Potential Explosions & a Provari?

[Sgt. Pepper]

VapourMonkey, if I recall right, rolygate stated that the only explosions that have occurred have been in tube mods with stacked batteries. Provari explicitly states to use AW IMR batteries. Besides all of the advantages with the Provari, one of the biggest reasons I went with the Provari is because it allowed me high voltage vaping without stacking batteries.

That being said, you can't stop stupid; stupid is as stupid does. One can give someone all the correct information, but you cannot save one from themself.

cheers,

 

[VapourMonkey]

Yep totally agree with you Sgt Pepper, i love mine for the same reasons.
A Provari is the only 'Mod' for want of a better word that i would consider using myself, simply because of its safety features and the safer chemistry batteries. Adding slots would make it the safest out there, even in worse possible scenario. And better imo than a blowout end cap that would direct all the energy in one direction.

 

[VapourMonkey]

The slots could even be covered with a thin sleeve, you wouldnt even know they were there.

 

[Shaitaan]

you arent going to need a blow-out cap OR slots in your provari you only need that one hole in the cap for safety, to keep pressure from building up inside the mod, and it's facing away from your precious face.....
.....for one, the incidents that occurred recently, they were mods that currently did NOT have any venting holes at all, and one of em was using 'stacked' unsafe batteries with other bad 'user' no no's (improper charging and cool-downs, not using safer cells, not rotating and keeping same used pairs together)....one of those manufacturers finally did add vent holes to their proverbial 'unsafe' battery housing
.....two, it takes some time for the battery to overheat before it does blow.....even if it was a couple of seconds, and even shorted, it's not instant, you will feel it overheat first...you just let go of the button and put the mod down to cool off and never use that battery again lol.... a 'sealed' battery or one without any venting holes, or unprotected mods n batteries have the greatest potential for any explosions to occur. provape did their homework when it comes to the safety of the provari.... your unit will shut down before it has the chance to overload anyways, barring a circuit board failure first, which is very doubtful..... nice tech post, D....

 

[Shaitaan]

This post may ease some concerns for Provari users.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-mods-update-february-2012-a.html#post5327522

TLDR : All known in-your-face type explosions have a couple of things in common. They used stacked batteries, and they happened on the first button press after loading freshly charged batteries.

With the Provari, you're using a single battery and a booster circuit, not stacked batteries. That fits with recommended practice.

In addition, if you know that battery explosions occassionally happen, and normally happen on the first use right after charging, you can hit that power button without vaping every time you load a fresh battery. That way it isn't near your face. If that causes no problems, then you can start vaping.

IMO, risk of an explosion/meltdown while on the charger is a much bigger risk. Everyone should have a safe-charging bag to limit that risk.

LOL a LiPo charging bag is not needed....most failures on a charger are caused by overcharging....you cant put batteries in MOST chargers and let em go overnight, you have to monitor them and take them off once they are finished....trickling past causes potential problems with the battery to overheat and could cause fires and batts to explode... you also can not put a battery just taken off the charger and put them into your mod and vape, or right out of your mod and put them in the charger after you just used the mod....that is also very unsafe. you need to give the batteries time to cool down first or you are creating a greater potential for battery failure... also, you must be sure you are using the correct charger for the batteries....you can't put 3v Nimh batteries in a 3.7v LiIon or LiPo charger and hope for it to be safe...

I have MANY chargers, and dozens of batteries of a few types, here in my home....I know what chargers go with the batteries that need charging....I mark my stack sets so they dont get mixed in with others.... I also keep battery sizes and types separate from each other and cycle them often.... all my batteries and chargers here arent just for my mods, I have similar ones for my electric RC heli's and planes too...being safe and diligent for every step decreases the chance of having any failure at all.... if you are in doubt at all about your battery or charger, then it's time for new ones... same goes for your mods...

