Point-WHAT ohms???

[DPLongo22]

Something’s been bothering me and I just need to vent it out here.

I know I’m in the minority, if not all alone, with my concerns about some of the things I’ve been reading related to severe sub-ohm vaping. I’m no expert, but I have this fear that someone playing around with .3’s and what-not, will be what brings us all down into a world of heavy regulation, or worse.

Now I don’t begrudge anyone to do what pleases them, as long as it doesn’t hurt us all in the process. If someone wants to blow their face off, I really don’t care. I just hope it’s nobody that I know. My concern, quite selfishly, is the impact it might have on me. I don’t want someone else’s lack-of-understanding to muck up my good thing. Somehow vaping has turned into a game of Limbo, and I don’t understand who anyone’s trying to impress. Are you also interested in a good, healthy game of Russian Roulette?

Now if there’s anyone out there with real knowledge about this issue, I’d be very interested in hearing from them. And Flamers, save it, I really couldn’t give a rat’s .... about what you have to say. Feel free if you must, but understand that it will have bearing on my emotions or feelings on this subject.

I will be doing my best to read between the flaming lines to find comments that are at-least-intended-to-be educational. My extinguisher is primed and ready.

Thanks for listening - and vape on. Safely, please.

 

[tc1]

I'm not all that worried about it. I think it's safe to say that most people who get into RBA's aren't people who were walking down the street and bought an ecig at the kiosk.

They are people who use sites like ECF and Youtube to learn about them, decide if it's something they want to try, and decide to try it. Those type of people will almost surely have read the potential risks of not knowing what you are doing before hand.

 

[Blix]

Of all the reasons that might bring us down, this isn't one of them IMO. I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[Baditude]

I feel the same way as you do, DPLongo. I believe its only a matter of time before some noob suffers a terrible accident because of ignorance or carelessness. I'm seeing more and more indications from posts of very new vapors who are getting right into rebuildable attys from the get go and you can tell from their questions that they don't have a clue about safety issues.

I see new and even experienced vapors recommending to noobs to try an RBA, and the OP was asking about a cigalike recommendation. Some people do not take into consideration of their recommendations and who they are offering suggestions to, and that is just flat out irresponsible and wrong.

The impact of an accident and the resulting negative media exposure will only fuel more adversity toward e-cigarettes in general and give the anti-vaping enthusiasts more fuel. I remember when I announced last summer to family members that I had successfully quit smoking with an e-cigarette, the first thing that came out of a couple of their mouths was, be careful because they heard those batteries can explode in your face. This is what the general public hears. Not that there have been thousands of e-cig users who have quit smoking and are doing it safely.

I guess that I'm a little more sensitive to the issue because I've had first hand experience of a protected battery have a hard short and going thermal in a mechanical mod. It's a scarey and rightfully unforgetable experience when it happens to you.

 

[Fury83]

I understand the concern and I am genuinely concerned by some, "some" being the key word, people's posts on here about setting up sub ohm coils and not understand things like how many amps, what type of batteries can actually handle it etc and so on. I think people read about other people doing it, people with much more experience and knowledge about what they are actually doing, and go wrap a sub-ohm coil for their <insert rba> without knowing much about what is going on when they fire that thing up.

I've seen people talk about their sub ohm coils and ask what types of batteries, type like protected/unprotected/icr/imr/ncr, to use for it and why...something you should genuinely understand before undertaking really any RBA in general. These are the things that worry me, not entirely due to legislative repercussions but that could be part of it. A failure with an e-cig and a lithium battery is no different than a tweaked flashlight and a lithium battery in reality. That said, flashlights aren't as scary to the general public or enticing to the political machine to tackle as e-cigs. So while I don't want anyone hurt, I also don't want vaping to be a pita.

I do think the one upmanship will taper off a bit but never go away. Like I said though, or tried to allude to, experienced folks with knowledge of what they are doing experimenting doesn't scare me, new people trying to emulate it does. There really needs to be a more accessible guide to the information people need for journeying into rba's and especially mechs with RBA's. It seems like everything is either old or not quite user friendly.

Anyway, there is my not educational and probably less than rational take on it. The cliffs being, I'd like new people to understand that you need to learn some things before doing what you see vets doing. That doesn't mean just seeing that you should use an AW IMR or Panny hybrid but understanding why, you need to earn a bit of the knowledge, not just take it.

 

[Oktyabr]

Nice posts everyone! Nothing really left for me to add except that mechanicals and RBAs are NOT the problem... it's how they are used (without proper safety knowledge). I had a half dead, broken Ego 650mah go thermal in my hand once. At least with a well built mech I don't worry as much about a thin metal/plastic tube going all axe murderer on me if it falls over or I accidentally sit on it or something. As already pointed out while the experience levels may vary an SLR rebuildable on top of a mech isn't something a newbie is just going to pick up at the local kiosk... There is a good deal of knowledge involved to even make the appropriate purchases, not mention getting it to work properly.

