Popcorn flavor?

[AmandaD]

I love that vaping stops me nibbling in the evening - no need for that sweet snack The last vice I would rather vape than eat is popcorn - so, has anybody made a popcorn vape that has that nice salty taste of real popcorn?

I bought popcorn (TFA) and Butter (Movie Theater) (TFA). But how do you get the saltiness of real popcorn (saline, what %)? I'm thinking that I should start with the popcorn flavor at 15% - what about the butter? (or forget it?)

 

[dannyv45]

Ha Ha most are trying to get rid of that popcorn taste that to much AP gives but your trying to enhance it. Maybe try a butter flavoring. It will add buttery taste and may increase saltyness. I don't think saline will help unless you use a lot of it but that will just thin the mix to the point of carto leakage I would think.

 

[AmandaD]

Thanks! I think I'll try popcorn at 13% and butter at 2% - I guess heavy on the PG since I don't want the sweetness of the VG. I can't actually imagine it will be anything but disgusting, but I have a mad urge to try it out LOL

 

[AmandaD]

Ok, I tried it:

0 nic
70/30 PG/VG
15% popcorn (TFA)
2% butter (movie theater) (TFA)

Absolutely delicious.....and with zero nic (I usually vape 12). I may keep this at 0 for an evening chain vape LOL

OMG must make more

(sampling in an IGO-L at 1.5)

 

[ninfreak]

you need to stop using that butter....it is dangerous Perfumers Apprentice - Butter Flavor

 

[AmandaD]

you need to stop using that butter....it is dangerous Perfumers Apprentice - Butter Flavor

There are an awful lot of flavors that 'may' not be safe on the TFA website....but I understand your concern

 

[ninfreak]

when linda(owner of tfa) says don't use this for vaping.........you shouldn't. butter flavor especially has a high amount of these harmful chemicals, not a trace like some of the vanillas, and creamy flavors.

 

[AmandaD]

I just realized that, reading the small print - thanks for pointing it out (my bad).

Bleh....guess that one goes onto the real popcorn LOL

 

[HilseeJ]

when linda(owner of tfa) says don't use this for vaping.........you shouldn't. butter flavor especially has a high amount of these harmful chemicals, not a trace like some of the vanillas, and creamy flavors.

I am both curious and skeptical of your claim (even though I hate to disagree with a fellow NIN fan).

The site does in fact say "****** This flavor should only be used in Food and Cosmetic applications."


However, one of the reviews posted on that very page is a review from an e-juice blend.

AND in the flavorist's corner that she refers you to, it says:

"Of course, if only a small amount of acetoin is in a flavor, then the potential likelihood of there also being diacetyl is very very small." and "research is being done on the effects of inhalation."

Which would lead me to believe that it's more of a disclaimer than an absolute no-no. Similar to where you see glass pipes that are for "tobacco use only."

Are there stronger warnings elsewhere, or are you just wanting to play it super safe?

EDIT:
After reading this thread:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s-may-contain-diacetyl-there-really-many.html

I can see why the original warning was said. But I'm confused as to why it's not a more prominent issue.

 

[dannyv45]

The concerns are from diacetyl tests that use very high concentrations and inhaled over very long periods of time. The amount used in standard vaping is only a fraction of that. But never the less if your going to make it an ADV then I would worry. The though is that not over doing it is OK but I wouldn't want to make it a steady daily diet of it. This goes for most custard flavors as well.

 

[smitty727]

I mixed up a batch of Caramel Popcorn the other night just because I had some Capellas Popcorn and it smelled sooo good. The mix came out kinda so so - needs a little something. So I put it up to steep for a while (2 days now) and I'll try it again in a couple more days. If it's not any better after a couple more days I'll start adding something to see if I can get a little more flavor. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any. My mix was 80% VG, 15% PG & 5% PGA with the following flavors:

10% Popcorn (Cap)
5% Caramel Candy (TFA)

Edit
After writing this I decided to drip a little to see how the steep is coming. After just 2 days steeping it's much better. The popcorn flavor is coming thru stronger but still don't have much of the caramel flavor yet. But I'm liking it!!!

