Power Delusion - Ego Twist vs. iTaste MVP

[HawaiiVPR]

I use both, an ego-c upgrade battery with an iclear16 for outside the house, and my MVP2 w/ iclear30-s for home use. Both serves it purpose of exactly what I want to do; the ego for compact vaping with no reduction on vapor/taste output , and MVP2 for a more customizable vaping experience w/ tons of vape and taste.

Bottom line, you simply cannot go wrong with the MVP2, it does everything and more you will need for a great vaping experience!

 

[Baditude]

I really don't get buying a disposable device. The panisonic NCR18650PD 2900 mAh rechargeable battery commonly used in devices like the SVD,Vamo,SID,eVic, ect has a greater capacity than the MVP2 and can be bought for about $12.
So basically the MVP comes with $12 worth of battery and when the battery wears out you throw it away. I think that's why it's being marketed so heavily. Battery sales don't help the device manufacturer.

I typically get nearly 3 days per charge with steady use with my MVP. Will you get that long with a single 2900 mAh Panny 18650PD ? Maybe, maybe not. Only needing to charge my MVP every 3rd day is a huge benefit to me, and I can continue to use it while it is being charged.

The duty cycle for most rechargeable batteries is 300 charges. Both the MVP and the Panny's can be expected to be replaced at that time. Since the MVP only needs to be charged every 2 - 3 days, that works out to over 2 - 3 years that I expect the MVP to last based on duty cycle. The Panny's will likely need to be replaced before that.

Not everyone wants a huge lightsaber for a mod, especially when they leave the house. The convenient size, lightweight, and portability combined with the battery capacity of the MVP wins hands down in that department for me. I'd be highly surprised to hear of any Vamo or Evic lasting a year without threads being stripped (Vamo) or the body cracking (Evic). If I get two years from my MVP for just $50 I feel I've gotten my money's worth.

 

[vincentk18]

I typically get nearly 3 days per charge with steady use with my MVP. Will you get that long with a single 2900 mAh Panny 18650PD ? Maybe, maybe not.

The duty cycle for most rechargeable batteries is 300 charges. Both the MVP and the Panny's can be expected to be replaced at that time. Since the MVP only needs to be charged every 2 - 3 days, that works out to over 2 - 3 years that I expect the MVP to last based on duty cycle. The Panny's will likely need to be replaced way before that.

Not everyone want a huge lightsaber for a mod, especially when they leave the house. The convenient size, lightweight, and portability combined with the battery capacity of the MVP wins hands down in that department for me. I'd be highly surprised to hear of any Vamo or Evic lasting a year without threads being stripped (Vamo) or the body cracking (Evic). If I get two years from my MVP for just $50 I feel I've gotten my money's worth.

Is that 300 charge cycle rule-of-thumb good for most Li-Ion batts?

 

[Baditude]

Is that 300 charge cycle rule-of-thumb good for most Li-Ion batts?

I was being conservative.

"Battery duty cycle refers to the approximate number of recharges it can be “cycled” through before the battery will no longer hold a charge. Duty cycles can be 500 charges but will vary depending on the core battery composition." - Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries

"The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery is about two to three years or
300 to 500 charge cycles, whichever occurs first. One charge cycle is a period
of use from fully charged, to fully discharged, and fully recharged again. Use a
two to three year life expectancy for batteries that do not run through complete
charge cycles." - Lithium-Ion Battery Maintenance Guidelines

"300 - 500 cycles" - Battery University

"Under normal discharge loads, Li-Ion batteries have a life span of between 300 and 500 cycles. With moderate use, Li-Ion batteries are expected to deliver approximately 80% of their rated capacity after 300 cycles or about one year of use." - Understanding Lithium-Ion and Smart Battery Technology

 

[Racehorse]

Bottom line, you simply cannot go wrong with the MVP2, it does everything and more you will need for a great vaping experience!

I see so many positive posts about this mod, sounds like a great device.

