Pricing discussion

[Kent Brooks]

Is there anything in laymans terms that explains what these FDA regulations are proposing that going to effect small businesses? People ask me but I'm not well read on the subject and would like to be but this forum moves to fast for me

The regulation, as currently drafted - will eliminate 95% of the industry. What will remain - Big tobacco and a hand-full of other well-funded liquid manufacturers. My best estimate - 10 lines of (small) liquid.

 

[rudedog]

then go get it somewhere else.noones holding a gun to your head....duhhhhh.sorry im not normally a .... but this chaps my hindend

edit,sorry for the blurting out but just drove me bannanas someone typing something like nicoticket is making them purchase anything from them.on another note banana isn't what id say is up@the top of my list of flavors I like.now that being said I had taken a leap of faith that this would be a "good"vape.well I was soooo wrong on that point for sure.THIS STUF ROCKS AND I DONT LIKE BANANNA juices...well all the ones I tried before...Rick

Here's the thing, I love Nicoticket. My all time favorite flavors from any vendor are Radioactive, CLS, H1N1 & Frenilla. I can't live without them. Clark's service is the absolute best in existence. His presteeped eliquids are among the best in the industry. But charging $12 bucks for a 15ml sample of an unsteeped short run flavor is ridiculous. Clark, have you forgotten that there are other highly acclaimed and rising eliquid vendors that have similar flavors (like Nana Cream) that are available all the time for a lot less money? I can get 30ml of the super popular Nana Cream for $3 more than you charge for 15ml... and I can get it any time, not just this week.

I had completely stopped looking at other vendors after getting hooked on your amazing juice. I honestly don't even want to look for other vendors to try new flavors. To try a 15ml bottle of Banana Pudding will cost me $14.31 with the cheapest shipping option. $1 per ml. of unsteeped eliquid is not what brought me to Nicoticket. If it had been steeped for six weeks I could have justified the very high price much more easily. In sales customer perception is key. My perception is that we're paying a lot more money for a much less ready eliquid. I know you have said that ingredients are becoming more expensive but even many top vendors are now less expensive (and they aren't raising prices).

Please don't misunderstand, I'm a big fan of Nicoticket. You make all my favorite juices (vaping The Virus while typing this!). I am constantly planing my next order so I can keep a healthy supply of all my favorite NT eliquids, but at this point.. at these prices.. I'm pretty much done with the short runs. I can get known, highly popular, similar flavors from other top vendors for considerably less cash without having to buy on a specific day or week.

I love the idea of short runs. If this one wasn't overpriced and under-steeped I'd be all over it. Truthfully, I think a short run every week at these prices may drive business away and I'm only telling you this because I really like you as a person.

 

[sc12]

I read everything to here with great interest. Good points on both sides. While SR's were initially exciting (still are really), I started to feel like every two weeks would be best overall.

With new regs inevitable, something will have to change for sure. I think rather than cave to BT, several small operations will need to morph into single multi-owner businesses. Finding the right partners will be tough. You have to cut through the bs and find a good match for attitudes and what skills each brings to the table. It's no longer your decision but instead a lot of compromise.

Ideally, I would love to see (someday) NT with a minimum of 20 - 30 regular offerings. Too few and folks are constantly searching elsewhere, too many and quality or at least the perception of it may falter. (not to mention the space required and a bunch of other details)

 

[penguiness]

In it to win it. I am with you, but forgive me if I stock up in the next 30 days so I am more on a two bottles a week schedule

 

[CorallineAlgae]

then go get it somewhere else.noones holding a gun to your head....duhhhhh.sorry im not normally a .... but this chaps my ...!!

Wow. So much for not being labeled a hater after very politely voicing the same concerns many other Nicoticket fans have been asking about for a while now.














done

 

[5spike]

I am staunch believer in paying for quality. As long as it sticks around!

I'll continue to purchase the e-liquids that are my staples, pretty much whatever the cost. After all, I continued to buy cigarettes as the price spiraled from the 29 cents a pack that they were when I started smoking in 1961 to the $7.29 a pack that they were when I finally walked away from them in 2012. And if the cost is high I'm certainly not going to vape crap. I will follow Nicoticket into the abyss.

After finally jumping into vaping with both feet, and completely giving up smokes, I was on a serious liquid buying frenzy. I easily spent a couple hundred dollars within a month or so, just trying to find flavors that would keep me interested and away form smoking.