 

[VapourMonkey]

Guys i don't think I am getting my point across, I'm not for one moment doubting the safety of a Provari and I understand the current thinking on safe vaping practises.
I am merely suggesting an added safety feature for the inevitable user who shoves something unsuitable in there. Therefore making an already well thought out device even safer.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I get ya Vmonkey. (For illustration purposes only. Sorry to provape, if they take offense) Here's a picture of my custom made super-t precise plus 18650 with vent holes--there are 3 sets of 3 vent holes on the tube... obviously you can only see 1 set.

While these 3 sets of 3 vents holes doesn't exactly meet the standards rolygate suggested, I believe they will accomplish what is needed to avoid an explosion in your face. What rolygate said: "The ideal design for a metal tube mod would be to have three milled slots in the tube body: three slots, equally spaced around the circumference, of around 50mm x 4mm, 2 inches x 5/32nds width. This cross-sectional area should allow the second-stage outgas to escape without causing an explosion, and a blowout plug would not be needed."

 

[evosil98]

Thats awesome. Did you do that yourself or took it to a shop?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Thats awesome. Did you do that yourself or took it to a shop?

No. This was custom made by David at Super-T. As far as I know this is a one-off.

 

[evosil98]

Wow thats nice. Just wondering if it's just drilled holes on the side?

It looks like a manufacture could easily adopt this method without altering the production

 

[Stubby]

you arent going to need a blow-out cap OR slots in your provari you only need that one hole in the cap for safety, to keep pressure from building up inside the mod, and it's facing away from your precious face.....

I admit that a runaway battery is unlikely with a Provape 1 or Provari (they both have the same basic protections), but you are wrong about the vent hole. First off it is not nearly big enough to vent a battery that goes thermal. The other problem is that the weakest part of both Provapes is the top cap as it is only pressed fit. The bottom cap is screwed in so is much stronger. For the safest design the top cap should also be screwed in (as the early Provape 1 was), then add the large venting slots.

In the very very slim chance of a battery going thermal with a revamped Provape 1 or Provari you would have a fire of course, as that is unavoidable, but no explosion and nothing blowing into your face, and no rocket ships with well placed vents.

 

[Frick]

LOL a LiPo charging bag is not needed....most failures on a charger are caused by overcharging....you cant put batteries in MOST chargers and let em go overnight, you have to monitor them and take them off once they are finished....trickling past causes potential problems with the battery to overheat and could cause fires and batts to explode... you also can not put a battery just taken off the charger and put them into your mod and vape, or right out of your mod and put them in the charger after you just used the mod....that is also very unsafe. you need to give the batteries time to cool down first or you are creating a greater potential for battery failure...

I've never read that advice for these type of batteries (AW IMR). I've read similar advice for RC batteries because of the huge heat buildup, but not IMR.

Do you have any sources to back that up? Because I believe a great many vapers do just that: take the battery that just died out of the mod and straight to the charger, or take the freshly-charged battery and put it directly in their mod.

 

[Baldr]

A lipo charging bag may not be a necessity, but it sure seems like a good idea to me. For $15 or less, you can greatly reduce the damage that an exploding/melting battery can do if it goes bad on the charger, which seems to be the most likely place for something to go wrong.

If you look around, you'll find examples of 123's and 18650's bursting into flames, exploding, etc. Those lipo bags are designed to limit the damage in that kind of situation, and they are designed for bigger batteries than we're using in our PV's. The downside to using them? You spend a small amount of money, and you can't as easily see the red/green lights to tell when it's done charging. That seems worthwhile to me to lower the risk of burning down my house.

 

[debook]

If it makes you feel more at ease then go for it. It's hard not to get scared by all the hype with what happened to that guy, but really if you follow the battery safety procedures you minimize the chance of that happening. For me personally, I never stack batteries anymore (which is why I love the Provari), use a high quality charger (Pila), let them rest 24 hours after charging and meter them before use. At the first sign of degraded performance a battery goes in the recycle bucket at work and I order a new one. I also only use IMR batteries 18500 or bigger for proper C ratings. I also meter everything constantly so there are no surprises. That way, whether it's my Provari, Helix with a giant 26650 battery or any other mod I know exactly what the status of my (and my wife's) mods are.