 

[we2rcool]

The concerns are from diacetyl tests that use very high concentrations and inhaled over very long periods of time. The amount used in standard vaping is only a fraction of that. But never the less if your going to make it an ADV then I would worry. The though is that not over doing it is OK but I wouldn't want to make it a steady daily diet of it. This goes for most custard flavors as well.

I fear we're going to have to (strongly) disagree. But we TOTALLY understand why it's so easy to assume that these tiny 'trace amounts' aren't an issue. The safety recommendations limit exposure/inhalation to 5 - 25 ppb...thats parts per billion.

In a flavoring that has less than 1% (.6%) diacetyl/similar, when used at a mere 2% in a juice, we'd be vaping 1200 ppb. The details on how that number is calculated are pasted below.

TFA's website descriptions include their "trace amounts" (when noted) to be either "less than 1%" (which would likely be right in the range above, around 1200 ppb), or "less than .1%".

Here's a new example for the "less than .1%". Let's say that "less than .1%" was actually .05%. ::::grabbing calculator::: Using one flavor that contains .05% diacetyl/similar at 5% in a mix of 100mls of juice works out like this:

100mls @ 5% flavoring = 5mls of flavoring in 100mls of liquid. There is .05% diacetyl/similar in that 5mls of flavor (5mls x .05% = .0025mls of diacetyl/similar)...so there's .0025mls of the bad boys in that 100ml bottle. What percentage is that? (.0025 divided by 100) It's .000025% And that converts to 250 ppb.

Here's an easier calculator to use than the one we used below: Conversion-Calculator / Convert Measurement Units

So, the bottom line is that "trace amounts" like those convert to a minimum of 10 times HIGHER than the currently recommended "safe zone" for workers inhaling through their nose in a room.

Yeah, we're NONE too pleased about that either!

From here #4:

...Back to diacetyl/similar; from here: CDC - NIOSH Update - Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione: NIOSH Seeks Comment On Draft Criteria Document

For Diacetyl, a recommended exposure limit (REL) of 5 parts per billion (ppb) as an eight-hour, time-weighted average, (TWA) during a 40-hour work week. To further protect against effects of short-term exposures, NIOSH recommends in the draft document a short-term exposure limit (STEL) for diacetyl of 25 ppb for a 15-minute time period.

For 2,3-pentanedione [acetyl proprionyl], a recommended exposure limit (REL) of 9.3 parts per billion (ppb) as an eight-hour, time-weighted average, (TWA) during a 40-hour work week. The REL for 2,3-pentanedione in the draft document is based upon the lowest level at which the substance reliably can be detected using the existing analytical method, and should not be misconstrued to imply that 2,3-pentanedione is of lower toxicity than diacetyl. Further, NIOSH recommends a STEL of 31 ppb to limit peak exposures for 2,3-pentanedione on the same basis of analytic method limitation.
​

How much is 5 - 25 parts per billion? It's 0000005% - 0000025%

We have been almost entirely unable to find the percentage of the diacetyl/like chemicals contained in typical flavorings (GRRRRR) - but we did find a few from Baker Flavors in Russia http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbaker-flavors.blogspot.com%2F2010%2F03%2Fe-cigarettes.html (which is Vaping Zone's Gourmet Line). The Tiramisu contains the most at .6% diacetyl of the ones they tested back in 2010...and it's commonly mixed at 2%. Let's make 100ml :: praying our math is correct::: ...

100ml @ 2% flavoring = 2ml of Tiramisu flavoring in 100ml of liquid. 2 mls of Tiramisu flavoring contains .6% diacetyl (.6% x 2ml = .012mls of diacetyl)....so there's .012 ml of diacetyl in that 100mls of juice.

What's the percentage of diacetyl in that 100mls of juice? .00012%

Using this "ppb calculator" Parts Per Billion Conversion Chart (Fractions and Percent Converter, Percentages And Parts), we find one must enter 1200 ppb to equal .00012%

So, vaping that particular flavoring at 2% means we'd be vaping 1200 parts per billion, when the 'safe zone' for short term exposure/inhalation is 25 parts per billion.

Yes, we DO have reason to avoid these chemicals. Even if they're 50 or 75% less than the example, we'd still be in the 300-600 ppb zone. Of course, the raspberry flavor starts at .00009% diacetyl, and that works out to WAY less than 1ppb (around .012 ppb, if I calculated quickly correctly).

