plain text password storage from some vendors

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SlaughterhouseV

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I have noticed some vendors are not properly storing and securing passwords on their sites. When you submit forgot password you should never be emailed your actual password. When this is done it means they are not properly storing and salting the passwords. Please notify them promptly to correct this. Plain Text Offenders keeps track of these offenses for other places. You should not use the same password on multiple sites but if you choose to ignore that security principle please take preventive measures and change your password any time this is found.
 

Sector000

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I noticed this too. I wrote to one of the sites, but I was told not to worry because they use SSL. I explained that it's a different issue from SSL and that passwords should be hashed and never stored or sent in cleartext. Besides, the email containing my password was not SSL encrypted. Judging by the email responses I get, I don't think they understood the seriousness of the problem or that there's even a problem. One of the vendors insisted that their site is "completely secured". :rolleyes:

I gave up explaining this to the vendors. I just immediately changed all my passwords after registering at a new site. And I use different passwords at each site. So if you somehow managed to steal my password at one of those sites, save yourself the trouble and don't try it at the banks brokerages. :laugh:

Also, I also noticed that many of these sites look almost identical to each other (ignoring the skins). I suspect many of them are powered by the same software, so it's reasonable to think the software is quite popular. What's not reasonable is how such a popular piece of software can totally screw up on simple security issues.

Oh well...
 

Snapdragon

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I received two messages from GMail yesterday saying that the email account I use mostly just for e-cig vendors, had two hack attempts from an IP address in India. They were stopped. :)

I am so glad the passwords I use for those online accounts are different from any others I use. ;)
 
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SlaughterhouseV

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I have actually contacted the store front software that many of the vendors I've found this problem with using. Hopefully they will get their act together especially considering they proclaim themselves to be PCI/CISP certified. There certainly is a chance that their software provides it but does not handle it properly by default and requires configuration. There is only so much of an excuse I can tolerate for places that have these problems given the volume of sales I know some of them do. After talking with the provider of said software suites that many vendors are using I will be then contacting the vendors I have found this problem on along with remediation options to improve their security posture and as a result help their customers security as well.
 

Sector000

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Hopefully they will get their act together especially considering they proclaim themselves to be PCI/CISP certified. There certainly is a chance that their software provides it but does not handle it properly by default and requires configuration
We know for sure it's not PCI/CISP compliant. I suspect the software is simply flawed. If the developers are aware of the security issues, they wouldn't bother to write something that sends out passwords via email.
 

retired1

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You do realize that if the server is compromised, it really doesn't matter if the passwords are encrypted or not? A rootkit can be dropped onto the server that then scrapes the memory for information as it's being processed. Granted, one SHOULD store passwords in an encrypted state, but it doesn't prevent them from being stolen.
 

SlaughterhouseV

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Retired1, that's only part of the issue. When they are sent through a plain text protocol they can be sniffed and read. Not to mention the server side issues. And yes there are means to still acquire it's a matter of taking preventive measures to reduce these risks and mitigate them down to an acceptable level. Improperly stored passwords (plain text storage or with a weak salt) are obvious problems that the passwords can be pulled straight from the server as is or cracked in seconds. Whereas if properly stored the passwords can salted in a way where it takes a very long time to crack. However the first point is my biggest problem with it (the fact the passwords are sent via a plain text protocol). I've been a computer and network security engineer for over a decade, which is part of what drives me crazy with seeing this.
 
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rolygate

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I doubt if any of the vendors have the faintest clue about any web security issues, they leave that to their webmasters. And, those that do think they know something about web security are probably more dangerous that those who don't; they'll be the ones sending you your password in plain text in a plain email because they think they've covered everything by doing a couple of jobs on the server.