 

[Thunderball]

I have an 8 month old MVP that still goes into the third day of vaping (as in two full days and it dies mid morning of the third)

I also have some pretty new Panny 2900PD's from Orbatronics to go in my Provari's..... (which are hellacious batteries)

The Pannys still dont last as long as the MVP.

When all is said and done, what Bad and others say about the MVP is just spot on...... 39.00 and shipping for a brand new MVP2 ? Are you kidding? Is that not the best deal in the vaping world ?

I truely Love my ProVari's and have just ordered a Semovar for 300 bucks just to check it out......... But I will not be without an MVP. Its just such a great back up device. I take it camping and to MC Rallies and loan it out to friends and family. One stays in my truck just in case I forget my other mod or forget extra batteries.

39.00 bucks ? No brainer.

 

[lgboogie19]

Some people also dont want to have to take batteries out and charge them remotely. Im lazy and i like to just plug in my device. I love the mvp.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

As the ladies usually say, bigger is better.

The answer is yes to both "larger" and "better quality". I can't recall exactly, but the eGo Twist's default voltage is more like 3.4 or 3.5 volts, as most eGo batteries are. The typical replaceable rechargeable battery cells used in mods come off the charger at 4.2 volts.

The Joye eGos are a regulated battery. They are charged to 4.2 volts (like the majority of e-cig batteries are) and regulated to put out 3.4 volts to ensure a consistent vape from beginning to end.

The non-Joye eGos are unregulated. They are charged to 4.2 volts (like the majority of e-cig batteries are) and have an initial output of 4.2 volts and decreases as the voltage drops, until it requires a recharge at about 3.2 volts.

The Joye eGo-C Twist is a Variable Voltage device. They are charged to 4.2 volts (like the majority of e-cig batteries are) and use a buck boost circuit to produce a variable output voltage between 3.2 and 5.0 volts, whichever output is selected. They do not have a "default voltage".

There is also a Joye upgrade version that can be switched between "regulated" (3.4 volts constant) and "unregulated" (4.2 freshly charged, decreasing as the battery is used). It is also charged to 4.2 volts.

It's not as confusing as it sounds. The majority eGo or replaceable batteries charge to the same voltage and have the same number of approximate charge cycles in their lifetime. Most e-cigs/Pvs with a built in battery will last at least until the next Great Improvement comes along and the need to upgrade would call for their replacement anyway. IMHO Lol

Relax, Enjoy!

 

[Fulgurant]

Source please.
I can crank up my joye twist to 4.8 Volts with a 1.8 ohm load.
This pulls 2.67 Amps which is under the 3A limit I found here ->http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ego-type-models/298270-amp-limit-ego-twist.html#post6329264l
This makes it use 12.8 Watts which exceeds the MVP2's stated max power of 11 watts.->iTaste MVP V2.0, Long-Lasting 2600 mAh Variable Voltage VV Box Mod - Best Electronic Cigarette | E Cigarette Manufacturer| Innokin

Are you sure your Twist is putting out 4.8 volts at 1.8 ohms? 'Cause PBusardo's chart seems to indicate that the Twist maxes out at 3.7 volts on a 1.5 ohm coil, which gives us ~2.5 amps and ~9.1 watts. Here's a screenshot the chart if you're curious.

Just for fun, here's the oscilloscope reading he took with the Twist cranked up to its max setting (4.8 volts). Not quite rock steady.

For reference, PB's review showed that the MVP 2.0 maxed out at 3.3 volts on a 1.0 ohm coil, good for 3.3 amps and 10.89 watts. Here's the oscilloscope of the MVP, which, in contrast to a number of popular removable-battery mods, is remarkably smooth: MVP set to 4.7 Volts.

Of course, I could have read or calculated something wrong. If so, then I'd be grateful for a correction.

Even the $28 vamo V2 can go up to 6V and has a 5A max current

Vamo oscilloscope at 5 volt setting.

The VAMO seems to max out at 4.5 volts on a 1.5 ohm coil. That's 3 amps and 13.5 watts.

