Protank II rebuild, harder than it looks?

[MacTechVpr]

Awesome. Thanks


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Some excerpts...

Congratulations, you're about to embark on a very pleasurable odyssey. Once you do, the adventure continues at….

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

Most economical and ironically effective means is to spool wire directly to a simple screwdriver for incredible results out of the gate. This procedure just works. Invest in at least a small 25 ft. spool of quality (published spec) Kanthal, 30 AWG from TEMCO for the Protank/Mini. I use a forceps to provide tension in this post but you can do the same thing feeding from a spool which I do here…



You literally will have a usable coil to drop into a Kanger head in minutes. That ahaa moment will definitely hit ya.

Good luck!

 

[RubyRoo]

I was just joking around with hurricanegirl100, who's post I was replying to - I guess I failed miserably at it - Sorry if I offended you

No Worries! You didn't offend me at all! Just a reminder that chicks like me like rebuilding stuff too. It's aaaaaaallllll good.

 

[RubyRoo]

Ruby you ladies have a huge advantage over us ham-handed guys. It's the same attribute, fine finger motor control, that makes women so adept at creating in minute beautiful precision among other things including marksmanship!

You show 'em how it's done girl.

Later. And good luck!

Happy Holidays.

Thanks! You should see me at the range . . . badass is all I have to say . . .

 

[PoeDung]

Not sure how well you can see this, but how does it look? None of the sides are touching.

 

[pokehero]

Not sure how well you can see this, but how does it look? None of the sides are touching.

Not all of the coils are touching either, so you might have issues with hot spots.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Not sure how well you can see this, but how does it look? None of the sides are touching.

This is more like what you need…



But it will take you a few days to develop the hand/eye coordination (a few builds). To learn how to tension wind, appropriately locate the head and symmetrically terminate the legs to stop hot spots, period. You'll need to study both those threads and ignore the off-topic discussion.

You want a true "contact coil". And you'll find out what that is in physics terms in the latter thread. That will give you the substantially under 1 sec fire time and temperature output (vapor/flavor) you're looking for.

Good luck! Happy Holidays.

 

[Nightcall]

With my 8 wrap coil and cotton I just learned that:

V-Fate Vivi Nova with rebuilt heads >>>>>>> Protanks.

Never, ever, ever, floods, leaks or gurgles.

 

[PoeDung]

I almost I had it. Had a 1.0 Ohm with silica wick and put the protank II on and went down to 0.8.

 

[PoeDung]

OMG FINALLY!!! After using almost all my first order of silica I finally made a 2.0ohm coil replacement!! Tomorrow I'll be checking local stores for organic cotton!!!

 

[Mark Anthony]

First off, I think 32g would be easier, I use 5 wraps on the top, 4 underneath with 32g and get 2.2 ohms. It is harder than it looks because you don't have much space. I use Ekowool and stick a sewing needle through the center of the Ekowool, wrap my coils and leave the needle in until I'm finished. I set the coil back into the channel of the head pull 1 wire tight and bend it over the bottom side. I stick the other 1 through the insulator and insert that with my thumb over the coil, making sure it stays flat in the channel. Then I bend the other wire over the opposite side of the channel (the other side opposite of the first wire) and insert the positive pin. Then I inspect it to make sure none of the coils are touching the metal body, that will cause a short. Only after I'm happy with it do I finally remove the pin.

The pin provides 2 things:
1. It provides stability when wrapping
2. It makes sure your coil sits not too deep and not to high in the head.

If the coil sits too high it can short against the chimney. Too low it can taste burnt, possibly burning the rubber insulator.
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Steve

I agree with this. When I first started to rebuild I had similar issues.

 

[MacTechVpr]

First off, I think 32g would be easier, I use 5 wraps on the top, 4 underneath with 32g and get 2.2 ohms. It is harder than it looks because you don't have much space. I use Ekowool and stick a sewing needle through the center of the Ekowool, wrap my coils and leave the needle in until I'm finished. I set the coil back into the channel of the head pull 1 wire tight and bend it over the bottom side. I stick the other 1 through the insulator and insert that with my thumb over the coil, making sure it stays flat in the channel. Then I bend the other wire over the opposite side of the channel (the other side opposite of the first wire) and insert the positive pin. Then I inspect it to make sure none of the coils are touching the metal body, that will cause a short. Only after I'm happy with it do I finally remove the pin.

