just have a sentimental attachment to glycerin. lol (but I do trust it).

 

[Shaka]

I do prefer PG mostly because I don't notice it when I vape. With VG, there's a sweetness I can detect in some flavors that aren't supposed to be sweet. Also, I get a flat, watery-tasting film that forms on my tongue - at least it feels/tastes like it - when I vape pure VG.

Aloha Ourei!

Forgot to multi-quote my above post. The sweetness you detect is because it is sweet and is used in foods as a sweetner:

As a sugar substitute, it has approximately 27 calories per teaspoon and is 60 percent as sweet as sucrose. Although it has about the same food energy as table sugar, it does not raise blood sugar levels, nor does it feed the bacteria that form plaques and cause dental cavities....Wikipedia

ps: whereabouts in hawaii are you from?

 

[FreeFlow]

Wow, Drozd, thank you for some very insteresting PG/VG data!

I do prefer PG mostly because I don't notice it when I vape. With VG, there's a sweetness I can detect in some flavors that aren't supposed to be sweet. Also, I get a flat, watery-tasting film that forms on my tongue - at least it feels/tastes like it - when I vape pure VG.

exactly the same here

 

[Ourei]

Hi, Shaka808! Thanks for the info on VG being sweet, I have a bottle of plain VG liquid, and decided to taste a drop just now. Wow, it's extremely sweet! I'd never have known!

I'm in Makawao, Maui, but I'm originally from Honolulu

 

[Shaka]

I'm in Makawao, Maui, but I'm originally from Honolulu

Man that's God's country! I went the other way from country to city...Born in Kona (picked my share of coffee) to Honolulu. Glad to know you Ourei!