Propylene Glycol origins?

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jpargana

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What is significant harm? That could mean anything...
I think many vapers are addicted to vaping, whether it be the act of vaping, the nicotine or a combination of both. Read through enough posts and you will see why, or not...

Nicotine Propaganda
Some quotes:
"Use of the term 'addictive' is deliberately emotive and used for the purpose of inflaming the debate when applied to a material for which harm is impossible to measure reliably; it is incorrect because modern custom is to use the word 'dependence' and 'dependence forming' for a material causing no reliably measurable harm (e.g. coffee, for which there is some evidence for dependence creation)."
"'Addictive' is used when the custom or consumption is likely to cause reliably-identifiable harm of some kind (e.g. gambling addiction, crack addiction)."


Does that ring a bell? :)
 

jpargana

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I've seen posts where some literally live paycheck to paycheck, but always have vape mail coming in and have far more mods, tanks and gear than I do, and money isn't an issue for me. Sounds like a significant addiction to me...


Well, IF it was, it was a non-vaping related "addiction", and rather a "collectible addiction".

When those people smoked, they never had to buy a dozen pipes to satisfy their "addiction". A simple pack of smokes and a lighter would do it.

Likewise, people do not *need* to spend that kind of money in order to *vape*.

They spend that money because they *collect* stuff.

And if they decide to stop *collecting* stuff in the future, or if money runs low, they can still *vape* for a tiny fraction of that amount.

"Collecting stuff dependency" may, or may not, be overly expensive. Depends on what you're collecting.
"Vaping dependency", on the other hand, is quite affordable. If I smoked, I could afford my current vaping expenses three or four times over. And that's already including some backup hardware.
 

skoony

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It is becoming interesting.
You are refusing to read, time and time again. You are against learning new things. Why you are in discussion? Just to state something, even if it is not based on any facts?
i have read your links.
they have nothing to do with whats happening in our vaporizers.
regards
mike
 

skoony

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In case you did not even read your own link, my comedic friend, the less water the MORE/Thicker Vapor. PG to VG ratio does the exact same thing - Hello:facepalm:
that's my whole point.
its the water that's vaporizing.
its the PG and VG that add opaqueness and hold the
ingredients together.
regards
mike
 

skoony

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What do you mean? How vapor is produced? But it's an elementary physics. There is a simple explanation.
yes its quite simple.
vaporizing water atomizes the PG and or VG into
a fine mist.exactly as in a asthma inhaler using
compressed gas or a simple hand pumped sprayer
using compressed air. the PG and or VG gives it
the opaqueness and holds the dispersed ingredients
together.
it all is really quite simple and elegant.
regards
mike
 

skoony

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What water?
yes water.
VG will not vaporize until its well over 500F.
walk into any restaurant and take a look at their
fryers.do you see any vapor? do you know how hot
they are? 320 to 375F typical. not a hint of vapor.
now drop some fries in there. the vapor you see is water.
regards
mike
 

Boden

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yes water.
VG will not vaporize until its well over 500F.
walk into any restaurant and take a look at their
fryers.do you see any vapor? do you know how hot
they are? 320 to 375F typical. not a hint of vapor.
now drop some fries in there. the vapor you see is water.
regards
mike
You think VG is oil...? o_O
 

skoony

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Mike
I think you need to do a little more research on this subject. If it was water alone that is vaporizing why does the level of tank go down? if PG/VG don't?
because its being atomized into a fine mist.
go to where you keep your cleaning supplies.
find a hand pumped spray bottle.
give it a couple of pumps.what you see is
a fine mist or aerosol if you prefer.
no heat at all involved.the compressed air
is the force that atomizes the liquid into
an aerosol. its not vapor.
the residual water that will be in PG and or VG
vaporizes and atomizes the base mix into a finer aerosol.
the water vapor supplies the force.
the coil supplies the heat to the water transferring heat
into force.(the water vapor)
regards
mike
 

skoony

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Boden

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AXIOM_1

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    I am not trying to be I am a smarter than you type.

    I never once thought you were "trying" to be anything........ However, I want to clear something up with you and others who may read this because I KNOW from past experience on other forums that problems can arise with people because of a defect in myself that others often either perceive as "pesky" or that I have a "better than thou attitude". Nothing could be further from the truth though. About 2 years ago I was diagnosed with adult Asperger's........ I am not handicapped from the disorder intellectually (just in other ways). Actually it is the opposite with me as I was diagnosed as a high functioning Asperger with much higher than normal thought processes in certain areas. They say I have a high intelligence and this may be one of the reasons why people perceive me as being pesky. Most of the time I never even think much about the way I am except for when I am interacting with others on forums such as this one. I hate telling you or anyone about this stuff as I usually keep it very private but in this case I feel I must because I LOVE this forum and vaping in general and I don't want a bunch of people here to get the WRONG perception of me. So please, if you see me jumping in on discussions and debating just know that I am slightly different from most people but I in NO WAY am desiring to be pesky, nor do I think I am better than anyone else just because I may view things in life through the eyes of a person with Asperger's. Actually, most of the time, I feel inferior to most people as strange as that may sound.


