Prevent melting plastic and aid Nicotine regulation idea.

[heXy]

Couple ideas that came to mind (mid drip) lol

For one, could cartridges not all be made from Delrin, to help with overheating and melting plastic issues?

And two, for the regulation of the nicotine, seeing as most of these elaborate models have circuits in them already, would it be possible to code a chip to not allow power to be applied for more than 4 to 5 seconds at a time (help with heat) and to also not allow more than 4 - 6 uses per 30 minutes so as to help keep the nicotine induction down?

I understand the timing's may need to be changed, but would this not solve most of the issues?

Naturally modders will find away to deactivate these safeties, but that would be at there own risk of course...



Edit: Typical property values of Delrin

I understand that different Nic levels will play a roll, but they could easily regulate an illegal level.

 

[rachelcoffe]

Well...heXy, I've only ever vaped with Boge cartomizers...and they're made of metal. No problems there. Honestly haven't seen any evidence that "melting" materials is a common problem. At best, it sounds like a problem that a newbie might have once or twice, due to incorrect usage and/or crappy product. Also if we're speaking specifically to cartridges...most vapers learn early in that cartridges suck (because of how they work, not because of "melting"), and they stop using them. They switch to dripping, or cartomizers. At any rate...I think a "Delrin-only" rule as described above would be far overstepping regulatory boundaries (and plain common sense).

As to the nicotine idea you proposed...I don't like it! 24 to 30 seconds of use per 30 minutes??! Geez man. That's only a hair shy of not vaping at all. This incredibly unreasonable, excessive sort of vaping-lock would mean most vapers would have to go back to smoking.

I realize you vape no-nic juices, and all power to you on that count. But no-nic vapers tend to forget that nicotine isn't the enemy - at safe levels (which is what we're vaping), nicotine is no more harmful than the caffeine in your coffe. The enemy was and is the massive amount of toxins, carcinogens, tar & all that other deadly crap that is in tobacco smoke. That's why we quit smoking & started vaping, to get away from that!

Nicotine is legal & at the levels we're vaping it is no more harmful than drinking a cup of coffe. I don't believe there are any grounds for the sort of "locks" you proposed, and I think it goes far beyond the bounds of reasonable regulation.

We invite regulation of e-cigs as electronic merchandise (which is what they are), and of e-juice as a tobacco product (since the optional nicotine is directly derived from tobacco). But the regulation should only go so far as to ensure quality manufacturing, appropriate labelling, and the legal restriction re: sale to minors. As to nic strength, yes...there should be a limit on what strengths can legally be sold to consumers. But that should only go so far as to ban unnecessarily deadly strengths (which are far, far higher than anything vapers are vaping).

I appreciate that you were just putting some thoughts out there, and that you meant well. But draconian-style regulation is neither welcome or necessary.

 

[heXy]

Ok for one, I vape 18mg on a regular, and I drip. I only make my own blends non nic. I smoked a pack a day for 16 years, so yes, I have an addiction.

I did state that the timings would have to be changed, and based them off of 18mg and 24mg liquids that I vape.

A 5 second drag is a lot, I only personally hit 4 seconds. So 5 to 6 halls would be the equivalent of a cigarette based on those numbers.

Draconian? I believe that's an overstatement in itself. Any thought's in my opinion to help get these devices on the market are GOOD thoughts.

You're post if anything, will only make me keep those thoughts to myself from now on...

And if HC and the FDA can melt a cart, it's banned.

If you can remember back when you smoked analogs, when you lit one up, how many seconds were your drags off of those? And how many drags did you take before it was out?

It may seem small on screen, but those seconds count big time. I took 2-3 second drags and averaged about 6-7 drags per smoke in a social atmosphere. At home in front of the computer, 3/4 of the thing burnt away in the ashtray.

 

[rachelcoffe]

heXy, I didn't mean to discourage you from sharing your thoughts. And as I said, I realize you meant well.

Most e-cigs already have a cutoff (ranging from 5 to 16 seconds), to prevent accidental overheating. Higher-end mods often have an on-off function too, so the device can be turned off to avoid accidental activation in your pocket or what have you. No argument on that score...you're proposing something that already exists.

But using regulation - legal authority - to limit how often I can take a drag on my PV, is wholly unnecessary & unwelcome. And the example you gave (24 to 30 seconds per 30 minutes) - that is draconian, no ifs and or buts. It would lead to most vapers returning to smoking.

