Please Donate to the ECA

[Krakkan]

Oh there is money to be made in E-cigs? Please show me cause I want some lol. Its very easy to think someone charges X dollars then they are making alot of cash but when you figure in the costs of packing/packaging the cost of marketing and the costs of goods and then the low costs people expect these things to be then obviously it isnt as profitable as one might think.

Most suppliers are very small and dont have alot of resources IE they only buy so much supply which equals a small amount of profit. Hopefully we grow to be much bigger and offer even more support but till then we need any help you can offer the ECA.

If you don't want to help the ECA so be it but don't assume the suppliers are all filthy rich cuz we are not I ate ramen noodles for lunch today so I could make sure I had supplies the next time you guys run out -- what did have for lunch?

 

[nycsublimegirl]

My Profits are spoken for, between ECA, Charge Backs, Customs, Products, Shipping Supplies, and Returns. I have yet to really see a dime of these 'profits', But that's to be expected for a company that is just starting.

I'm only a few months old myself, but I'm giving what I can to the ECA. I'm not here to change your opinion, but keep in mind we're not all 'big' companies. I do this by myself, and work a Full Time (40-60 Hours a week) job on top of this. It makes for a lot of looong nights and days filled with lack of sleep, but it keeps me busy and I love it! (Workaholic). I'm not playing for the sympathy card here, just a reminder.

I am not Puresmoker, Smoking Everywhere, or Smoke51. I am AltSmoke, and I am doing what I can to help the ECA.

Halopunker thanks for such an honest statement. I just want to say that...yes I am a supplier but I am also a consumer first and foremost... I was such an excited consumer I became a supplier... I know Halopunker is the same as with many other suppliers in the Forum and ECA. We don't want ecigs banned just for profits sake but for our own sake as vapers ourselves!

As suppliers and through the shared info we get through working with the ECA we are privy to a lot more of the actual /factual things the FDA is doing. For example Bloog, and almost every single other supplier has had orders refused entry into the US...and it’s not just the liquid ...sometimes it’s just a box of atomizers or batteries.. Bloog has even had just the empty gift boxes detained for over a week!

When this happens we have to pay return shipping to china.. .if we want a chance of seeing the merchandise we have paid for...but there is no guarantee we will see it again... For example Bloog had a huge order detained without formal reason for a month by the FDA ... they eventually denied entry into the US .. it went back to china. When it went through Chinese customs they imposed a 100% tariff on it...meaning we would have to pay the total cost of the order just to have it released...so that means we would have to pay for the order 2x and shipping 3x without even having it in our hands yet or any promise that we ever would...so we had to consider that a lost order and cost of doing business.. this is becoming more and more rampant every day... and yet the FDA will not say what their official official stance even is....


For now some suppliers are trying to get around the problems importing by creating them in the US... but if the FDA is not dealt with head on now with the importation of the ecig… it is only a matter of time before they ban the sale in the US period... as which time they could even ban public use.

This is a snowball that we are trying to hold from rolling down the hill... we are all running toward it as fast as we can ...

Fact of the matter is, to even slow it down, we will need an enormous amount of time, energy and plain old $$$.. we are talking in the millions... when all is said and done...

None is forcing anyone to participate or donate now or in the future... if you need more time to see how the ECA shakes out its understandable.. but get your voice heard in any way possible..continue to write government ...hold demonstrations...get everyone you know to sign petitions...etc....

But if you believe in the message of the ECA and can help financially that is all we ask.

 

[tescela]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Could you immediately set up a system whereby every distributor in the ECA charges a flat surcharge (e.g., $5.00) or a percentage markup (e.g., 10%) per order to be passes directly on to the ECA?

2. As a (not nearly as good) alternative, could all distributors in the ECA add a check box whereby buyers automatically contribute $5.00 to the ECA?

3. Could a campaign be mounted whereby distributors in the ECA are highlighted in this forum so we can channel our business to them? Also, is there a way to pressure non-ECA distributors to join?

In case it isn't obvious, I am thinking that a combination of #1 and #3 would be the best approach.