    I am sorry you have your addiction. Smokes made me feel better. It took the edge off life when it became stressful. I can't say I was addicted but maybe I was. I have 5 clients that are psychologists and a daughter that has expressed interest in it. She will be sitting down with 2 of them and seeing if it for her. We have discussed addiction before. Around 3 years ago when one came into my office and saw my vaporizer on my desk and asked questions right after he said I can't bill him for the time:)

    Thank you for the kind words :) Yes, I have suffered with addiction all of my life and with many varied substances. I also suffered with having Asperger's but did not even know I had it.

    Yes we do agree on things yet disagree on others.


    Of course we do. Nothing wrong with that. Most folks disagree on certain things. If everyone agreed on everything then this would be a rather "strange" world.

    I wasn't copping an attitude. I was trying to show that when humans do things for enjoyment it doesn't necessarily mean they are addicted.

    Of course that is one of the ideologies that we disagree on. Plus, I was not saying that you were copping an attitude! My statement was a generalization and I was talking about ANYONE who thinks that specific way.


    I am a big guy and in my college years could put away a lot of beer.

    Ditto.......... I am also a rather big guy and I also used to put away a lot of beer, which is one of the reasons I ended up in hospitals, jails, and treatment centers. I Da*n near drank myself too death. If I still allowed myself to drink then I would challenge you to a drinking contest ;)

    We all have different physiologies. What is an addiction to one doesn't mean it is to another.

    I do not agree with this but then again I do not totally disagree with it either.


    After having an alcoholic in law pass away it is good that you conquered your addiction. I have a client that has a drug addiction which is ruining their life. The cries for help are tough to bear. I commend you for conquering yours.

    Thanks for the kind words. But truly, you do not have to commend me because I got so bad with my drinking that I had either one of two choices. Either STOP the self destructive drinking and killing my body or die. Simple as that. I chose to live.
     
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    skoony

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    And your point is?
    Bases
    Flavours and nicotine are dissolved in hygroscopic (absorbs water from the air) components, which turn the water in the solution into a smoke-like vapour when heated. Commonly used hygroscopic components include propylene glycol, vegetable glycerine, andpolyethylene glycol 400 (often sold under the abbreviations PG, VG, and PEG 400, respectively).
    E-Liquid Facts - VapeHit
    regards
    mike
    ps. pg400 i believe is no longer used due to issues.
     
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    Boden

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    Bases
    Flavours and nicotine are dissolved in hygroscopic (absorbs water from the air) components, which turn the water in the solution into a smoke-like vapour when heated.
    E-Liquid Facts - VapeHit
    regards
    mike

    That is a very simplified version of what is happening. A bit too simplified.

    The solution as a whole has different properties than any one part. The trace amounts of H2O do lower the boiling point of the PG/VG but not much.

    The boiling point of PG is 370.8*F. Let's say there is 2% atmosphereic water in solution, that would lower the boiling point of the solution to 356*F.

    Now let's add some VG. Glycerol has a boiling point of 554*F. So we add 10% VG to the solution that raises the boiling temp of the solution up from 356*F to ~400*F.



    http://www.lyondellbasell.com/techlit/techlit/2519.pdf
     

    skoony

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    That is a very simplified version of what is happening. A bit too simplified.

    The solution as a whole has different properties than any one part. The trace amounts of H2O do lower the boiling point of the PG/VG but not much.

    The boiling point of PG is 370.8*F. Let's say there is 2% atmosphereic water in solution, that would lower the boiling point of the solution to 356*F.

    Now let's add some VG. Glycerol has a boiling point of 554*F. So we add 10% VG to the solution that raises the boiling temp of the solution up from 356*F to ~400*F.



    http://www.lyondellbasell.com/techlit/techlit/2519.pdf
    your over complicating the process.
    the VG and or PG never gets that hot.
    Bases
    Flavours and nicotine are dissolved in hygroscopic (absorbs water from the air) components, which turn the water in the solution into a smoke-like vapour when heated. Commonly used hygroscopic components include propylene glycol, vegetable glycerine, andpolyethylene glycol 400 (often sold under the abbreviations PG, VG, and PEG 400, respectively).
    E-Liquid Facts - VapeHit
    regards
    mike
     
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