Premuim liquids vs bargain liquids... ingredient differences?

[spawnsharks]

All of this talk about the premium brands and how wonderful their product is makes me wonder what the manufacturig difference is. VG and PG are pretty standard fare, as far as I can tell. Liquid nicotine from different sources may play a part in flavor, I don't know.

So that leaves the difference to be in the flavorings. I am sure that recipe plays a big part. Just like cooking, having a perfect balance of flavors is where the magic lies. I am a wonderful cook, and adjusting the flavor of a dish is an art, it takes experience and knowing what each ingredient and spice does to the overall experience. Quality of ingredients also plays a big part.

Carrying that over to liquid, what flavorings do the premium mixes use, and what do the bargain vendors use? I assume that the smaller, premium vendor prides themselves on quality, so they test flavors and dial them in until it's just right. I also assume that they are using a higher quality of flavoring.

This said... I am sort of considering DIM (Do It Myself), and am looking for what people have found to be the best flavorings. But really, I am just curious about what makes a $15 bottle of liquid different from a $5 bottle.

 

[03FXDWG]

The difference is the time it took to perfect the recipe, the fancy bottle some come in, the pretty label, the rent & electric bill for the store, the advertising money, the employees & the web site developer & maintenance.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

But really, I am just curious about what makes a $15 bottle of liquid different from a $5 bottle.

Sales & discount codes..


Not sure what your defintions of "premium" & "bargain" are, but I've gotten some really good juices at 40-50 cents/ml -- and not even in gigantic bottles!


Your DIY questions might get more responses over at the DIY sub-forum.. DIY E-Liquid

 

[Schwiggiddy]

The difference is the time it took to perfect the recipe, the fancy bottle some come in, the pretty label, the rent & electric bill for the store, the advertising money, the employees & the web site developer & maintenance.

Pretty much this. Plus cost for raw materials may vary, i.e. all tobacco flavorings are not created equally.

 

[BillyWJ]

All of this talk about the premium brands and how wonderful their product is makes me wonder what the manufacturig difference is. VG and PG are pretty standard fare, as far as I can tell. Liquid nicotine from different sources may play a part in flavor, I don't know.

So that leaves the difference to be in the flavorings. I am sure that recipe plays a big part. Just like cooking, having a perfect balance of flavors is where the magic lies. I am a wonderful cook, and adjusting the flavor of a dish is an art, it takes experience and knowing what each ingredient and spice does to the overall experience. Quality of ingredients also plays a big part.

Carrying that over to liquid, what flavorings do the premium mixes use, and what do the bargain vendors use? I assume that the smaller, premium vendor prides themselves on quality, so they test flavors and dial them in until it's just right. I also assume that they are using a higher quality of flavoring.

This said... I am sort of considering DIM (Do It Myself), and am looking for what people have found to be the best flavorings. But really, I am just curious about what makes a $15 bottle of liquid different from a $5 bottle.

Most vendors will most likely not reveal what they use, as there's so much competition right now, and they don't want you to know a couple of bottles of caramel and vanilla flavoring for a couple of dollars can replace their $10-16 bottles. The threads and sites covering DIY are very interesting, when they try to clone popular flavors, and some of the "tricks' to accentuate flavor, like adding vinegar.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them use the same stuff you can buy from Lorann or the other vendors. Why reinvent blueberry, when it's available ready made?

 

[carrielsal]

There are some vendors that make their own flavor extracts, such as Bryce's eLiquid, Nicoticket, and Ahlusion. My ADV's are coffee and vanilla blends. There is a huge difference between Bryce's and NT's vanilla and off the shelf flavors that other vendors use.

 

[Roselie]

The difference is the time it took to perfect the recipe, the fancy bottle some come in, the pretty label, the rent & electric bill for the store, the advertising money, the employees & the web site developer & maintenance.

I would agree with this too. Time being the most prominent. It takes time to perfect a recipe and to extract your own flavorings.