One thing we can all agree on: the ECA needs money to mount a major PR campaign, and it needs to do so NOW.

 

[Ladycats]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Could you immediately set up a system whereby every distributor in the ECA charges a flat surcharge (e.g., $5.00) or a percentage markup (e.g., 10%) per order to be passes directly on to the ECA?

2. As a (not nearly as good) alternative, could all distributors in the ECA add a check box whereby buyers automatically contribute $5.00 to the ECA?

3. Could a campaign be mounted whereby distributors in the ECA are highlighted in this forum so we can channel our business to them? Also, is there a way to pressure non-ECA distributors to join?

In case it isn't obvious, I am thinking that a combination of #1 and #3 would be the best approach.

One thing we can all agree on: the ECA needs money to mount a major PR campaign, and it needs to do so NOW.

1. Hmmm...not so sure this is a good plan ... times are a bit tough these days for many people out there .... I'm thinking a price increase may do more harm than good .... I suspect some folks are struggling to support their habit already ...

2. Now this is a great idea ... leave it up to the individual to decide if they can afford 5 .. 10 .. 20 dollars more with this order ... and perhaps not .. with the next ... let them decide what and when they can afford it ..

3.Another good idea .... I think it would be great to see what suppliers are members ....as to "pressuring" those that are not ... not so sure ... I personally take issue with being forced/pressured into anything

 

[Letzin Hale]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Could you immediately set up a system whereby every distributor in the ECA charges a flat surcharge (e.g., $5.00) or a percentage markup (e.g., 10%) per order to be passes directly on to the ECA?

2. As a (not nearly as good) alternative, could all distributors in the ECA add a check box whereby buyers automatically contribute $5.00 to the ECA?

3. Could a campaign be mounted whereby distributors in the ECA are highlighted in this forum so we can channel our business to them? Also, is there a way to pressure non-ECA distributors to join?

In case it isn't obvious, I am thinking that a combination of #1 and #3 would be the best approach.

One thing we can all agree on: the ECA needs money to mount a major PR campaign, and it needs to do so NOW.

1. If I went to buy myself some goods and saw that there was a surcharge to fund some organisation that I had never heard of I would find another supplier that wasn't imposing the surcharge.

2. That would be acceptable so long as enough information was provided to inform the buyer exactly what they were contributing toward. I'm not sure of the legality in the US of asking for donations in this manner.

3. You don't need a campaign to have a list of ECA supporters. The idea you have to "pressure non-ECA distributors to join" is a very dangerous one as you could alienate the ECA from many people by portraying them as 'the heavy mob'. Whether the 'ECA Approved' tag will have any widespread effect is debatable as it is only US based and questionable regarding its make up.

Alan.

 

[Babachoo]

For those who aren't quite clear on what a 501(c)(6) is...

It's basically a business league (like the NFL or your local chamber of commerce). 501(c)(6) organizations may engage in limited political activities that inform, educate, and promote their given interest. They may not engage in direct expenditures advocating a vote for a political candidate or cause. Donations to 501(c)(6) organizations are not required to be disclosed.

Please take a moment now and read this page, since I can't post links please follow these steps.
1. google "for-shelters/comparison-501c3-501c4-501c6.html"
2. click on the first result, from petfinder dot com and view the table showing the differences between the classifications

That page has plenty of info to explain why I believe noone in their right mind should donate to this organization, and why I believe that they themselves weren't fully educated regarding the differences in 501 organizations, or just outright thought that we would be stupid enough to not notice the seemingly slight difference in classification, and just assume that donating money to a business league that has little to no accountability as per its classification status would be a great idea.

To the board of the ECA, I ask this...

What would be the point of us giving you donations if you can't even use it as expenditures to promote or discourage any specific legislation regarding your cause? And since you can't spend that money to campaign for any political reasons, what would you spend it on? Whatever it is that you say you'll spend it on, if it is indeed something we could all agree needs to be funded, and it doesn't violate any laws or regulations imposed on your organization...how would we really know what you're spending our money on if you have absolutely no obligation nor legal requirement to make public nor report to the IRS your donations and expenditures.