As for 0.3 and the like? These are the sort of extremists every hobby sooner or later develops a small contingent of out on the fringe. I call them "stunt vapers". The kid who finances a street legal 200mph racing motorcycle and has his friends video him riding wheelies down the express way at way over the legal speed limit is a similar situation. My own experience with SLR gives me doubts that any setup that low (quad coils and the like), while they might make an impressive tube video, are probably not, in the majority of cases, the most practical or efficient way of doing day to day vaping. I personally prefer right around 1.0 ohm (I have a 0.9 ohm dripper and a couple of 1.0-1.2 ohm RBAs) for good flavor, plenty of vapor, and consistent response throughout the battery charge cycle (4.2 to 3.6-3.8 volts for me).

Want to help prevent noobs from diving off a cliff into this stunt vaping scene? Make recommendations on better battery choices, especially opposed to some of the "kits" I've seen sold with next to garbage for bats and charger. Throw a link to battery safety in your signature or something. Post threads like THIS one so others might see a concern for battery safety that probably isn't as well emphasized as it should be.

 

[DPLongo22]

Excellent contributions, one and all. I thank you for your civility, and for you're commentary.

To Oktyabr, I agree with your "stunt vaper" tag, which is precisely what concerns me. They'd never be able to take motorcycles off the road, thankfully, but we're dealing with an entire industry still in a state of infancy. Squashing us would be easy, and I believe that there are those in our government who are just waiting for such an opportunity -

Let's all hope they don't get it.

 

[b0redagain]

I really don't think the media would care about it being the user's fault, they will just blame the device and the industry...the same way they do guns. I'll be happily vaping at 1.5 ohms and above because that's what does it for me.

Stay safe my friends.

 

[Ryedan]

As for 0.3 and the like? These are the sort of extremists every hobby sooner or later develops a small contingent of out on the fringe. I call them "stunt vapers".

Love the term 'stunt vapers' Oktyabr! Consider it stolen

I do worry about these guys. The only good thing is that in the past AFAIK when someone has done something dumb and had a battery blow causing injury it was reported correctly in the media.

 

[Oktyabr]

The point I tried to make in my first post is that a mech with or without an RBA is not the threat. As vaping grows in popularity, exponentially perhaps, sooner or later accidents *will* happen (there has already been one that I know about). As the majority of new vapers will be using your basic ego type battery and as the majority of mech owners are much more likely to be experienced with a higher degree of safety knowledge the odds are that the majority of such accidents will be of new vapers using equipment common to the new vaper, not advanced vapers using mechs and the correct safety precautions.

Just because a factory in china decided what battery to put in the tube does NOT imply a greater degree of safety. As I said, I have already had an ego go thermal in my hands. Don't think because it's cheap and relatively small that it is somehow without risk.

Is there a real threat in sub ohm vaping? Yes, of course. Especially with less than ideal batteries and safety practices. BUT most, like myself, are not the stunt vapers youtubing straight VG at less than half an ohm for visual effect. Is it technically any more inherent than any other vaping? No. A Li-Ion battery in a Provari hitting a tank at 2.0+ ohms can still result in the same catastrophic failure as a mech at 1.0 ohms and less. Circuits DO fail, so do protections.

Outside of physical damage it all comes down to amperage and the ability of a given battery to supply it.

 

[tc1]

I personally haven't heard of a single mishap with someone using a sub-ohm coil so far. On the other hand, I've heard of several mishaps with someone not properly using a battery charger.

My point being, we are dealing with electricity and chemistry ... even with something as simple and inevitable as charging our batteries. Like anything else, something bad can ... and most likely will happen, regardless of how simple and safe you try to make things.

Irregular and minor accidents RARELY are the cause of anti legislation. If that were the case, RC planes and helis would have been made illegal years ago.

If anti-vaping legislation happens ... it's going to be because of big business and ignorant people who believe "if I don't need or use it ... you don't either".

 

[Fury83]

I personally haven't heard of a single mishap with someone using a sub-ohm coil so far. On the other hand, I've heard of several mishaps with someone not properly using a battery charger.

Another good point, I've never quite understood buying a cheapo charger for $10 when there are good ones for $20. It's such an important part of the equation.

 

[DPLongo22]

Irregular and minor accidents RARELY are the cause of anti legislation. If that were the case, RC planes and helis would have been made illegal years ago.

While I certainly can't argue this particular point, my opinion, and subsequent concerns, are that the toy companies (associated with the RC stuff you referenced) had a bit more money, power & might than Eric, Brett, Drew & Associates.

I'm not saying I'm right, and I assure that I hope I am not, but I'm just fearful. I'll feel best if my initial concerns were nothing more than paranoia (...will destroy ya!) - and that it never happens. Like I said, I'm no expert...