It's also not a feasible plan - there are a gazillion e-cigs & mods out there right now that have no such "lock" - and the knowledge to build mods is out of the bottle too. Why would anyone willingly submit to such unattractive & unnecessary restrictions? They'll have to pry my beautiful ProVari from my cold, dead hands before I give it up!

There's also no scientific or legal basis for such restrictions.

I do understand that getting market approval for e-cigs & e-juice is a desirable thing: we all want that. But you have to understand...vaping is infinitely safer than tobacco smoking. We don't need to apologize for doing it, and we don't need to bend over backwards to make market authorization happen. The way things are right now - with no usage "locks" - is perfectly acceptable & does not pose an obstacle to market authorization.

Anyway...I'm sorry if I offended you. You should always feel welcome to share opinions & thoughts here. Just don't be surprised if other people share counterpoint opinions & thoughts in response.

Happy vaping dear & hope we can be friends again

 

[heXy]

LOL we were never NOT friends, you're entitled to rebuttle, and I'm entitled to challenge it. And as my edit states above, while on a screen those numbers do seem small, I was basing it off of the strengths I use. I took 4 drags off of this device when it arrived 3 weeks ago, of 24mg, and my fingers went tingly and I received an instant dizzy spell.

And this is from someone who smoked DuMaurier regulars for ten years straight. So there is a danger here. Smoking more than a cigarette in a half hour is dangerous. And that's because of the level of nicotine you're taking in (amongst the other 4trillion chemicals once lit lol)

An average cigarette of regular strength has between 1-2.5mg of nicotine.

Don't take any of it the wrong way, I love vaping, and will never look back. I feel boat loads better, haven't had a chest pain or neck pain in weeks.

But at first, there was a definite learning curve. I wanted to pull on this thing like it was a harmless toy, almost like how it's being advertised. But I learned quickly that it's definitely not a toy and should be treated as a cigarette as long as nicotine is in that bottle.

Edit: To be honest, I took a touch of offense to the comment about the suggestion of Delrin use as being out of the bounds of PLAIN Common Sense. That was a bit of an insult to my intelligence.

 

[VAPOINSANO]

now now you 2 play nice lol

i believe we all are entitled to our opinions..

if we share ideas+thoughts they should be viewed as such!

these boards should be equivalent to a proper conversation

its tuff enuff not to know the temperment of posts,
let alone the words we occastionally choose.

remember if you dont have anything nice to say ...?

only my nickel

least it was'nt another descriptive
usa/can shipping post hurrah!

 

[heXy]

I must be lucky with CP. My shipment from BC will be here tomorrow (a day early)... Yay, finally have a built eGO-T tomorrow morning. Dripping was getting extremely tiring while out and about.

Not to mention while driving... I couldn't vape at all with drip, god forbid if a police officer saw me fiddling around with something below the window, I'd get a distracted driving charge now cause of the cell phone thing.

BUT I NEED MY NICOTINE when driving to keep my BP at normal levels due to the stupidity of other drivers.

I get enough attention from the law having a Focus with 230hp and a blow off valve :/

 

[rachelcoffe]

LOL we were never NOT friends

Glad to hear it, heXy!

Re: the Delrin dear...didn't mean to insult your intelligence at all. I was simply saying that using regulation - legal authority - to mandate that only Delrin could be used (which would exclude metal, or melt-resistant plastics) - would be way overstepping the boundaries of regulation, as well as the purpose of such. My metal cartomizers are awesome, and no amount of vaping is ever going to melt them, lol. Common sense dictates that regulation be used only when needed. I see zero need for all cartridges & cartomizers to be made out of Delrin.

---

Also wanted to add: a drag on your PV is not the same thing as a drag on a cigarette. Vaping works differently than smoking. You're usually going to take longer drags on your PV than you used to take from cigs. Learning this is part of the newbie's learning curve.

A smoker can take a hard, quick drag & get lots of smoke. But it doesn't work that way with vaping. In fact the harder you draw on your PV, the less vapour you're going to get. When you vape, the key is to take a drag with a consistent, moderate strength into your lungs (or mouth) for at least 5 seconds. You also usually don't hold it in for as long as a smoker holds in smoke.