I bought everything from bargain basement to "premium" to everything else in between. I found some really great flavors, and others that were terrible. Pricing between the two did not necessarily matter. I got crappy cheap juice and crappy expensive juice! Needless to say, I wish I would have tried NT sooner!

I like that Nicoticket offers premium liquids at prices that are still much lower than most other "premium" brands. They also have the added value of incredible customer service, and being active in the community.

In life you don't always get what you pay for, but IMO, with Nicoticket you get more than you pay for.

You're one of the few vendors that when you say this, I actually believe you. I get what you've been saying in some of your previous posts. A ton of these companies are going to have "party time" for 2 years but then realize they aren't going to have any cash in hand to continue when the poo hits the fan. I use to pay $5 for a pack of stinkies, and I'm easily in the top 5 cheapest states to smoke. I'm still saving cash. I don't cough up things in my sink that I could give their own area code to anymore. I've got another hobby in this. I can actually take my dog for a walk to where he's tired now (and I'm not overweight, but smoking killed my energy).

I'm not going away from Nicoticket unless the juice starts stinking. The truth is that I was craving stinkies long after I quit. Nicoticket was the primary vendor that gave me a reason to never go back. Now cigarette smell repulses me, but I'll gladly smell it while I'm explaining to a smoker what that strange gadget in my hand is.

As I get closer to that year mark, thank you for all you and the Nicoticket crew does for me, and that definitely includes people who post on this forum! I spent 13 years of my life inhaling death sticks.......never again.

After trying many vendors, some cheaper and some more expensive even some GREATLY more expensive i can honestly say i will be a customer of Nicoticket for as long as i have a need for juice. In my humble opinion these juices are some of the best on the market. No matter the cost i will continue to feed my infection!

If you look deep in my history - I've fought them (price increases) tooth and nail from beginning. I like the position of being a reasonably priced vendor and I believe we deliver the best "total value" in eLiquid. That said - (and here's your hint) - the vendors that exist exclusively on the Internet are in for a rude awakening (you're already seeing it in California with AB 1500). So, what is the alternative? (leaving you to guess here) Those retailers whom opt to put products on their shelves - demand margin. The distributors whom make larger production capacity and wider distribution possible for small companies like ours - demand margin. Wider distribution isn't optional - it's pretty much mandatory to continue to exist. In order to do that, the pricing structure is going to have to change. That's it, really.

Now, please take note, those of you that have supported us in our infancy (NOW), and beyond, will NOT be forgotten. We have a plan... I've maintained since the beginning that it's our regulars whom provided this opportunity - and that investment *should* pay dividends for as long as we continue to exist. In the short term - I'd stock up... but in the long term, those of you that have been supporting us have good reason to feel good about your investment.

Can I get a AHMEN BROTHA'S! Infected!

 

[mistmonster]

The regulation, as currently drafted - will eliminate 95% of the industry. What will remain - Big Tobacco and a hand-full of other well-funded liquid manufacturers. My best estimate - 10 lines of (small) liquid.

I keep hearing that but why? Are they just going to make it so expensive and/or complicated that you can't make money?

This is a almost daily conversation I have with these "government knows best" people (who vape themselves or know close ones who do)
Me: The FDA is going to to shutdown many small businesses with the new regs
Them: What? No.. they just don't want stuff sold to minors and my vender already does that.
Me: Well I got several e-mails from my favorite vendors that if it goes through unchanged they may not make it.
Them: No, not possible, the government is always right, your vender must be doing something wrong. Why will they have to shutdown?
Me: (got nothing)

(yeah I'm exaggerating...... a little)
So I was wondering if such a site/post exists. I'll keep looking, but I'm just wondering if someone had the info already.

and I'm asking you guys because you are so nice

 

[fraychek]

I will NEVER buy ANYTHING from a big tobacco company. EVER! God only knows what they would put in the stuff.

 

[NicoleNXD]

Wow. So much for not being labeled a hater after very politely voicing the same concerns many other Nicoticket fans have been asking about for a while now.














done

Was thinking the same thing. Things sure have changed around here, some good and some bad. Another reason I just lurk and haven't been around much. Clark has always encouraged people to voice their opinions good or bad. Now we do that and people get in an uproar. Clark knows I loves me some clark, Katy and nt. I wouldn't have stuck around here for going on a year now if i didnt. I have nothing against him or how he runs his business. He does a lot for everyone and we all know that and don't need to be told. Back to the corner I go.

 

[Kent Brooks]

I keep hearing that but why? Are they just going to make it so expensive and/or complicated that you can't make money?