If you can't answer that question, which I suspect you can't, you are in way over your head and have already gotten off to a rotten start. Regardless of your initial intentions were, I'm afraid that what you applied for and accepted is far from something the general vaping public would support now. If your intentions weren't to fleece money from us, which 501c6 status would make VERY easy for you to do, then I truly feel bad that you jumped into something based on emotion and not logic, and didn't bother to educate yourself before acting.

I hate to have to be so blunt, but you see, I too like to educate the public, as I'm doing in this thread. But there's a difference between your business league and I. I don't ask for donations for my services and I don't put out faulty facts such as the first bit of information we saw you post about average vaping consumption habits.

One last comparison in case it still hasn't sunk in...

I enjoy watching football games and have a couple of favorite NFL teams.

Vapers enjoy vaping and have a couple of favorite suppliers.

The NFL is a business league (501c6) that is funded by licensing fees and dues.
The ECA is a business league that wants to be funded by your donations.

When I buy a jersey at Footlocker, the NFL makes its cut of the money.
When I buy a bottle of eliquid at Ruyan, the ECA makes nothing, and Ruyan would lose my business if they started charging more in order to give a percentage to the ECA, because the ECA can serve no purpose really other than to educate the public. But this forum educates the public much more than the ECA ever could. The ECA can't campaign for or against legislation, so why are they needed?

The NFL was founded in 1920 and doesn't spam for donations or beg people to put links in their sigs to get more suckers to go to their site and donate money.
The ECA was founded a couple of weeks ago and immediately jumped right to "GIVE US UR MONIES NAO!".

I won't even go into detail about how their posts here have numerous spelling and grammatical errors or how it takes days for them to answer questions, and completely avoid certain questions. I won't even bicker about how they named their organization using a word we all hate (cigarette). I'll just conclude by saying that if it looks like crap, sounds like crap, and smells like crap, it must be crap, which is unfortunate because when I first heard about the ECA and what they were planning to do, I was hoping that we would have someone who could fight for our cause, but that's not the case. If they actually ever intended to do such deeds, why on earth did they essentially make it impossible for them to do what they said they were planning to do (by filing as a business league)?

Thank you for your time, keep your donations in your wallets, you'll need it for other things soon enough.

 

[Babachoo]

Important info I forgot to point out...

When going to that page at petfinder, click the google cached page rather than the normal link. The normal link is a blank page but the cache is still up as of now.

 

[Kate]

Comparison of 501(c)(3), 501(c)(4) and 501(c)(6) Organizations: For Shelters: Petfinder Library


It says on that table that trade organisations are allowed to lobby

 

[OutWest]

They [501(c)(6) organizations ]may not engage in direct expenditures advocating a vote for a political candidate or cause.

I think the keyword here is "direct".

 

[ECA]

Babachoo:

501(c)(6) is a not-for-profit
501(c)(6) can lobby
ECA Membership | Electronic Cigarette Association lists 5 areas of what the ECA will be spending money on.




What is your motivation here? We are simply trying to keep ecigs legal in the US.

 

[allure]

Don't you guys think that the manufactures like ruyan, smoores etc...are the one's who are supposed to be lobbying the congress. it will be their biggest loss if they lost consumers from USA. One good thing is more people are getting aware of this due to this FDA ban controversy, so more smokers will know about this e-cig.

 

[nycsublimegirl]

Manufacturers have the entire world to sell to....

 

[LaceyUnderall]

One good thing is more people are getting aware of this due to this FDA ban controversy, so more smokers will know about this e-cig.

This is definitely true. The same thing can be said regarding Sen. Lautenburg's original coming out against the e-cig. It made groups come out in support of the ecig, public health groups that are otherwise for quitting smoking.

The more who learn about the ecig, the harder it will be to place a complete ban. What we can hope, is that we do all we can to get our voices heard and if it does end up in the hands of the FDA, they will be reasonable in their requests for allowing these to be kept on the market.

But... as we have seen over the past month, things change on a daily basis so the path we are on today, might not be the one to follow tomorrow.