The pin provides 2 things:
1. It provides stability when wrapping
2. It makes sure your coil sits not too deep and not to high in the head.

If the coil sits too high it can short against the chimney. Too low it can taste burnt, possibly burning the rubber insulator.
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Steve

You have some of the basic principles dead on Wings. Took me weeks to sort through the hand-winding insistence. But basic electrical mechanical principles apply. For example, yes, it's paramount you isolate both leads. And people like Rip Trippers make a big deal about it, but don't explain it. So we get it wrong. I did. So the constant problem you'll experience if you keep doing this is recurrent hotspots. You will understand – the final loops of the end turns will go hot if they're not in direct contact on exit, high end turns, or deformed end turns when you over tighten. The latter happens when you tighten the end turn on something other than the diameter on which it was wound. Skewing of the coil also happens then. That means you must have uniform symmetry of the helix. You need to keep the coil on what you wound it with. That limits the diameter of the mandrel that you use for the KPT and clearo's to achieve optimal performance. So…the exiting legs must exit at termination with the closest possible contact. And you're absolutely right, termination of those leads must be opposed at the grommet and with a little bit of tension to keep those end turns taught. Otherwise, the wind decays with use, or initially, and you may end up with a working coil but not at maximum efficiency. Won't last as long either…or have the flavor…or the power output…it certainly won't be a contact coil producing "the effect". If you want to know about the latter, the physics you'll need to visit the two threads I cited above. You have the premises of a fine build. That's why simply using a needle to locate the coil is not ideal; you can easily deform the coil localizing it. Nor can larger coil diameters be dropped in the slot for the same reason/s. All these techniques are covered in two places with the links I previously posted. One the essentials and the latter on microcoils specifically. I now have some tanks on moderate juices with the right wick, manually threaded in place running a week to 10 days. That's the kind of performance newcomers would love to be able to achieve in a few days. I know, I was one of them.

Get this approach down wings and you will up your game appreciably. Then please help route others to Metalhed's outline. The best I have found and why I dropped in there to provide explanation and context. It will save newb's….like this one right here who almost failed...a ton of time and bring their lives back to sanity.

Good luck! Happy Holidays.

 

[FearTX]

I rebuilt a few and tried different wick media. It was fun but I have found the best use of my money is to buy the things in packs of 5, pull the flavor wicks and dry burn then rinse, flavor wick with cotton. I use them for 3 or 4 tanks, pull cotton wash and dry burn. I do this till it gives up and throw them away. I mainly use my protanks for work.

I think getting a collection of RBAs and RDAs killed my urge to rebuild the Kanger heads

If I do go back to rebuilding the Kanger heads it will be for the vertical micro coil with cotton packing in the head that thing vapes like a monster for a protank head.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I agree with this. When I first started to rebuild I had similar issues.

Round wire 32 AWG is great for simple hand winding. Let me ask you a question — when have you ever seen a piece of manufactured electronics with a hand wind coil? Then why have we been taught to do that?

Little kids making costume jewelry in art classes are making better coils electrically than we are on this forum.

There's a simple technique for tension which I mention above with pic that produces the right kind of coil for vaporization, a torsion spring. It likes to stay in the shape it was made. You need a little bit thicker gauge, at least 30/31 for durability. Then you can reuse this coil over-and-over if you find the wick that works for the atomizer (fits in the coil) and can be threaded. These techniques can be easily learned and done.



Factory coils **** because they're hand wound, don't fit, don't hold up, fail often in hours and for many reasons. People who've never tried anything else rave in testimonials on this forum about how great this-or-that "new" prepackaged coil is in flavor, vapor, etc. when they simply don't know what is possible to do. In fairness because they've never experienced better. And the rest of us buy 'em because that's all they give us. When we rebuild, why should we duplicate what we know doesn't work? What's with that?

Most of us sit back and watch this circus with our arms crossed, puzzled head shakin', thinkin' why don't they ask how to do it right? The most common answer I see is…yeah, i'll try that.

If my kid can do it I'm sure we all can. I didn't. I had to pee on the electric fence myself for a while. I kept on watching videos and reading threads of people hand-winding thinking well they must know what they're doing. But you and I both know, all of us, know what actually works. We've been using electronics all our lives. And not a single item, from the cheap Japanese pocket radio in the 60's to an mpg player today contains a single hand-over-hand wound coil.

Come on folks. Lend a hand.