The webmasters are mostly worse than the owners as they work to a price, and that only allows for site build and frontend site management, but they might tell the owner they've 'fixed' the security, and the owners probably believe it. Plus most of them came up from building HTML sites, and are struggling with DB-driven sites, and never took a security course anyway. The average webmaster wouldn't have a clue about XSS, SQL injection, PHP security or anything like that. Of all the dozens of webmasters and sitebuilders I know, only one or two have any clue about site security; and they aren't at the level of a specialist.

Come to that, a lot of hosts are equally blank. They have support techs who leave a phpinfo.php file in the webroot after looking at something, or tell you the server needs register_globals on.

If devs are employed they concentrate on implementing more features, they don't really know about security. When they write plugins, half of them have holes in the size of Subtropolis.

The number of ecig vendor sites that have had a specialist security consultant work on them in the last year is unlikely to be more than 1 in 1,000. As ECF has over 2,000 vendors registered that isn't a great percentage. You basically have to accept that you'll need a unique password for every vendor site (which should be basic practice anyway), and change it every month, and use a one-time CC number. If you don't do that, it's inviting trouble, as the vendors mostly don't know anything about web commerce.

Another issue is that people think a password is something like their dog's name or whatever, so they can remember it. No one told them that:
a. If you can remember a password then it doesn't qualify as one. Real passwords are impossible to remember.
b. This is 2013 and you have 100 passwords (or should have), all completely unrelated and all gibberish. That means you have to use a password manager, all of which use encryption, so they should be reasonably safe on your PC. How many have got Roboform or Keepass etc?
c. These days you don't ever click 'Remember me' on a website that involves financial transactions and that needs a password, as it makes the browser remember it. Since many people are using Internet Exploder, it's a license for any 14-year old script kiddie to get your stuff.


So with a combination of users who know nothing about security (which is understandable, and not really their fault), and vendors who know nothing about security (which is understandable - that's why they always need a specialist security consultant) - but who don't employ a specialist, we are bound to have frauds occurring constantly. No way round it. It's everyone's fault, or no one's fault, depending on your viewpoint.

The individual can certainly protect themselves but most can't be bothered. How many use a one-time CC number?

The web is the new wild west and it's a rich playground for a criminal coder. Even people you'd expect to have things locked up tight are sometimes wide open. The spotty kid from Dagenham or somewhere who hacked into the Pentagon's computers and left messages about alien spacecraft, and who the US are trying to extradite from the UK, when asked if it was hard, said: "It was ridiculously easy".
 
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retired1

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a. If you can remember a password then it doesn't qualify as one. Real passwords are impossible to remember.

I beg to differ. Pass phrases of 20 characters or more are virtually impossible to break and are easy to remember. Password policies that require users to change their passwords on a regular basis and include a random mix of alpha-numeric characters are primarily what's wrong with password security today. Force a user to use the archaic methods of choosing a password, and you're going to have a user who writes the password down and keeps it handy.

The old school model of password creation should be tossed out and burned. Never to be resurrected again. Yes, password keepers do help, and yes, one should have a different password for every site they belong to. But it still doesn't help when the site requires a user to pick something that is impossible to remember or use. And for those who use multiple devices to access the Internet, trying to synchronize those keys across multiple devices is a royal pain in the .....

Passwords CAN be remembered. They just shouldn't be simple, 6 letter affairs.
 

Sector000

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You do realize that if the server is compromised, it really doesn't matter if the passwords are encrypted or not? A rootkit can be dropped onto the server that then scrapes the memory for information as it's being processed.
But it does matter. Hashing algorithms are one-way functions. In theory, the only way to crack hashed passwords is to use brute force (plus some heuristics such as a dictionary). There are no keys to compromise.

If the attacker wishes to scrape a user's password from system memory, he must do so exactly at the moment when the user is logging in. A properly designed system would not retain the cleartext password in memory.
 

Sector000

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Good read, glad I found this thread, I always wondered if it was a security issue when I was receiving an email with my password in plain text, well, now I know.
I bet your password, while in transit via email, was already sniffed and stored for future reference by at least one or more network administrator and/or government agencies. :)
 
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