 

[Boston George]

People, I wont say now is the time to act, as you have already heard that line ad nauseum. However, I will say that the ECA's mission is clear and that is to keep e-cigs legal. They are the strongest ally we have got.(I am not yet a member, working on it)

Some people have doubted the ECA's motives. Let me play Devil's advocate. Even if the ECA's goal is to keep e-cigs legal to that they can continue to sell them. ( a notion I disagree with). It still means that e-cigs stay legal in the USA. Everyone wins.

The ECA has put down some serious money to try and lobby Washington. Who else has? I appreciate Right to Vape's grassroots approach, however, what sort of sway does RTV hold with Washington at this moment? The fact is that our future is being debate on the floor of congress as we speak. RTV simply cannot affect DC today. In the long run, RTV needs all of our support because a true grassroots system is in everyone's best interest. Today, we must support the ECA, or we will not win over DC.

 

[yvilla]

The ECA has put down some serious money to try and lobby Washington. Who else has? I appreciate Right to Vape's grassroots approach, however, what sort of sway does RTV hold with Washington at this moment? The fact is that our future is being debate on the floor of congress as we speak. RTV simply cannot affect DC today. In the long run, RTV needs all of our support because a true grassroots system is in everyone's best interest. Today, we must support the ECA, or we will not win over DC.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

 

[allure]

People, I wont say now is the time to act, as you have already heard that line ad nauseum. However, I will say that the ECA's mission is clear and that is to keep e-cigs legal. They are the strongest ally we have got.(I am not yet a member, working on it)

Some people have doubted the ECA's motives. Let me play Devil's advocate. Even if the ECA's goal is to keep e-cigs legal to that they can continue to sell them. ( a notion I disagree with). It still means that e-cigs stay legal in the USA. Everyone wins.

The ECA has put down some serious money to try and lobby Washington. Who else has? I appreciate Right to Vape's grassroots approach, however, what sort of sway does RTV hold with Washington at this moment? The fact is that our future is being debate on the floor of congress as we speak. RTV simply cannot affect DC today. In the long run, RTV needs all of our support because a true grassroots system is in everyone's best interest. Today, we must support the ECA, or we will not win over DC.

I totally agree about ECA good motives and I am 100% supporting them as well as any e-cig member on this board. but if it has to do with spending money lobbying Washington, ECA don't have a chance going against big tobacco companies spending millions of dollars lobbying. it is a tough sell on capitol hill but I believe eventually ecig will survive. Only time can tell..

 

[SavePaperVapor]

I totally agree about ECA good motives and I am 100% supporting them as well as any e-cig member on this board. but if it has to do with spending money lobbying Washington, ECA don't have a chance going against big tobacco companies spending millions of dollars lobbying. it is a tough sell on capitol hill but I believe eventually ecig will survive. Only time can tell..

You hit the nail on the head. If the ECA is trying to lobby DC they are simply going about it the wrong way. Pennies on the dollar people.

 

[Kate51]

I was on ECA website for the last couple of days, and have registered previously. But everywhere you try to look there's a DONATE link. All I would like to see is sort of a schedule of events, meetings posted and with whom, etc. Or are they waiting for money before doing anything. There's A LOT to read and lots of links so I know there are folks doing a lot of leg work but I guess I'm a little leery like a lot of posts I've seen here on ECF, exactly what kind of energy are they generating into the skeptics against e-cigs, also testing the scientific aspects contributed to them. What kind of publicity is coming out. There's still a lot I want to check out there, so maybe I just haven't hit on what I'm looking for yet, but this effort is really going to take a lot of cold cash to have impact even I can see that. I hate to be poopy but seems like an impossible task.

 

[katink]

Completely agree Boston George!

 

[nycsublimegirl]

You hit the nail on the head. If the ECA is trying to lobby DC they are simply going about it the wrong way. Pennies on the dollar people.

Better an out gunned fight then no fight at all...and just rolling over and letting it happen...

that's the American Spirit, and what America was literally built on =)

We just need support. As you see everyday something new is happening.