Also, I did some searching and didn't find an example of an 18650 exploding In an ecig - can you provide a link?

 

[Baldr]

Ultrafire 18650 3000mA exploded

That was an 18650 in a flashlight.

I've seen some other examples, if I notice more I'll try to remember to link them here.

I'm not saying that it's common. I don't think it is. What I am saying is that overall, most battery explosions/meltdowns seem to happen while on the charger, and a lipo charging bag seems like an easy and low cost way of limiting damage if that happens.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Ultrafire 18650 3000mA exploded

That was an 18650 in a flashlight.

I've seen some other examples, if I notice more I'll try to remember to link them here.

I'm not saying that it's common. I don't think it is. What I am saying is that overall, most battery explosions/meltdowns seem to happen while on the charger, and a lipo charging bag seems like an easy and low cost way of limiting damage if that happens.

What evidence do you have of this in regards to pv's

According to rolygate:
"Explosions seem to happen immediately after charging, on first use, on the first press of the switch. Every report with full details says this."

"ECF has had a total of around 8 reports of 'facial explosions' and 'rocket-mode fails' now. However, asking around vendors, many of them do know of events that were not reported on ECF and where teeth were knocked out or similar. This leads us to think there may have been about double this number - perhaps 15 blowups in total."

 

[Baldr]

Roly is pretty clear in that post that he considers meltdowns a separate category from explosions.

You should read the whole post. You appear to be ignoring parts of it.

For instance, in that same post, Roly also says :

All lithium battery types, either single or in pairs, can suffer from a meltdown including heat, gas and flame. There are no exceptions to this. There is no such thing as a 'safe' lithium battery of any kind. There is a difference between meltdown and explosion though: the explosions causing injury always happen to stacked batteries in metal tube mods.

and

All batteries can meltdown and cause a fire if faulty and/or abused.

If you don't want to use a lipo bag, that's fine with me. Over 99% of the time it won't matter anyway. And for those few occasions where it does, well, I don't care if your house burns down. I do care if my house burns down. A lipo bag will *not* help with an "in your face explosion", because you won't be using it while vaping. It will help with a battery problem that happens while it's on the charger.

If you want to pretend that batteries never have a problem on the charger, you go right ahead.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Baldr, thank you for your concern about whether I read rolygate's entire post. I did.

You made an explicit statement claiming that most explosions/meltdowns occurred while on the charger: "What I am saying is that overall, most battery explosions/meltdowns seem to happen while on the charger..."

I'm not discounting your claim and merely asked what evidence you have of this. Instead of answering my question, you decided to insult me by telling me I was apparently ignoring parts of rolygate's post; and furthermore, I had something against your suggestion of using a lipo bag and how you didn't care if my house burns down. What? LOL

Dude, I'm not your enemy. I don't even know you. I just wanted to know how you came up with the conclusion that most battery explosions and meltdowns happen while on the charger--the question still stands. This question has nothing to do with my feelings about a lipo bag, that batteries never have a problem while on the charger, or anything else.

Hope things get better for you.

peace-out,

 

[debook]

It's all good, if using a charging bag makes you feel more at ease then go for it. Certainly won't hurt anything.

It's hard not to get caught up in the fear and hype of what happened to that guy in Florida and the backlash against mods and big batteries. It's interesting as that guy was using stacked cr123's in a home made mod from what I read a few days ago and to my knowledge there has never been a similar situation with a larger battery like an 18650 as they generally have a C rating high enough to be appropriate for our uses. That flashlight explosion involved *stacked* 18650's in a completely different type of application. Notice the similarity? Stacked batteries - friends don't let friends stack batteries!

My only point in this chat is that there are more direct actions you can take. I'd rather you spent the $20 on a multimeter than a charging bag. If you meter your batteries for the DC voltage before and after charge you would catch any problems before a failing cell was even put on the charger and had a chance to explode. The battery safety thread here on ecf has great instructions for how to check them and what to look for. Doing that, using a good quality batteries, mods with safety features like a Provari or many others, and not leaving them on the charger once charged is the safest you can make it IMO.