---

Drag length when vaping also varies depending on what battery you're using, what voltage, what atty/cartomizer, and what juice.

Case in point: when using my standard Boge cartomizer (2.7 to 3 ohms) on my Mega eGo, I often take a drag of 10 seconds. Slow & even. But if I were using a 1.5 ohms LR cartomizer on my ProVari at 3.7v, the vapour would be hotter, using juice more quickly too...& so I'd go for a shorter drag (say, 4 seconds).

---

The other thing to bear in mind is that unlike smokers (who can just keep puffing away)...vapers aren't constantly dragging on their PV. You take a few puffs, a few drags...and then you set it down for a minute or two to let the atomizer/cartomizer cool.

I would respectfully disagree that there is any problem with vaping 1 to 2.5mg of nic in a half hour. The reason I say this is because most vapers vape more than that in a half hour (sometimes a lot more), with no ill effects. I can go through a mL of 20mg juice (which contains 20mg of nic) in only two hours or so, easy. Other times I go a few hours without vaping at all. I respect your point of view on this, but it's overly cautious in my opinion & not supported by the science re: the safe use of nicotine.

I took 4 drags off of this device when it arrived 3 weeks ago, of 24mg, and my fingers went tingly and I received an instant dizzy spell

I've never vaped 24mg - it's too strong for me. For some folks, it's not strong enough lol. Which just goes to show that everyone has their own nicotine comfort zones & tolerances hon. BlitzkriegTim for example, vapes really low-level juices...like he's mixed juices as low as 2mg. David (Dusty_D) also vapes low-level.

It's all a matter of preference & tolerance. Just because my current all-day vape (Cola 'Tri' e-juice, 20mg strength) is too high, or too low, for some folks...doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. It's still well within the bounds of safe-level usage.

It's also true that in many cases, a vaper's nic tolerance will be higher than a smoker's. This is because you're no longer taking in all manner of deadly, carcinogenic crap alongside the nic. More often than not, when a smoker's body says "ok, that's enough for now" it's not because they've had enough nic. It's because their body is saying "OMG please stop poisoning me for five minutes." I definitely consume more nicotine now as a vaper than I did when I was a smoker. Yet I feel better than ever. That's because I consume it at a safe level, that also falls within my comfort zone. So yay!

I do agree with you that e-cigs aren't toys, lol, and that people should be mindful of their intake. But vaping is infinitely safer than smoking...and once a newbie gets past the earliest bumps & gets the hang of it, it's really smooth sailing. Things like figuring out your nicotine comfort zone, how to drag properly on your PV, how not to fry your atty, which setup works best for you, etc etc etc...these are all common rites of passage; not a call for excessive regulation.

---

P.S. Well said, V.I.!

 

[heXy]

I agree with you, but to be clear, I didn't state to remove all metal carts, I was talking about replacing cheap plastic (like what came with my Joye 510 kit) with Delrin, that's all. Metal would never melt due to the heat from a tiny atomizer. But should be considered a positive and much healthier replacement for regular plastic carts.

And I said taking in MORE than 1-2.5mg of nic in a half hour is dangerous. A cigarette on average contains 1 to 2.5mg of nic.

I think the issue here may be the way I'm writing the post. It sounds good when I'm typing it, but it's not reading the same way for others. I will have to be more elaborate so as not to leave too many blanks. My apologies, common mistake.

 

[VAPOINSANO]

I get enough attention from the law having a Focus with 230hp and a blow off valve :/

yea hexy,
drippin becomes a lesser of 2 evils here my friend
that rig sounds incredible!!!

you are so correct in saying very dangerous to drive+drip!
i only did it once on the QEII south heading into calgary w/ my gal
@ 120kms(tad slow 4 me lol)..

well would'nt you know it i "almost" lost it...
scared the bejesus outta me!!
and im a very seasoned driver w/ a great driving history
yes its a true story....lol

well a swift glance over @ my wifes poor white knuckles on the dash
(was surprized she did'nt cuff me or swear at me also)
and that was it...dripping time was over 4 ever in any moving vehicle!!!
insano as i am, in hindsight it would of been a whole lot easier just to let her drip for me doh !!!

i do get so much from this forum
but i cant describe how much i enjoy
the great conversations i read on them!