Good luck! Happy Holidays.



There are three kinds of men: the one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. —Will Rogers

 

[MacTechVpr]

I rebuilt a few and tried different wick media. It was fun but I have found the best use of my money is to buy the things in packs of 5, pull the flavor wicks and dry burn then rinse, flavor wick with cotton. I use them for 3 or 4 tanks, pull cotton wash and dry burn. I do this till it gives up and throw them away. I mainly use my protanks for work.

I think getting a collection of RBAs and RDAs killed my urge to rebuild the Kanger heads

If I do go back to rebuilding the Kanger heads it will be for the vertical micro coil with cotton packing in the head that thing vapes like a monster for a protank head.

Yep, it's a heck of a lot easier to build that micro, pop it in a dripper and get the 12 ga. bang first shot. True that. I have a love-hate relationship with the Protank. It has a unique draw and taste when you get it right. And like you said it's a great traveller. Gotta give it that. It's not a leaker. But it needs a really tight electrically, mechanically sound build for it to work right. I'm really flavor sensitive. I prefer cotton. But I've gotta swap it out within a day because I strongly taste the tiniest dry scorch for example. And because since I learned to wind a proper coil in a minute or less…I'm spoiled.

Good luck! Fear not. Happy Holidays.

 

[mgalyan]

The tweezer squeeze and torch method will keep your coils tight. Torch the crap out of it. Won't hurt anything.

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[MacTechVpr]

The tweezer squeeze and torch method will keep your coils tight. Torch the crap out of it. Won't hurt anything.

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Two ways to build shape into metal: heat and torsion (pressure). One builds in rigidity externally; it's gonna cost you gear, extra time and bucks to torch. The other elasticity, the coil wants to stay a "contact coil" like the spring on a screen door. The latter doesn't require bucks. You need a known diameter so you can duplicate your work and reference it to a resistance value, like a common 1/16" screwdriver, the coil you bought with wire (as a tool) and hand power. No squishy, crunchy required. Too much drama and theater.

Which is easier? Less complicated? More likely to perform over time?

Just sayin'.

Good luck! Happy Holidays.



Footnote: Over-torching will damage the wire before you even build the coil shortening it's life and performance.

 

[Emtpeters]

The hardest thing for me to learn was to trim and tuck the wires under the insulator

 

[PoeDung]

The hardest thing for me to learn was to trim and tuck the wires under the insulator

This was the easy part for me. I just wind it around in a circle until it comes out.

 

[MacTechVpr]

The hardest thing for me to learn was to trim and tuck the wires under the insulator

Legs must be accurately opposed in the direction that they exit the coil. Not merely opposed. If they're set this way with mild tension it will help preserve the integrity of the coil shape. It makes grommet insertion a two-step process. First to align the leads; then, pin insertion after making both end turns taught and coil centered on the mandrel (whatever that is...a screwdriver, bit, etc.). You can't do this easily or at all if you used a guide that is bigger than can fit down in the slot of the atomizer or clearo. Without this method you can never be sure of the real position of your leads or possibility of a short. It's a guessing game and why so many of us go bonkers trying to consistently rebuild these atomizers. A simple method and it takes minutes to get it right every time.

Good luck! Happy Holidays.

 

[InTheShade]

Two ways to build shape into metal: heat and torsion (pressure). One builds in rigidity externally; it's gonna cost you gear, extra time and bucks to torch. The other elasticity, the coil wants to stay a "contact coil" like the spring on a screen door. The latter doesn't require bucks. You need a known diameter so you can duplicate your work and reference it to a resistance value, like a common 1/16" screwdriver, the coil you bought with wire (as a tool) and hand power. No squishy, crunchy required. Too much drama and theater.

Which is easier? Less complicated? More likely to perform over time?

Just sayin'.

Good luck! Happy Holidays.



Footnote: Over-torching will damage the wire before you even build the coil shortening it's life and performance.

You can heat the wire with a regular lighter, no torching is required. Just make the wire glow with a lighter down the length that you are going to use. This will help remove the springiness and make building easier. This is especially effective when using 32ga. wire.

When you have the coil made and installed (but not wicked, and after checking resistance), you can then place it on a battery and then fire it - when it's glowing, release the fire button and squeeze the coils together with needle-nose or tweezers. Do this a few times to make sure those coils are all touching uniformly.
This helps the coil retain it's shape and helps eliminate hot-spots and even hot legs too.