The safety of inhaling propylene glycol

[jimrug1]

Until a full study is done, on EVERY component of a few months of vaping and it's effect on human beings, the answer remains: WE DON"T KNOW For sure.

This is one of the more accurate statements I have read in this thread. I have been vaping for over 8 mo. and I still have concerns. While not highly toxic, propylene glycol additives in pet food have been "attributed" (not proven) to have affected normal kidney, liver, and spleen function in animals. It is also known to cause respiratory issues in animals and humans that are especially sensitive to the substance. No one "yet" can say what vaping does to our bodies long term. Is it healthier than smoking cigarettes? I would say yes!! Is it really a long term healthy lifestyle? I think the jury is still out on that one. Governmental studies? Didn't their complacency help get us all get hooked on cigs in the first place? Remember the ads? I will wait for more independent studies.

 

[DC2]

While not highly toxic, propylene glycol additives in pet food have been "attributed" (not proven) to have affected normal kidney, liver, and spleen function in animals.

From everything I've ever seen, this is only in relation to massive doses.
Do you have anything that states otherwise?

 

[Ryedan]

The EPA stated that propylene glycol is of "low toxicity," meaning that acute toxicity symptoms in rats occur when they orally ingest more than 3,600 to 20,000 mg per pound of body weight(!). (In rabbits, the lower limit is 10,000mg per pound of body weight).

Oral ingestion is not the same as inhaling. For the record, I agree that PG is probably safe to vape. I think it is the safest part of juice and the one I am most comfortable with. But IMHO, let's keep the discussion legitimate.

 

[Ryedan]

Under the heading "General Toxicity Observations," the EPA states that "Upon reviewing the available toxicity information, the Agency has concluded that there are no endpoints of concern for oral, dermal, or inhalation exposure"

Under the heading "FQPA Safety Factor," which adjusts toxicity estimates by a "10-fold safety factor (10X), to protect for special sensitivity in infants and children" when there is incomplete data: "The FQPA Safety Factor has been removed (i.e., reduced to IX) for propylene glycol... because there is no pre- or post-natal evidence for increased susceptibility following exposure. Further, the Agency has concluded that there are no endpoints of concern for oral, dermal, or inhalation exposure to propylene glycol... based on the low toxicity observed in studies conducted near or above testing limit doses"

The EPA's 2006 review of propylene glycol states 5 different times that "there are no endpoints for concern for oral, dermal, or inhalation exposure to propylene glycol."

Now, that's what I'm talking about Thanks Thucydides!

 

[Ryedan]

Anyone who argues against the safety of propylene glycol based on its use in antifreeze is either ignorant or arguing in bad faith.

Yup, a totally inappropriate argument!

 

[Racehorse]

From everything I've ever seen, this is only in relation to massive doses.

DC2, that is my understanding as well.

My point was that you cannot simply isolate *one* ingredient of vaping, determine it's safety, then call it a day, since there are other components to eliquid, as well as substances in the hardware itself. To do so is "bad science."


As for the difference between ethylene glycol antifreeze and propylene glycol PG, I don't even know why that is on the table for discussion on a vaping forum, since only people who know nothing about vaping, or are terribly misinformed about their chemistry, would even make that mistake or compare the two.

 

[Racehorse]

This is one of the more accurate statements I have read in this thread. I have been vaping for over 8 mo. and I still have concerns. While not highly toxic, propylene glycol additives in pet food have been "attributed" (not proven) to have affected normal kidney, liver, and spleen function in animals. It is also known to cause respiratory issues in animals and humans that are especially sensitive to the substance. No one "yet" can say what vaping does to our bodies long term. Is it healthier than smoking cigarettes? I would say yes!! Is it really a long term healthy lifestyle? I think the jury is still out on that one. Governmental studies? Didn't their complacency help get us all get hooked on cigs in the first place? Remember the ads? I will wait for more independent studies.

PG has been administered in IVs and caused coma and death in "certain individuals". There are cases in the literature. However, we are not injecting it. Some people will rub a PG containing lotion on their skin and get hives or a rash.

Food flavoring were made for food injested orally. We are vaping it. Not the same thing.

Just using the MSDS sheets is not the full story, since much of what is in them do not apply wholly to the way certain substances are used by vaporers. We are not injesting, or rather, inhaling, the amounts that caused renal failure in animals. But of course, they were EATING it, not vaping it.

Again: We Just Don't Know.

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that vaping is healthier than smoking analogs. Most of us can provide anecdotal evidence of that. That is about as far as I'm willing to go with it. All we really HAVE is anecdotal evidence since no independent long-term studies have been done on vaping. This is why vaping is considered harm reduction. Nobody can come out and say we know it's 100% safe.

However, all of living requires some risk, and risk management. We choose what areas to practice it, that's all.

Some people use a PV for a smoking cessation device and some use it long-term as an alternative to analogs. All of this has to be studied as well, because time-frames are important in terms of cumulative effects.