This is a almost daily conversation I have with these "government knows best" people (who vape themselves or know close ones who do)
Me: The FDA is going to to shutdown many small businesses with the new regs
Them: What? No.. they just don't want stuff sold to minors and my vender already does that.
Me: Well I got several e-mails from my favorite vendors that if it goes through unchanged they may not make it.
Them: No, not possible, the government is always right, your vender must be doing something wrong. Why will they have to shutdown?
Me: (got nothing)

(yeah I'm exaggerating...... a little)
So I was wondering if such a site/post exists. I'll keep looking, but I'm just wondering if someone had the info already.

and I'm asking you guys because you are so nice

There's two "pathways" to get any specific product "approved by the FDA"

1) Substantial equivalence: Essentially, we would need to submit that a product we intend to get approved is "equivalent" to a product that existed before February of 2007. Problem - no such product exists.

2) Pre-market Tobacco Application (PMTA) - Estimated cost... 1-1.5million per SKU. Take Custard's Last Stand for example... CLS in 0,6,12,18 - in 15ml, 30ml, 50ml bottles = 12 SKUs. So, the cost to keep a product like CLS alive... somewhere between 12-18million in research, development, testing, etc. THEN - take into consideration that since the inception of the PMTA pathway, approx 20 or so have been submitted and exactly ONE has been approved (a minor change to an existing product). So, net-net - a business like Nicoticket invests millions of dollars to submit an application for which no defined set of application guidelines exists. Even the FDA doesn't know what information they want (or how much). Who wants to invest all that money to submit an application that (in all likelihood) will be denied for "insufficient information?"

 

[Feignix]

Wow. So much for not being labeled a hater after very politely voicing the same concerns many other Nicoticket fans have been asking about for a while now.

done

Not that it was asked for but since we were being "honest", which is what rudedog did, (and I hope is NOT mistaken for Clark's), but it's not so much HOW you said it but the fact that you kept putting it out there, along with some of the things you said. I honestly felt that you we're complaining without a valid reason, but it's not like I felt that way about YOUR opinion alone! I took great pains and restraint to voice MY opinion in my post, as it seemed you did as well, when I could have easily and much shorter said:

You can put lipstick on a pig....but it's still a pig! And while NT's virus goes well mixed with just about anything envy on the other hand doesn't look good on anyone!

However I didn't want to come off as disrespectful and offensive either. I'm sorry if your feeling were hurt but after experiencing the vape I get out of EVERYONE of at least 8 of NT's juices I've tried versus all the "top shelf" and OTHER so-called "premium" liquids out there I've had AND look at the bigger picture I "personally" wouldn't THINK of having an issue with the prices of their juices on the SR's especially!

Not to mention EVERYTHING that comes with the whole NT experience and those of you've who've ordered from them should know what I'm talking about! What doesn't make sense to me is you even made MENTION of all those fine points!

I get that I'm not going to agree with everyone or even the majority of people on any given issue, and I "believe" that you didn't INTEND to be rude or disrespectful, I was just voicing MY opinions as delicately as I could given the circumstances and it even seemed that "RUDE"-dog did to some extent as well, hence the partly why I decided to "like" btw...

Perhaps some have gotten "spoiled" or are expecting way more than should be, idk, but at least be open-minded enough to consider the other side.
I have and I just don't see that it's something be worth "upset" over and brought up more than once....I can see being disappointed, heck I've had plenty of that already in my short time of experiencing the "vaping community". I don't know how many times I REALLY wanted a particular mod or atty or something and it's SOLD OUT, for EXTENDED times, practically impossible to snag or the price is more than what I personally think it's worth....it just seems like your feelings on it are a bit too strong and misguided, and could be considered as rude by SOME, again, IMHO!

I'm done too, I honestly don't think it's really all that crucial either way....vape on!

Maybe it's time for me to take a break from the forum and get some other MUCH needed things accomplished!

 

[mistmonster]

There's two "pathways" to get any specific product "approved by the FDA"

1) Substantial equivalence: Essentially, we would need to submit that a product we intend to get approved is "equivalent" to a product that existed before February of 2007. Problem - no such product exists.