I'm not always impressed with boutique/premium e juice prices. My ex-husband worked at an upscale restaurant and he would often tell me they made the most money on *drinks* not the food they created. That soda they charged $3 for cost them literally pennies. 5 cents maybe. And don't get me started on the markup with the alcoholic beverages, it was something like 300% more or less. What you paid for mostly was good service, yes good food as well, but a lot of it was the ambiance and bragging rights .

Don't get me wrong the food at his restaurant was incredible, I thoroughly enjoyed eating there, but I also ate free lol. Premium e liquids are very similar. They are impressive in taste to be sure (well, most are anyways) but the markup on them is pretty outrageous. A lot of what you pay so much for is like the ambiance at a restaurant and the ability to say yes, I only vape *insert premium brand here*. I'm not in the least bit trying to flame anyone who thoroughly enjoys these brands or found they only like certain vendors, this is just my opinion based on what I know about the restaurant industry and the bit of research I've been doing in regards to DIY just recently.

Most likely I'll get people saying I'm jealous because I can't afford them. All I have to say is while yes, I stick to a budget, before I quit smoking part of that budget was a $56 carton of Marlboro Lights every 5 days or so. That amount will get me 2 30ml bottles of say 5 Pawns which, for me, would last longer than a carton of cigarettes if that's all I vaped exclusively.

 

[Oxtail]

A lot depends on the specific flavor you're looking at.

A real life example would be if you want a great sangria with a mix of all sorts of strong flavors, you probably wouldn't use super expensive wine anyway because the flavor will be so mixed with all the strong fruits.

On the other hand, if you're just ordering a glass to sip on, the quality of the wine will be much more noticeable.

I like pure fruit flavors so I'm very partial to high end vendors who use good natural flavorings. If I want an apple, I want a juice that tastes like a natural delicious apple. But someone can make a great Dutch caramel apple pie a la mode where the subtleties of a good apple flavor gets lost in everything else anyway, so they can use a lesser apple flavoring.

If anyone can point out a budget apple flavor that tastes anywhere near as natural and good as Highbrow or Dripeez's apples, I'm all ears. I would love to pay less for my juice. But my experience has been that fruit flavors at cheaper vendors tend to be more artificial candy flavors(usually jolly rancher type) instead of a real natural fruit flavor that's more expensive to extract.

 

[suspectK]

I am just curious about what makes a $15 bottle of liquid different from a $5 bottle.

Me thinks you can't get a "premium" liquid for $0.50/mL..

You have to try it for yourself, and see.

www.giantvapes.com

 

[Oxtail]

Me thinks you can't get a "premium" liquid for $0.50/mL..

You have to try it for yourself, and see.

Welcome to Giant Vapes

Most of the vendors known for their great natural fruit flavors(Dripeez, Ahlusion, Highbrow, Free State, etc.) are around $0.50 to $0.60 per ml. Above that amount and you're paying more for the artistry of mixing the flavors than the flavors themselves. Not many of the vendors who sell for above $0.60 per ml actually offer juices with 1 pure flavor.

 

[jgoss]

Sharks, you should try some DIY. I have found that there are enough good resources to make it pretty painless. And to answer your question, the only difference is marketing. You and I and "cheaper" vendors have access to the same flavors and techniques that the premium vendors have. We all use the same flavorings, you just have to find what you like. I have actually gotten some bottles of "12 year old oak barrel aged premium cardboard tube wax sealed sprinkled with fairy dust and farted on by angels juice" that were total crap. I'm glad I won them and didn't actually spend good money on them.

 

[bones1274]

Carrying that over to liquid, what flavorings do the premium mixes use, and what do the bargain vendors use? I assume that the smaller, premium vendor prides themselves on quality, so they test flavors and dial them in until it's just right. I also assume that they are using a higher quality of flavoring.

The difference between many premium vendors and "big bulk" vendors is that the premium guys will extract their own flavors from fruits or steep vanilla beans for weeks at a time to get the true flavors, whereas many big bulk vendors just splash a few drops of Flavorart flavorings or grab some supermarket shelf bakery flavorings or vanilla extract to make large bulk lots at a time. There is a huge flavor difference/cost difference/time difference between extracting actual flavors and using extracts you bought from a food vendor.

