Propylene Glycol origins?
- Thread starter Mrez
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Now that is a clinical definition of insanity.
its also the reason some people blow better clouds.
it would take over 500F to get VG to vaporize.
its the water that makes it work.it doesn't take very much.
its in all juice naturally by absorption.
regards
mike
When you can point to significant numbers of these vapers (not isolated instances) that are actually malnourished because they choose vape mail over food to the detriment of their health, or they are living in cardboard boxes because they were evicted, then you can start to talk about the idea of "significant harm". The fact that some folks don't budget correctly according to your personal standards is not even close to "significant harm". And you know that.
There is a standard definition of addiction, the idea of "significant harm" is not difficult to grasp, and there is no indication whatsoever that vaping meets that definition. It really is that simple. And again, you know that.
I was unaware alcoholics and addicts of other substances had to lose everything, be malnourished and live on the streets for there to be a problem. Interesting...
If one can't survive a trip to the cereal Island at the Walmart without stopping to take a vape, they are addicted...
Technicalities aside, my perception is that I swapped one addiction for a more enjoyable and less damaging addiction.
I thought the whole point of PG is that it not only lowers the freezing point of water, but also the boiling point. I'm not even sure how 100% VG is vaped...
Sorry, Steve, now you are just getting silly and I'm out of the debate with you over the definition of significant harm. Those reading this thread can come to their own conclusions as to what significant harm is.
Guess I am confused. Would vaporization at 250F cause more clouds than vaporization at 500F? From what I know vaporization is vaporization regardless of temperature that causes it. Each substance may cause different vapor.
My guess would be better wicking would help with the cloudz.
Buy a HH357. drop a few drops of your water diluted vg.. then drop a few drops of wally worlds finest from the bottle. Test the two. It is all about the wicking.
Tisk tisk tisk...... I thought you were through with this conversation? Oh well, I am rather glad you are back, it gives me more targets to hit
................ I am busy working outside but I came in to rest and read this first post as I know there are others to reply to as well. I will get to them when I can later on ................ Of course there are modern dangers all around us and bombarding us at all times but you are missing the entire point............ Lots of those things/activities are not things that we WILLINGLY participate in or have much control over for that matter. Most folks don't even know of the poisons and dangers that are in their water and food. But, if you were WILLINGLY to sit down and radiate yourself with radio frequencies(RF) or indulge in a nice vile of poison and you did it over and over again, then you have an addictive personality. Simple as that.No, I am NOT redefining addiction. I am not bragging but I am somewhat of an expert on addiction after spending many months in a couple of different treatment centers for addiction. I got schooled DAILY on addiction by some of the best (Psychiatrists). It does not matter what the substance or activity is, addiction is addiction. Besides that if you read the wiki and without defense and bias, you can PLAINLY see that it says what I am saying. I am not redefining anything. If you do something over and over again (because you like it or for the reward) and that something is harmful then you have an addictive personality. You can try to twist and look at it any way you want to in defense of whatever addictions you may have but that is just plain DENIAL as they call it in treatment centers.
A Psychiatrist would have fun with you. Kick your denial in the .... will you?
I will be happy to debate the statement you made to any clinician...Tisk tisk tisk...... I thought you were through with this conversation? Oh well, I am rather glad you are back, it gives me more targets to hit
No, I am NOT redefining addiction. I am not bragging but I am somewhat of an expert on addiction after spending many months in a couple of different treatment centers for addiction. I got schooled DAILY on addiction by some of the best (Psychiatrists). It does not matter what the substance or activity is, addiction is addiction. Besides that if you read the wiki and without defense and bias, you can PLAINLY see that it says what I am saying. I am not redefining anything. If you do something over and over again (because you like it or for the reward) and that something is harmful then you have an addictive personality. You can try to twist and look at it any way you want to in defense of whatever addictions you may have but that is just plain DENIAL as they call it in treatment centers.
A Psychiatrist would have fun with you. Kick your denial in the .... will you?
"it still is indicative of an addictive personality because there is the POSSIBILITY of it being dangerous"
That is patently false, by any stretch of the definition. Nice try back pedaling. Over and out. Just wanted to call you out on that statement.
I think you are conflating, "addiction," with, "abuse." Addiction has nothing to do with harm, only whether or not withdrawing the substance/activity causes withdrawal symptoms (or psychological distress in the case of psychological addiction). Abuse is where the harm comes in. I am addicted to caffeine but this addiction causes no harm. Thus, I am not abusing caffeine. My BIL drinks alcohol abusively but is not addicted to it. He can go for weeks without having a drink, but when he does, he drinks to excess and ends up in trouble. He abuses alcohol without being addicted to it. A friend of mine is addicted to ....... and it is causing him harm -he is both addicted to and abusing ........ Abuse can apply to things that have no addictive potential as well.
So yes, some people may be addicted to vaping but not abusing it because it is doing no harm. Dependence on something means exactly that you are addicted to it -the terms are virtually interchangeable. If I am addicted to alcohol then I have an alcohol dependence. Habit is a term that would be better applied to behaviors -"he has a habit of biting his nails." Saying that someone has a "....... habit," is really meaningless -it's just a way that people try to minimize addiction and abuse.
Every serious and detailed definition of addiction, by a credible source, discusses harm, and significant harm. Here is just one example:
Definition of Addiction
im addicted to living.
living is proven to kill you.
solution? stop living!
i think we should treat anything we do as harmful - just by the act of living it is going to kill us.
we could live in a glass bubble, sterilized, filtered air etc and will still eventual die from something.
the conversation should be about harm reduction.
i was a smoker and now im not, im now a vaporer.
vaporizing basic ingredients to be inhaled is going to be in magnitude better than inhaling "anything" that is burning and/or smoldering not just tobacco.
ps. imho, ymmv yada yada
living is proven to kill you.
solution? stop living!
i think we should treat anything we do as harmful - just by the act of living it is going to kill us.
we could live in a glass bubble, sterilized, filtered air etc and will still eventual die from something.
the conversation should be about harm reduction.
i was a smoker and now im not, im now a vaporer.
vaporizing basic ingredients to be inhaled is going to be in magnitude better than inhaling "anything" that is burning and/or smoldering not just tobacco.
ps. imho, ymmv yada yada
That is a medical definition of addiction which serves the very specific purpose of determining when an addiction needs medical treatment. It discusses the facets of psychological addiction. In the medical community, substances have dependence potential which is the technically correct way to say that they cannot function without the presence of the substance. So yes, doctors make distinctions between "addiction," and "dependence."
We are not doctors here. When we say "addicted," take that to mean "dependent on," if you must be medically precise. Why do we have to get so bogged down in semantics? You know what is meant.
So what?
Not at all.
Let me again to try to make you to do some reading:
Boiling point - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Read about "boiling point diagram"
Why you insist on very wrong explanations of yours?
This probably isn't the thread for this question, but the matter is being discussed here so . . .
What are we actually doing when we vape? My thoughts were that we are creating an aerosol with water as the gaseous medium and the glycols and flavors were the droplets in the aerosols. Is that not what is occurring?
What are we actually doing when we vape? My thoughts were that we are creating an aerosol with water as the gaseous medium and the glycols and flavors were the droplets in the aerosols. Is that not what is occurring?
- Status