2) Pre-market Tobacco Application (PMTA) - Estimated cost... 1-1.5million per SKU. Take Custard's Last Stand for example... CLS in 0,6,12,18 - in 15ml, 30ml, 50ml bottles = 12 SKUs. So, the cost to keep a product like CLS alive... somewhere between 12-18million in research, development, testing, etc. THEN - take into consideration that since the inception of the PMTA pathway, approx 20 or so have been submitted and exactly ONE has been approved (a minor change to an existing product). So, net-net - a business like Nicoticket invests millions of dollars to submit an application for which no defined set of application guidelines exists. Even the FDA doesn't know what information they want (or how much). Who wants to invest all that money to submit an application that (in all likelihood) will be denied for "insufficient information?"

Thank you for the information. That does sound terrible and primed for the cig-alikes that only sell a few terrible flavors..

 

[Solacier]

There's two "pathways" to get any specific product "approved by the FDA"

1) Substantial equivalence: Essentially, we would need to submit that a product we intend to get approved is "equivalent" to a product that existed before February of 2007. Problem - no such product exists.

2) Pre-market Tobacco Application (PMTA) - Estimated cost... 1-1.5million per SKU. Take Custard's Last Stand for example... CLS in 0,6,12,18 - in 15ml, 30ml, 50ml bottles = 12 SKUs. So, the cost to keep a product like CLS alive... somewhere between 12-18million in research, development, testing, etc. THEN - take into consideration that since the inception of the PMTA pathway, approx 20 or so have been submitted and exactly ONE has been approved (a minor change to an existing product). So, net-net - a business like Nicoticket invests millions of dollars to submit an application for which no defined set of application guidelines exists. Even the FDA doesn't know what information they want (or how much). Who wants to invest all that money to submit an application that (in all likelihood) will be denied for "insufficient information?"

Ugh...What the FDA is doing just makes me sick...I'm not one for shenanigans. It's a total disregard for what actually works to aid smokers in quitting veiled under the cloak of "we're looking out for your health's best interest". I could rant on about this for hours with many expletives (not enough soap in the world to wash my mouth out with) but all I'll say is that I sincerely hope and pray that whatever you've got in the works is successful in this war. It's unfortunate that things have gotten to this point. I'll also say that whatever your next move is, I'm with you guys wholeheartedly.

 

[fraychek]

There's two "pathways" to get any specific product "approved by the FDA"

1) Substantial equivalence: Essentially, we would need to submit that a product we intend to get approved is "equivalent" to a product that existed before February of 2007. Problem - no such product exists.

2) Pre-market Tobacco Application (PMTA) - Estimated cost... 1-1.5million per SKU. Take Custard's Last Stand for example... CLS in 0,6,12,18 - in 15ml, 30ml, 50ml bottles = 12 SKUs. So, the cost to keep a product like CLS alive... somewhere between 12-18million in research, development, testing, etc. THEN - take into consideration that since the inception of the PMTA pathway, approx 20 or so have been submitted and exactly ONE has been approved (a minor change to an existing product). So, net-net - a business like Nicoticket invests millions of dollars to submit an application for which no defined set of application guidelines exists. Even the FDA doesn't know what information they want (or how much). Who wants to invest all that money to submit an application that (in all likelihood) will be denied for "insufficient information?"

Sorry. I can't "like" this post. Well, I like that you said it, but I don't like what you said. I don't like it a lot.

 

[mistmonster]

Sorry. I can't "like" this post. Well, I like that you said it, but I don't like what you said. I don't like it a lot.

I know!! I had a hard time hitting the like on that one but I appreciated the time he took to answer me so I looked at it that way.

 

[Nailz]

I personally think this thread has gone well off track, if I was new here and looking for reviews on the banana vape, would wonder what the hell is going on, this is meant to be about the banana vape and not about pricing, someone already started a thread about pricing on NT liquids to try and to take it out of this thread, so why not take it there and let the rest of us read what this thread is meant to be about, the AWESOME banana pudding (I'm guessing it is awesome, should know tomorrow when mine turns up, but as Clark made it, pretty safe bet to say AWESOME), I think this thread should be put to bed and restarted, so people can read what it is meant to be about

Nicole good to see you

 

[NicoleNXD]

I personally think this thread has gone well off track, if I was new here and looking for reviews on the banana vape, would wonder what the hell is going on, this is meant to be about the banana vape and not about pricing, someone already started a thread about pricing on NT liquids to try and to take it out of this thread, so why not take it there and let the rest of us read what this thread is meant to be about, the AWESOME banana pudding (I'm guessing it is awesome, should know tomorrow when mine turns up, but as Clark made it, pretty safe bet to say AWESOME), I think this thread should be put to bed and restarted, so people can read what it is meant to be about

Nicole good to see you

Good to see you too (((((Nailz)))))

Sorry to derail the thread. Back to banana pudding!