I really don't get buying a disposable device. The panisonic NCR18650PD 2900 mAh rechargeable battery commonly used in devices like the SVD,Vamo,SID,eVic, ect has a greater capacity than the MVP2 and can be bought for about $12.

SVD oscilloscope at 5 volts.

(Also here's the VTR's oscilloscope reading for fun, even though you didn't mention it. It's the most similar-looking mod to the MVP off the top of my head.)

I got tired of taking screenshots, but I think the point is fairly clear: the performance of these devices isn't always exactly as advertised; the performance contrasts between them certainly aren't always intuitive. For someone who's not looking to push more than 11 watts, the MVP seems to deliver power much more smoothly than some of its leading competitors in the entry-level mod market.

So basically the MVP comes with $12 worth of battery and when the battery wears out you throw it away. I think that's why it's being marketed so heavily. Battery sales don't help the device manufacturer.

Baditude covered this part admirably.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

The voltage setting is probably off on one device or the other.
Or it could be the placebo effect due to the persistent promotion of the MVP2 which the twist lacks


This is a common mistake.
The Amperage is determined by voltage and resistance, not battery size. (assuming you don't exceed the batteries current capability of course)


Source please.
I can crank up my joye twist to 4.8 Volts with a 1.8 ohm load.
This pulls 2.67 Amps which is under the 3A limit I found here ->http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ego-type-models/298270-amp-limit-ego-twist.html#post6329264l
This makes it use 12.8 Watts which exceeds the MVP2's stated max power of 11 watts.->iTaste MVP V2.0, Long-Lasting 2600 mAh Variable Voltage VV Box Mod - Best Electronic Cigarette | E Cigarette Manufacturer| Innokin
Even the $28 vamo V2 can go up to 6V and has a 5A max current


I really don't get buying a disposable device. The panisonic NCR18650PD 2900 mAh rechargeable battery commonly used in devices like the SVD,Vamo,SID,eVic, ect has a greater capacity than the MVP2 and can be bought for about $12.
So basically the MVP comes with $12 worth of battery and when the battery wears out you throw it away. I think that's why it's being marketed so heavily. Battery sales don't help the device manufacturer.

Yes, this makes sense to me, though I'm no engineer. I think that voltage regulation has more to do with the better vape that we get on the upgraded devices than anything else. I have found from my own experience that I do get a better vape on the MVP than on a Twist. However, I get better vape on the eVic than I do on the MVP. I get a better vape on the Provari than on the eVic and a better vape on the Semovar, than I do on the Provari. The only reason for this phenomenon is voltage regulation, either that, or it's all in my head. However, I've had so many vaper friends tell me the exact same thing, that it certainly plays a role. Anyway, my two cents.

 

[Baditude]

...Baditude covered this part admirably.

Thanks, Fulgurant. I knew what you posted was true, but I wasn't about to do all the dirty work that you were willing to do. Excellent research work.

 

[st1y1]

Ive had my MVP for 48 hours now, TOTALLY DO NOT REGRET buying it! If anything I wish I have only bought this as my starter device and not the other two batteries I bought!

The only complaint that I do have with it, and its minor, is the button at the base for activating the usb charge port protrudes out and makes the MVP wobbly when setting it on a table. I fear that over time the button will get worn or pushed into the case. I usually lay it down on the side that has no buttons.

Other than that, I love it. Long battery life, checks ohms, puff counter and can use either VV or VW. Its a win all round for the price.

There's an easy fix for that wobble, takes about 10 seconds. Get a small screwdriver & push down right next to the button in the indention, slide button & push on other side of button in indention & done. No wobble. Get youtube videos to show you exactly how to do it. Its proven & it aint gonna break your mvp.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Anyone that knows me also knows that I would put the MVP V2, the iTaste 3.0 and the Sigelei V3 in the top three best APV's under $100. Have them all, and love them all, and use them all, but for totally different reasons in each case. I have to say that I do prefer the Sigelei over the MVP V2 slightly, and think it's the best full APV in this category. But it's about $20 more plus batteries and charger. So, for $40 or so, the MVP V2 would get my vote, though I prefer the Sigelei V3 at about $85 (all in) the best. Most would agree that the iTaste 3.0 is still the best stick battery on the market today. My two cents, YMMV.

