Please Help! E-cigarette get a dui? E-cigarette Ethanol/Methanol calculations. Post about E-cigarettes and getting a DUI.

[pauljoseph]

Hi Everyone:

So far this site has been amazing and I have been getting so much help. I can't thank you enough. I really need some help understanding calculations of e-cigarettes. I've attached two previous threads to explain why this is so important. It's not relevant to the info in this post but just an FYI.

1) http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...87-alcohol-e-health-e-cigarettes-get-dui.html

2) http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/313136-please-help-dui-e-cigarettes-oct-2011-last-year.html#post6623053

I have been doing a lot of research and there are several studies which many of you may find interesting. The first study here shows tests of vapourizing ethanol and what the BAC score reading was as it relates to Blood Alcohol Levels and if they can impact a breathalyzer reading. The bottom line of this study is that you can get a high BAC score by vapourizing ethanol without feeling intoxicated - this study is here and the chart showing this calculation can be found on page 20 table 3 --> http://www.ethanolrfa.org/page/-/objects/documents/87/ethanol_tox_20001.pdf .

My question is this:

1) Assuming that there is 10% ethanol in one cartridge per e-cigarette what would the concentration be per cartridge of ethanol in mg/l or even better per inhalation?
2) Assuming that you mixed a 40% vodka mixture into a cartridge what would the ethanol levels in mg/l be per cigarette?
3) What would be the highest mg/l of ethanol that could be mixed per cigarette that would actually still allow the cigarette to function?

Your help is greatly, more than you know appreciated - the crown attorney has stated that if we can find the answers to this they are willing to throw the case out. This is the last piece of the puzzle.

I also want you to know that in Florida a judge has agreed to do tests on brethalyzers as part of an injunction (?) - I may have the wording wrong but it's legal and a documented case and e-cigarettes will be included in this. I will keep you posted about this and my friend case as this may be a very big concern for those vaping. If his case is thrown out than this will set a major precedence for e-cigarettes while driving.

Thank you so much!

 

[Kurt]

I would post this to the Heath and Safety forum of ECF. I'm glad you posted this. I don't know the answers to your questions, but 10% alcohol (PGA) is a lot to use in a juice. 2-5% is more reasonable. I don't know what the max is before it will not make visible vapor (it WILL vaporize, just won't give visible condensate...what we generally call "vapor").

It would not surprise me if a juice thinned with alcohol or vodka would give a high breath test. It is fresh alcohol constantly being applied to the mouth and throat. I wonder what someone's test would show if they had JUST finished a vodka on the rocks. Probably also anomalously high due to fresh alcohol still in the mouth.

Question. You link the story of your friend and 7 beers in 5 hours (probably too much as it was) showing a 1.1% blood alcohol level. Isn't 1.1% almost lethal? That's >10x the limit.

Question 2. Is your friend taking an antidepressant? This will block the liver from metabolizing the alcohol, causing a too-high reading...but 1.1%?

I have long recommended those that are not aloud to drink at all to avoid using alcohol to thin juices, for a variety of reasons. Won't go into them here, but this was one of them.

Will they do a test with the breathalizer on someone known to not have had any alcohol to drink, but uses alcohol to thin their juice? that's what needs to be done. Of course then you will have to convince the non-scientist law that it doesn't affect the brain. And I'm afraid it might.

I personally would be unconscious or wish I was if I had 7 beers in 5 hours...but then I don't drink hardly at all ever...but it is not at all likely, unless the tester gave a false reading, that I would be measured at 1.1%. Maybe 0.1%.

There is a poster that frequents the health forum named Cyrus Vap. He knows medicine, and if anyone can address this intelligently, I think he could. I'm a chemist, but my understanding of this situation is very qualitative, and you may need more.
best of luck, and please keep us posted!