As for the FDA fears, I doubt they can substantiate vaping being bad, lacking studies. However, I remember watching months of GMO food debates on CSPAN when it first came out, and the research against it seemed very strong to me.......and yet we have plenty of GMO food on the shelves. This leads me to understand that it's all *political*, and sometimes it doesn't matter whether something is truly safe or unsafe....it is all about $$ and pressure.

 

[zapped]

Good job Op! I agree with DC2 we need more posts like this by new members instead of what we've been getting lately. Ive honestly wondered if trolls are wandering in the backdoor somehow, posting under multiple identities.

I still dont think Im going to vape much PG, for me its a personal preference.Its just too harsh to me compared to VG.

 

[beast1911]

Was it a 100% pg liquid that was injected and caused a coma, or was there other substances in it as well? What was the persons medical situation as well that good have greatly contributed to said reaction? Same for the lotion/ointment applied that caused a rash.

Just like you mentioned that isolating one ingredient and saying its safe is not logical for a completely sound argument neither is saying that one ingredient was the cause of those issues.

I agree with everyone on all points, I also think that if we dissected every substance down to trace amounts with what we ingest, wear and use. At this point we wouldn't have anything left that isn't harmful or at least agitating to someone.

 

[Thucydides]

Great write up on the safety of inhaling PG.

Thanks for the kind words.

Now, how many of us are vaping pure PG?

Without flavorings or anything?

Scientifically, this really isn't an argument that would hold water, since PG is not being vaped by itself, but in mixture with other substances.


Then, you would also need to add in stuff that is not in the liquid, i.e. silica wicks, batting in cartos, etc.

Until a full study is done, on EVERY component of a few months of vaping and it's effect on human beings, the answer remains: WE DON"T KNOW For sure.

And yes, allergies and sensitivities to PG range from mildly annoying to needing to seek medical attention. Of course, that is true for some foods, some flavorings, medications, etc for some people. It exists, nevertheless.

Fair enough. This is limited to the scope of propylene glycol, as indicated by the title. My point is to give lie to the oft-stated idea that there's no safety information for the primary ingredients of vaping. For most vapers, propylene glycol is the primary ingredient.

That said, I'm neither a doctor nor a scientist. Just someone who can read an EPA report.

My guess is that there are many more people who have vaped massive amounts of juice than there are test subjects for any major medical study for (say) a new vaccine that gets released to the general population. (Please note: I am not a vaccine skeptic.)

Remember that for centuries, coffee and tea were consumed by the western world with no published safety of efficacy data, with studies on its long term impacts only arriving on the scene a few decades ago. Once something becomes fairly widely used with nothing noted beyond a small percentage of normal allergic reactions (similar to what I experience with animal dander), one can begin to take a lot more for granted.

 

[EddardinWinter]

PG is used as a solvent for pharmaceuticals that are water insoluble. This has been studied extensively. Many asthma treatments have been given in a solution of PG. Technically, it is true that the combination in juices for vaping are a unique combination of ingredients. Therefore you cannot declare that mixture safe.

It is difficult to make a rational argument that the PG itself is toxic or harmful (except in the cases of allergies) as an inhaled substance, since there is a great deal of research that asserts it as safe when used in the tested quantities, and no studies that I have read that demonstrate a hazard. This appeared to be the assertion of OP on this thread. I agree with his premise that there is considerable evidence that PG is safe for human use.

I do agree that you cannot accurately say that all PG solutions are safe, I just did not read that as the point of the OP.

 

[dam718]

As I have been collecting materials and studying up on DIY juices, this article was very beneficial to me, and I enjoyed the read for sure.

The bases I purchased were 99.7% USP Kosher Food grade VG, and 99.9% USP Food grade PG. So I felt pretty good about those... The 100mg/mL nicotine is also in an organic VG base. (I mix at 60/40 for big vapor clouds )

The flavorings on the other hand, those are the ones with questionable ingredients.

Not necessarily questionable as in unsafe, but not researched to this extent on the effects of inhalation. While most of the flavorings I purchased have bases of PG or VG, there are other natural extracts (vanilla and mint come to mind), coloring agents, "artificial flavoring" , corn syrup, sugars, etc... The concentrations of these individual components are likely less than 1% of our total juice, or certainly in the single digits...

But those are the things I am curious about... Is the inhalation of vaporized food dye safe? Vaporized sugars and corn syrups? I know if I get sweetened water on my oven burner it stinks horribly bad.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not WORRIED, or I wouldn't be vaping at all... I'd love to see more extensive studies like this done on each of the individual components that could be used in the manufacture of our juices... What are the by products of vaporizing food dye? How does it effect lab animals, and in what concentrations does it have an effect, if any, when breathing it in...

I don't want to make waves, I just want more concrete evidence for the organizations that support vapingto present to state and federal regulators who would attempt to declare vaping an unsafe practice.

I think that's total BS, but I don't have much of a leg to stand on. I'm also an engineer, not a chemist or microbiologist

 

[jpargana]

Remember that for centuries, coffee and tea were consumed by the western world with no published safety of efficacy data, with studies on its long term impacts only arriving on the scene a few decades ago.