'Always glad to see posters concerned about the health aspects of the chemicals we're inhaling!

 

[HilseeJ]

I fear we're going to have to (strongly) disagree. But we TOTALLY understand why it's so easy to assume that these tiny 'trace amounts' aren't an issue. The safety recommendations limit exposure/inhalation to 5 - 25 ppb...thats parts per billion.

In a flavoring that has less than 1% (.6%) diacetyl/similar, when used at a mere 2% in a juice, we'd be vaping 1200 ppb. The details on how that number is calculated are pasted below.

TFA's website descriptions include their "trace amounts" (when noted) to be either "less than 1%" (which would likely be right in the range above, around 1200 ppb), or "less than .1%".

Here's a new example for the "less than .1%". Let's say that "less than .1%" was actually .05%. ::::grabbing calculator::: Using one flavor that contains .05% diacetyl/similar at 5% in a mix of 100mls of juice works out like this:

100mls @ 5% flavoring = 5mls of flavoring in 100mls of liquid. There is .05% diacetyl/similar in that 5mls of flavor (5mls x .05% = .0025mls of diacetyl/similar)...so there's .0025mls of the bad boys in that 100ml bottle. What percentage is that? (.0025 divided by 100) It's .000025% And that converts to 250 ppb.

Here's an easier calculator to use than the one we used below: Conversion-Calculator / Convert Measurement Units

So, the bottom line is that "trace amounts" like those convert to a minimum of 10 times HIGHER than the currently recommended "safe zone" for workers inhaling through their nose in a room.

Yeah, we're NONE too pleased about that either!

From here #4:

It was that exact post that I read in the other thread that had me concerned.

Sorry to hijack, but I have to ask - how do I know if my flavors have this in it? I have like 8 caramel flavors, a few more of vanilla and ice cream. But the ingredients aren't always listed...

EDIT:

In an effort to help contribute to the original question:

I love that vaping stops me nibbling in the evening - no need for that sweet snack The last vice I would rather vape than eat is popcorn - so, has anybody made a popcorn vape that has that nice salty taste of real popcorn?

I bought popcorn (TFA) and Butter (Movie Theater) (TFA). But how do you get the saltiness of real popcorn (saline, what %)? I'm thinking that I should start with the popcorn flavor at 15% - what about the butter? (or forget it?)

I have never heard of anyone trying to get a "salty" taste in their mix and I imagine that would be hard to acheive. Saline can't hurt in small doses. Get the medical grade, start with a few drops. Even if you don't taste the salt (most people don't), other users have testified that it does moisten up a mix.

However, I would definitely add Acetyl Pyrazine to the mix (http://wizardlabs.us/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=332).

I've seen many recommendations to dilute it more after you receive it, while I personally just add 1 drop to ~10ml. It does create a very buttery throat feel. Almost like you swallowed some butter but less disgusting. I add it to all my caramels, vanillas, anything where it would fit.

 

[AmandaD]

Most of my flavors are from TFA, and it lists on the website whether they are possibly at risk. My Capella flavors have no information - although I believe Vanilla Custard is being remade (of course I just bought a bottle of the original....).

The popcorn with butter is really very good. I'm torn between dumping it (again) or just keeping it. Even with zero nic it's fabulous....for some reason there is a feeling of saltiness, more than the taste - if that makes sense. Either way it's delicious! Guess I should try some with the AP instead.

 

[we2rcool]

It was that exact post that I read in the other thread that had me concerned.

Sorry to hijack, but I have to ask - how do I know if my flavors have this in it? I have like 8 caramel flavors, a few more of vanilla and ice cream. But the ingredients aren't always listed...

On FA's website there is an entire section of flavors devoted to ecigs. Those flavors (not the Kitchen Magic line) are tested to be free of the three main bad boys.

On TFA's website, you can click on each flavor and see if they're listed as having them. The descriptions typically only say 'trace amounts', but some same "less than 1%" or "less than .01%"

Of the other major vendors, there are handful of vendors that "claim" via email to be free of diacetyl, acetoin, & acetyl proprionyl...but when pressed, it appears none of them can provide proof of their claim. So everything else from the list in the very first post of that thread is suspect.

On the TFA site, in the section headed 'Flavorists Corner' there are instructions for learning how to discern them by taste.