Sorry (((((Clark)))))

 

[catmomma]

I personally think this thread has gone well off track, if I was new here and looking for reviews on the banana vape, would wonder what the hell is going on, this is meant to be about the banana vape and not about pricing, someone already started a thread about pricing on NT liquids to try and to take it out of this thread, so why not take it there and let the rest of us read what this thread is meant to be about, the AWESOME banana pudding (I'm guessing it is awesome, should know tomorrow when mine turns up, but as Clark made it, pretty safe bet to say AWESOME), I think this thread should be put to bed and restarted, so people can read what it is meant to be about

Nicole good to see you

Amen! Honestly, I'm almost afraid to post my thoughts on the Puddin'. It saddens me to think that there is so much hostility in this thread. Clark has always encouraged feedback, and the only thing I've seen people post is their opinion, agree or disagree, but don't flame them for expressing it. Okay, sorry, I will vape some more Puddin' and post again.

 

[CorallineAlgae]

Not that it was asked for but since we were being "honest"...

Well, if we're being "honest" let's also be clear. I never once criticized anybody. Not Clark, not Nicoticket, and not a single forum member (before now). I simply voiced my concern about the rise in prices (as did many other forum members in other threads) as well as the early release of a SR that Clark himself stated multiple times that he would let steep because it wasn't nearly ready. I never questioned his motives or accused him of anything. You, on the other hand, were rude, disrespectful and accusatory to me personally.

While I was asking for the reasoning behind a business charging a high price for an unsteeped eliquid, you were posting personal insults directed at a community member and loyal Nicoticket customer. I had a reasonably justified complaint directed at a business over a rushed-out-of-the-door product sold for a high price. You were tossing out personal insults saying how I "don't realize that e-liquids are a LUXORY item".. and how you're "wondering about how many soda's at over a $1 a pop these people purchase in a week" (zero BTW).. or "how many times did they hit the drive through" Never. (I'm disabled and can't drive and due to Celiac disease I can't really eat fast food anyway).

Your "restraint" didn't seem to slow your insults down as you continued the personal attacks saying how I was "whining" and "complaining". You go on to cast aspersions based on age saying "there's A LOT of that in these more recent generations". I'm 40 and far more considerate in how I treat others than you are at whatever age.

You then try to justify your haughty insults by saying how you've "put MULTIPLE as in 2 or 3 orders in one week and even made a joke about it and I've also plugged the heck out of Nicoticket during the same time frame". Wow. Same here. Maybe I should feel empowered to be disrespectful to people who don't order as often as I do. It seems to work for you.

So you then go on to explain how "Some people are putting their disappointment out there over a juice not being pre-steeped enough when they haven't even TRIED it yet!" True, but it was Clark who said himself "with regard to this release - it's definitely NOT ready to vape in MY humble opinion". I'll take him at his word.

Then your "restrained" post offers up these wise words, "NOBODY'S twisting your arm and forcing you to buy these NON necessity items aka luxury or "premiums"!" I never claimed that. Thanks for the clarification, but you are wrong, at least in a way. Clark said as much himself when he posted "The people who do [buy all of the short runs] will have the opportunity to contribute to the discussion about "which 10 flavors will carry us forward into the next evolution of Nicoticket." The folks who don't, won't." So if we don't buy all of the short runs we won't be involved in the discussion about which flavors will continue to be made. His words. I actually understand his point so I never called him out about it. Those are the rules he set. It makes sense but it's still exclusionary.

You finish your first post saying how you "ramble a bit, but in my HUMBLE opinion at least some of this NEEDED to be said!". Some of it perhaps... but your personal insults and reason-less questioning of my eating, drinking and purchasing habits are meaningless and juvenile.

You do clarify in your next post that "I "believe" that you didn't INTEND to be rude or disrespectful, I was just voicing MY opinions as delicately as I could given the circumstances" Let's be clear. I questioned a business decision made by a company I respect in a dignified manner. Because you disagreed with that you personally insulted me and questioned my character.

One of these things is not like the other.

Edit: I'm also sorry for my part in derailing this thread. I didn't see all of the above posts and this one took some time to write. I know this isn't the place for all of this but I feel like I was respectful in my questions to Clark and was unjustly attacked for asking them. Again, I'm sorry for the trouble it caused.

 

[itsrayray]

So Bulgaria it is eh?