Yuppers. Regulation is also what allowed big tobacco to "enhance" their products with ammonia, nitrates, and all the other crap. I would expect them to do the same with juice. Not looking forward to crackotine.
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Yuppers. Regulation is also what allowed big tobacco to "enhance" their products with ammonia, nitrates, and all the other crap. I would expect them to do the same with juice. Not looking forward to crackotine.
My humble opinion is: Learn to DIY. After that stockpile 'cause it's gonna get ugly. Why do I have this opinion? Check out some of the sites that sell nic as a large part of their juice line. Good Prophets is having a 50% off all DIY ingredients. Wizard Labs is still closed because of "moving". Xtreme Vaping is showing bulk quantities of nic juice as Sold Out. 'jest sayin' All disturbance because of the POSSIBILITY of regulation. Imagine what it will be like when the FDA gets their grubby little paws into vaping.
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Regulation is only good if its done by people, not the government, they will tax the hell out of juices and mods to make it costing more than cigs...
If the vender doesnt tell u whats in the juice, then dont buy it... i mean... naturally if a company uses harmful chemicals or toxic chemicals take make you sick 1 of 2 things will happen...
1. They go out of business
2. They change their juices
Also, the only thing that should be in juices at max is propylene glycol, vegetable glycerine nicotine, and flavors... which flavors are extracts and not oils,
If the vender doesnt tell u whats in the juice, then dont buy it... i mean... naturally if a company uses harmful chemicals or toxic chemicals take make you sick 1 of 2 things will happen...
1. They go out of business
2. They change their juices
Also, the only thing that should be in juices at max is propylene glycol, vegetable glycerine nicotine, and flavors... which flavors are extracts and not oils,
There are many long-term studies of nicotine use without inhaling smoke from the burning of organic matter.
Just check out the Swedish snus studies, which have a 30-year time frame.
They show that nicotine by itself is not really an issue for most people.
Basically, if your doctor says you have a condition that precludes using caffeine, then the same would apply with nicotine.
That is a common concern, although I'm not sure why it should be.
There is not much to be gained from adulterating the normal mix that is in eliquid.
--PG is very cheap and easy to acquire
--VG is very cheap and easy to acquire
--Flavorings are cheap and easy to acquire
I don't see anywhere that an eliquid manufacturer would benefit from trying to make it even cheaper.
Nicotine has been proven to be actually beneficial to your body and as for regulation once they find a way to tax it and with the huge amount of people switching to ecigs it will quickly sky rocket the prices of eliquid particulary if its taxed per mg of nicotine
Well said...
Looking back from 60 years old it looks to me that we now have a couple of generations who expect everything to be regulated.... that nothing is OK if the government has not told you it is OK first..... I notice it with people who are afraid to use their ecigs in public, even in their cars, because someone might see them and the perception might be they are doing something wrong and they might get hassled even though they aren't doing anything illegal..... we expect to be ruled...... oops, drifted a little off topic there...
I've spent significant time in a hardcore quit-smoking forum, and a good portion of them hate electronic cigarettes.
And one of the main red herrings they throw out there is that it is not FDA approved so we don't know what's in it or if it is safe.
But they seem to have no problem with Chantix.
That's incredibly ironic when you think they were smoking cancer sticks forever. I guess that was OK as they are FDA approved. But then that leads to the question "Why quit then?".....
Each of us is responsible for his own health. If one doesn't think ecigs are safe or that there hasn't been enough research, he shouldn't use them until satisfied that they're safe.
Don't know what's in your juice? Ask the company who makes/sells it. If they're not forthcoming, you don't have to buy. If they lie to you and it affects your health, you have a legitimate reason to seek redress. Unless you make juice yourself or are qualified to test it, you have to trust SOMEBODY--whether the FDA or a reputable retailer (who has an interest in maintaining his name and having customers who don't keel over).
What the person who isn't convinced of the safety of vaping must not be allowed to do in a free republic is to tell another person who believes it is safe that he may not do it. That's why it says, "the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," not "the right to do only what the majority tells you they think you ought to do." But then, the USA has quit operating on this principle in many ways for a long time.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner."
well hello there 13.1er...im running my second half in march too...congrats to you
I always like an example of regulation that doesn't involve the FDA, but highlights the absurdity of how regulation usually works...