Well, one thing just sprung in my mind: we did not have to wait for the safety reports on tobacco to be addicted to it... no-one ever tried to ban the sell of tobbaco because 'we have no studies'... hell, no-one tried to ban tobbaco even after those first studies started to show how bad tobacco was... oh!, the irony...

 

[jimrug1]

PG has been administered in IVs and caused coma and death in "certain individuals". There are cases in the literature. However, we are not injecting it. Some people will rub a PG containing lotion on their skin and get hives or a rash.

Food flavoring were made for food injested orally. We are vaping it. Not the same thing.

Just using the MSDS sheets is not the full story, since much of what is in them do not apply wholly to the way certain substances are used by vaporers. We are not injesting, or rather, inhaling, the amounts that caused renal failure in animals. But of course, they were EATING it, not vaping it.

Again: We Just Don't Know.

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that vaping is healthier than smoking analogs. Most of us can provide anecdotal evidence of that. That is about as far as I'm willing to go with it.

My sentiments exactly!!

 

[EddardinWinter]

Okay, we don't know and we cannot prove it is safe. However, here are four articles I found in a relatively short time about studies on the effects of PG vapors.

The safety of propylene glycol (PG) when inhaled through an electronic cigarette. Studies on the effect of the inhalation of propylene glycol through a personal vaporizer.
http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jam.2007.0626
http://www.esta.org/tsp/working_groups/FS/docs/cohen.pdf
Propylene Glycol

I glanced through the studies and the work is sound. The first one is a large sample size where extremely high levels of PG were used for exposure (50-700 times normal saturation levels). While this does not prove the safety of PG, it does lend significant evidence to the safety of PG when inhaled as vapor.

I ask this question, what substance can anyone prove the safety of? There is no significant evidence to support that PG is harmful (other than allergic reaction) when used as vapor in the quantities expected from use of e-cigarettes.

 

[Caridwen]

There's PG & VG in cigarettes

http://www.rjrt.com/tobaccoingredients.aspx

Not saying it means it's healthy obviously. Just that everyone's been inhaling that along with a bunch of toxic substances before they started vaping.

 

[filter]

ive had a bottle of PG for several years. i bought it approximately 6 years ago, which is about 5 years before i knew what an electronic cigarette was. i bought it as an anti-microbial additive to the distilled water i put into my cigar humidor to keep my cigars at optimal relative humidity (~70%). the cigar community has used PG for this very purpose for decades. obviously this has little to do with vaporizing it and inhaling the vapor, however, i did knowingly smoke cigars that had been stewing in PG for months prior to being lit.

as others have stated, it is just one ingredient, however, i think the OP's posting is valid and important. i wish that eliquid manufacturers would stop adding dyes/food coloring to their product. they serve no purpose and may not be safe.

 

[Racehorse]

My feeling, in general, lacking any formal long-term independent studies (which would also have to consider cumulative effects):

Vape what you personally feel comfortable vaping. This allows a great deal of personal freedom, and with DIY, what you put in a carto is now entirely within your own personal discretion.

The FDA, EPA, ANTZ, and we as vaporers, are merely hypothesizing (which makes for good conversation) when it comes to knowing for sure what is safe, lacking any formal long-term INDEPENDENT studies.


Vape what keeps you off the analogs, has the least side-effects for your person, what you feel has the least propensity for harm, and of course, what you enjoy.

 

[CarbonThief]

My feeling, in general, lacking any formal long-term independent studies (which would also have to consider cumulative effects):

Vape what you personally feel comfortable vaping. This allows a great deal of personal freedom, and with DIY, what you put in a carto is now entirely within your own personal discretion.

The FDA, EPA, ANTZ, and we as vaporers, are merely hypothesizing (which makes for good conversation) when it comes to knowing for sure what is safe, lacking any formal long-term INDEPENDENT studies.


Vape what keeps you off the analogs, has the least side-effects for your person, what you feel has the least propensity for harm, and of course, what you enjoy.

Well said, and very true. Are you a scientist or researcher yourself? Just wondering you've said so,e spot on comments here.

 

[tazuo]

The question is not if propylene glycol is toxic...
But if the combo glycole nicotine could be toxic...
I mean a combo between two substance and trought vapor generate a different thing...
I felt the hit to much stronger with glicol instead of vegental glicerin with the same amount of nicotine x ml...
And i got terrible headaches with propylene glicol and nausea and anxiety and insomnia...
With glicerin it seems everythink fine...
I didn't tried yet but maybe if i smoke 100% PG without nicotine i don't get any strange side effect...
Seems PG worked to me boost the nicotine effect or changing in a bad way...
VG seems to be thousand time safer in my opinion...
3% of people are seriously allergic to PG and about 15-20% get some side effect so while vaping...
For sure PG provide a better vaping experience but if you have any side effect i suggest to try 100% vg