 

[EleanorR]

Never underestimate the value of genius flavor chemistry/mixmastery.

Really.


Both ingredients and mix mastery make a HUGE difference.

 

[ambientech]

Never underestimate the value of genius flavor chemistry/mixmastery.

Really.


Both ingredients and mix mastery make a HUGE difference.

This^^^
Some just cant understand there is more to it than just putting a few drops of flavoring in to a bottle of PG or VG to make a great juice. While they may be pleased with MBV type diy at home many are not. Many enjoy the more complex juice that not everyone has the talent to create. Some don't have the palate to appreciate "12 year old oak barrel aged premium cardboard tube wax sealed sprinkled with fairy dust and farted on by angels juice" so they call it crap.

 

[Pete54]

I won't get into the "claims" made by some people that their flavors are "extracted from organically grown sources fertilized with fairy dust. Just know that you can "claim" anything you want to on the internet.
I will say that the difference between a so-so juice and a great one, IMO, is the incredible patience required to perfect a blend. I've spent over three months working on a single recipe. Every time one ingredient is adjusted it affects the others. You have to take steeping into account as flavors change, sometimes drastically, as they steep. It's work, plain and simple. Some vendors are "mixers" and some are artists! Thankfully there are many more artists selling juice today compared to the early days and I'd gladly pay more for a Picasso!

 

[spawnsharks]

All wonderful insight. My next step is going to be in the DIM direction... But I was really just curious about the differences in the premixed stuff from vendors.

Yes, some have high overhead which accounts for some of the premium cost, however, I can completely appreciate the flavor extraction and flavor tuning and perfection aspect as well.

I have faith that if I go down the path of mixing it up myself, that I have a pretty refined palate for food and drink, so this will be similar, but its own adventure.

 

[ambientech]

I won't get into the "claims" made by some people that their flavors are "extracted from organically grown sources fertilized with fairy dust. Just know that you can "claim" anything you want to on the internet.
I will say that the difference between a so-so juice and a great one, IMO, is the incredible patience required to perfect a blend. I've spent over three months working on a single recipe. Every time one ingredient is adjusted it affects the others. You have to take steeping into account as flavors change, sometimes drastically, as they steep. It's work, plain and simple. Some vendors are "mixers" and some are artists! Thankfully there are many more artists selling juice today compared to the early days and I'd gladly pay more for a Picasso!

Agree but it is not fair to group all vendors into the false claim bit. Some do in fact make many of their own extractions.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

I won't get into the "claims" made by some people that their flavors are "extracted from organically grown sources fertilized with fairy dust. Just know that you can "claim" anything you want to on the internet.

Juice vendors making the claim is one thing..

But the end-consumer vaping the difference is quite another...

 

[rogergendron1]

there are differances between glycerin vegitable glycerin, and organic vegitable glycerin.... same with pg there are varying qualities.

that being said.... you can fing a bargan juice that has a quality base and flavorings..... take mount baker vapor for instance, you can order your juice in max vg or whatever ratio u want and the base and flavorings will be quite good for its price

top e juices though use the best tasteing and highest quality pg and or vg in there juice and have custom flavorings made to the same standards, take halo for example, halo is the best pg based e juice i have ever had !!! i dont know what kind of pg they use but its the only brand i can vape that has that mutch pg in it !!! now take HHV they have a purity line of organic VG e juice thats not comarable to anything else !!!! its soo thick and gooey and full of rich flavor i cant believe they can get it that good !!! you can not even taste the VG at all its pure thick flavor !!! those are just a few higher end e juices but there are more like it...

now take MBV for example... the make e juice for the savy comsumer, but that does not mean they make cheap juice from cheap base.... they use the best base they can get wile maintaining low cost for the consumer all wile finding a way to use standard flavorings in a manner that make the juice taste the way it should.

its up to yo what you want to vape but if your going to stick with bargan e juice find a vendor that uses quality ingrediants to make it