There was a big outcry because of toys being imported that had lead on them. Lead and children don't mix so people were justifiably upset so the regulation machine went into action. It took awhile, but the result is that all toys have to be tested by a certified third party lab, except for the one corporation that was the one that imported the lead tainted toys. The craftsman who makes, by hand, wood toys with no paint or stain finish has to pay to have a lab test them while the large company that imported the lead coated toys is exempt.
Just because the concept of a regulation is very sound and everyone can agree it is a good thing to eliminate, like lead on things children play with, does not mean the actual result makes any sense or actually helps those it was meant to help. The example I used is true and happened in the US. For another, you could see what happened to Bucky Balls.
I have more respect for the agency that brought us the lead on toys and Bucky Balls craziness than I do for the FDA.
There was a big outcry because of toys being imported that had lead on them. Lead and children don't mix so people were justifiably upset so the regulation machine went into action. It took awhile, but the result is that all toys have to be tested by a certified third party lab, except for the one corporation that was the one that imported the lead tainted toys. The craftsman who makes, by hand, wood toys with no paint or stain finish has to pay to have a lab test them while the large company that imported the lead coated toys is exempt.
Just because the concept of a regulation is very sound and everyone can agree it is a good thing to eliminate, like lead on things children play with, does not mean the actual result makes any sense or actually helps those it was meant to help. The example I used is true and happened in the US. For another, you could see what happened to Bucky Balls.
I have more respect for the agency that brought us the lead on toys and Bucky Balls craziness than I do for the FDA.
Unfortunately we tend to go overboard with regulations. What always starts as good intentions usually ends up being bad for consumers and makers alike. Lets look at California for example. They love to regulate. They have 3 major port city's. Ideal farming conditions for lots of different things, Livestock population to support industry. Yet they over regulate and instead of thriving they are broke. Regulation is needed, over regulation is not. From where I sit it looks like the company's who stand to profit are setting regulation. We see how this impacts us as a whole in a very negative way.
It is scary to think what regulations may be arbitrarily put in place.
The FDA has banned flavored tobacco because it could be enticing to new and /or underage smokers; this has already taken effect as of last year.
If small juice vendors could be regulated out of business and base products for DiY juice making where to be controlled items; that would mean larger manufactures would have to fill the demand gap.
In a war between Big juice lobbyists and Big tobacco Lobbyists, I think one has the advantage on protecting their market share.
Just the thought of limited near flavorless pre-packed cartridges with a maximum nicotine level far below what anyone would want to use urrrgh, what then; the nasty warning labels, the Over the top sin taxes and the inevitable bans on public usage.
Thanks so much inmortus, I have yet to get my starter kit and already I dont know if I should just give up now or start hording like some doomsday prepper
Btw: the petition needs more signatures before feb 12. Americans! Please sign this petition - 2,346 2,188 signatures left to get an official response. Don't let the FDA take away your right to vape.
The FDA has banned flavored tobacco because it could be enticing to new and /or underage smokers; this has already taken effect as of last year.
If small juice vendors could be regulated out of business and base products for DiY juice making where to be controlled items; that would mean larger manufactures would have to fill the demand gap.
In a war between Big juice lobbyists and Big tobacco Lobbyists, I think one has the advantage on protecting their market share.
Just the thought of limited near flavorless pre-packed cartridges with a maximum nicotine level far below what anyone would want to use urrrgh, what then; the nasty warning labels, the Over the top sin taxes and the inevitable bans on public usage.
Thanks so much inmortus, I have yet to get my starter kit and already I dont know if I should just give up now or start hording like some doomsday prepper
Btw: the petition needs more signatures before feb 12. Americans! Please sign this petition - 2,346 2,188 signatures left to get an official response. Don't let the FDA take away your right to vape.
I only vape Johnson Creek VG Smoke Juice.
They're already FDA registered. Produced right here in Wisconsin.
I think that regulation, will mostly put the companies that produce, inferior or potentially unsafe products out of business.
Like the stuff you see in some tobacco shops or mall kiosks.