 

[StarsAndBars]

Amperage. The larger the battery, the more amps used.

Sorry but not factual.

 

[Fulgurant]

Thanks, Fulgurant. I knew what you posted was true, but I wasn't about to do all the dirty work that you were willing to do. Excellent research work.

Anytime, man. Thanks for all the info you've given all of us.

Yeah, I figured you knew all of that and more -- but the information isn't easily accessible, which is one of my little long-standing peeves about the youtube revolution. Video reviews certainly have their place (and don't me wrong; I love vids like Phil Busardo's and Todd's, to name a couple), but I wish we had more old-style text reviews too; they're easier to reference. Incidentally, and by the same token, I've found your blogs invaluable.

One of these days I'll gather a bunch more shots and post 'em all up.

 

[Baditude]

Amperage. The larger the battery, the more amps used.

Sorry but not factual.

Granted, there is more than size of a battery that determines amperage. That has to do with voltage and resistance.

If I'm not mistaken, jefsview was thinking amps in continuous discharge rate. A larger battery is more likely to have a larger continuous discharge rate in amps than a smaller battery will have. There's a good reason why most 18650 IMR battery have 10 amps CDR, some with even 30 amps. An 18350 IMR can only muster 6.8 amps. It's because of battery size.

 

[Baditude]

Anytime, man. Thanks for all the info you've given all of us.
Incidentally, and by the same token, I've found your blogs invaluable.

Thanks for the props. I just added another blog post with more in-depth info on batteries.

Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

While everyone is here; can anyone explain why the MVP 2 and iTaste 3 have a bottom end watt limit of 6.
It's obvious that you can switch to voltage mode and accomplish less than 6 watts (ie. 2.4 ohms @ 3.3 volts = 4.5 watts).
I often use less than 6 watts for light flavoured juice like watermelon.

Just wondering.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

While everyone is here; can anyone explain why the MVP 2 and iTaste 3 have a bottom end watt limit of 6.
It's obvious that you can switch to voltage mode and accomplish less than 6 watts (ie. 2.4 ohms @ 3.3 volts = 4.5 watts).
I often use less than 6 watts for light flavoured juice like watermelon.

Just wondering.

No, I don't know why they start at 6 Watts, but you are the first vaper I've heard that likes their juice at less than 6 Watts. Of course, the Wattage can vary wildly by vaper, but seems that most vapers like their batteries at about 6.5 - 7.5 as the normal range for something like a good clearomizer. Once you get too high, which I don't know what that is, really, but for most north of 8 Watts, seems to me, the juice starts to burn and you get a burnt taste and a reduction to the flavor and less enjoyment. I'm strictly talking about basic starting gear here, as there are a lot of setups that won't work that well at less than 10 Watts, so YMMV. I'm more or less referring to the entry level starter gear here. Good luck in your VapeQuest. I'm sure a wise Vet, or new comer, will be along shortly to answer this question. I vape at 7 Watts most of the time on my carto tanks, so I've never been in any danger of missing my sweet spot yet. Good luck to you!

 

[K_Tech]

While everyone is here; can anyone explain why the MVP 2 and iTaste 3 have a bottom end watt limit of 6.
It's obvious that you can switch to voltage mode and accomplish less than 6 watts (ie. 2.4 ohms @ 3.3 volts = 4.5 watts).
I often use less than 6 watts for light flavoured juice like watermelon.

Just wondering.

Simple answer? The same reason they don't build car seats that adjust for folks under 4' tall. Practicality. For most folks the "Sweet spot" bottoms out around 6-7 watts, really no reason to build something to cover a lower range.

My Zmax devices go down to 3 watts, and I'm here to tell you that's really pretty useless (to me at least)...