2 or more total strangers discussing
all sorts of interesting topics
learning and sharing things we would/could
not imagine!

this is a great forum+
these are good times

 

[heXy]

haha, vapo!!! I almost made that same mistake, but couldn't muster the b@**'s to do it!!!

It's an ongoing build, a good friend of mine is a professional welder of specialty metals, and spends his day building race cars. If anyone's into that scene at all, they will find me crewing this summer at shannonville and kayuga with Maxwell's super fast little single cam civic hitting a 9.11 quarter mile on 48lbs of boost! lol

 

[VAPOINSANO]

haha, vapo!!! I almost made that same mistake, but couldn't muster the b@**'s to do it!!!

It's an ongoing build, a good friend of mine is a professional welder of specialty metals, and spends his day building race cars. If anyone's into that scene at all, they will find me crewing this summer at shannonville and kayuga with Maxwell's super fast little single cam civic hitting a 9.11 quarter mile on 48lbs of boost! lol

Or with Splitfire if Pauls still around

"freekin awesomeness hexy"

im sure there alot of speeddemon/rodders here!

you can tell by the avi's+some posts too!

man,
it may being easier to see what your not into!!

 

[heXy]

It's a great sport. And a great way to spend a hot summer day (and sometimes weekend)

I fix all their computers, and in return, they build and repair my little Ford curse lol

 

[dopeh]

I hit my reo for 4-5 seconds, but regularly hit the 10 second cutoff on my eGo lol

 

[heXy]

10 seconds on a 510 with a plastic cart, is cartridge suicide... Tried it, tasted plastic, have v-notches to prove it. So obviously some models require more work to aid against this sort of thing.

I can say that when I looked at the cartridge, I went back to analogs for almost a week in fear of inhaling plastic (which is extremely toxic, look it up)

It was a bad suggestion I guess. And I will no longer defend it, and removed my subscription to it.

 

[dopeh]

lol not a bad suggestion, the cart material is crap and so is the filler... I use drip tips only. The only bad suggestion was the 5 second cutoff imo.

 

[heXy]

And two, for the regulation of the nicotine, seeing as most of these elaborate models have circuits in them already, would it be possible to code a chip to not allow power to be applied for more than 4 to 5 seconds at a time (help with heat) and to also not allow more than 4 - 6 uses per 30 minutes so as to help keep the nicotine induction down?

I understand the timing's may need to be changed, but would this not solve most of the issues?

To be fair, I did cover my .... with those original timeouts.

 

[dopeh]

lol true..

 

[smokum]

I long gave up on "cartridges", both 510 and the 901 style (whistle tip), simply because of the need to "index" them properly over the bridge to avoid that melting. Another mistake many newbs were making (myself included at the time), was to use the shipping cart-like cover that comes on an atomizer by adding their own wadding, as it is longer and fit far too deep into the atomizer (again creating melting & burning regardless of indexing).

As far as nicotine intake, or regulations to control intake, it is impossible to do comparisons between intake and absorption rates from combustion vs vaping to date. Even more so when comparing to a product that is "burning" plant material at high temperature and consists of induced known chemical poisons that produce an active byproduct when combusted to aid in the nicotine absorption of cigarettes. It's an argument that will no doubt continue debate for a much longer period of time than "I'm" willing to wait on for sure. Self regulation of intake from vaping is a personal choice, much like the personal individual intake of caffeine, alcohol, food, water, etc, all of which affects each person differently based on their own tolerances, and all which in abundance "may" make you ill or "may" kill you.

For myself, anyone or any regulatory body can go get bent when it comes to attempts at governing my personal enjoyment of "any" substance (food, drink, whatever), to gain my personal satisfaction of life's little pleasures. Self education and regulation is key, bodily awareness critical, and general happiness paramount.

I trust NOBODY wholly when it comes to what or how my life (or well being), will be or is affected. Rather, I can appreciate the offer of information that further allows me to personally investigate for myself the topic at hand, and to make an informed decision on how/what it will or will not affect regarding my body at what levels or risk I so choose.

 

[heXy]

It was a suggestion, that is all... I'm nobody important here and my thoughts are in no way going to manifest into reality.

Not a good idea? Ya, maybe not. But I still stand behind replacing cheap plastic carts with Delrin to help avoid melting issues.

It happened to me on my first day of use. And from reading posts all over this forum, it's not uncommon at all.