Other than sales tax and shipping. I can't see the cost of juice or cartridges, going up dramatically. No way they will ever tax it like tobacco. The medical community admits that vaping, is a much healthier option. Now that Big Tobacco has bought in. They'll do anything they can; to make sure that they're #1 in sales.
But the afterbirth, will still be business as usual, for their competition as well.
They're already FDA registered. Produced right here in Wisconsin.
I think that regulation, will mostly put the companies that produce, inferior or potentially unsafe products out of business.
Like the stuff you see in some tobacco shops or mall kiosks.
Other than sales tax and shipping. I can't see the cost of juice or cartridges, going up dramatically. No way they will ever tax it like tobacco. The medical community admits that vaping, is a much healthier option. Now that Big Tobacco has bought in. They'll do anything they can; to make sure that they're #1 in sales.
But the afterbirth, will still be business as usual, for their competition as well.
The idea of regulations and banning are great for the market. Just float the idea of banning out there, let fear do its magic, and suddenly sales are skyrocketing. Make it an actual ban, and there's another market that will gladly take care of the consumer.
Regulations are inherently bad if they are coming from another. Regulations in place from a parent are, at times, deemed completely outlandish by a child. 20 years later when the child becomes the parent, those same regulations are great, necessary, well reasoned.
If the industry chooses not to self regulate as one big happy family working together, then another entity may come forth to offer new set of regulations that will suddenly create motivation for the people in the industry, who are not consumers, to come together and act as if they are one big, reluctantly, happy family. More like in-laws.
Banning to make a thing completely disappear = myth.
Regulations are inherently bad if they are coming from another. Regulations in place from a parent are, at times, deemed completely outlandish by a child. 20 years later when the child becomes the parent, those same regulations are great, necessary, well reasoned.
If the industry chooses not to self regulate as one big happy family working together, then another entity may come forth to offer new set of regulations that will suddenly create motivation for the people in the industry, who are not consumers, to come together and act as if they are one big, reluctantly, happy family. More like in-laws.
Banning to make a thing completely disappear = myth.
If they regulate like restaurants are regulated, I'm all for it. The Dept of Agriculture already licenses home kitchens for small commercial activity. They just make sure cleanliness and safe storage/preperation procedures are in place. I have no problem with someone mixing this at their kitchen sink, but it would be nice to know the sink doesn't have cat sh.t in it. A list of ingredients would be nice as well.
My fear is, because it's nicotine, satan incarnate!, they will effectively regulate the small juice producers out of the market. Leaving us at the mercy of big tobbaco again. and we all know how well they take care of us.
My fear is, because it's nicotine, satan incarnate!, they will effectively regulate the small juice producers out of the market. Leaving us at the mercy of big tobbaco again. and we all know how well they take care of us.
...and to exemplify how regualtions quickly get out of hand, the lead paint regualtions intended for making childrens toys safer also ended up including the paint used on motorcylcles and ATV's designed for riders under 12. The result was a ban (because they all had lead based paint) that forced dealers to remove them from sales floors and affected more than $100MM in existing inventory.
I think that might be a bit naive. The government has a penchant for squeezing every last nickel out of the consumer.
My fear is that it will be lumped in with cigarettes, and made to expensive for small vendors to be in business and compete with bigger companies.
And if it becomes the same as cigarettes in the FDA's eyes and big tobacco gets their fingers in it. what is to stop them from putting all of the other harmful and addictive additives in ejuice that is found in cigarettes. They put this stuff in their product to make it more addictive and increase profit anyways, and if an ecig is the same as a cig what, or even who, is going to stop them?
Marlboro flavored ejuice steeped and fermented in chemical treated Marlboro tobacco... YUMMY!
And if it becomes the same as cigarettes in the FDA's eyes and big tobacco gets their fingers in it. what is to stop them from putting all of the other harmful and addictive additives in ejuice that is found in cigarettes. They put this stuff in their product to make it more addictive and increase profit anyways, and if an ecig is the same as a cig what, or even who, is going to stop them?
Marlboro flavored ejuice steeped and fermented in chemical treated Marlboro tobacco... YUMMY!
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