Provari Box Mod

[Garemlin]

I gotta agree with many here. If Provape wants to stay relevant they need to change with the times. With the exception of mechs, tube mods are pretty much dead. Box mods with high power are the now and the future. As I said earlier even if it was a hybrid like the ZNA30 or IPV Mini with higher power. Like the 30-40w range. I used to say that I didn't need anything more than 15w. I have found my vaping habits have changed. To the point that even my Vaporshark rDNA 30's are almost not enough. Now that I have found higher wattage vaping, the 18-25w range, vaping is more enjoyable.

 

[Ca Ike]

I'm really getting tired of this "high powered box mods are the future" shtick. Personally I don't like the box form factor.

 

[Kasanova]

I'm really getting tired of this "high powered box mods are the future" shtick. Personally I don't like the box form factor.

I hate high power box mods, they are so bulky and very unappealing, and very uncomfortable to put into your jeans/shorts pocket or the pocket on a button down shirt or polo/golf shirt. I personally only loved tube mods as well, I would only buy Provari's. Until I held a Yihi SX Mini S Class(non temp mod). It feels nothing like the other box mods out there, I love my provaris because of the ergonomics that it provided, plus it was easy to slip into the pocket and the 18350 mode is a perfect size, but the SX Mini, provides all the above plus more. So I went ahead and bought the S Class, lets just say I have sold all my Provari's but with the exception of the P3, because no one wants to buy it . When the SX Mini M Class(temperature control) came out, I was first in line. Now the wife has the S Class and she also loves it as well, we both like small scale mods. Oh yeah, and I still use my Kayfuns, especially my Kayfun V4 at 16 watts!!!!! Yes 16 watts running a 1.2 coil, damn battery(18650) lasts me until the next morning.

 

[Stubby]

Have you ever tried any other chips, let me tell you, While I love my V2.5s and P3s(vape wise), I gotta say the new SX Mini M or SX Mini S Class with the SX350/SX350J chip blows the vape experience that Provari once brought to the table. You should shy away from Provape here and there and try other devices out in the market. Live for once

Huge power represents a very small portion of the vape market. TC is another issue.

I haven't used the SX series, but I have recently seen enough reviews to know they are not without issues (once you get past the hype). Claiming to have reached vaping nirvana compared to Provari is really moving into la la land. You may like it better for whatever reasons, but claiming that it blows away a Provari is really getting silly.

TC is still very immature and needs a lot of work. It is at least a few years away from being a stable platform. I certainly have not kept up with the day to day issues, but from what I have read the DNA40 has had a lot of growing pains. If someone wants to put their money on an immature technology it is none of my concern, but don't expect the rest of us to follow along. At the moment its for the geeks and is a long way from being ready for the mainstream.

As of today the main application for TC is for high watt users who have far greater issues with dry hits. Sure it can be used for us tootle puffers, but it is really not needed. At this point it is nothing more then an unneeded complication with a much bigger downside then upside. Perhaps in the future it will mature enough to have real use for us low watt users, but that day is not today. It is just to easy wrapping a 1.5 micro coil with some Japanese cotton and be on our merry way.

 

[Garemlin]

TC is still very immature and needs a lot of work. It is at least a few years away from being a stable platform. I certainly have not kept up with the day to day issues, but from what I have read the DNA40 has had a lot of growing pains. If someone wants to put their money on an immature technology it is none of my concern, but don't expect the rest of us to follow along. At the moment its for the geeks and is a long way from being ready for the mainstream.

As of today the main application for TC is for high watt users who have far greater issues with dry hits. Sure it can be used for us tootle puffers, but it is really not needed. At this point it is nothing more then an unneeded complication with a much bigger downside then upside. Perhaps in the future it will mature enough to have real use for us low watt users, but that day is not today. It is just to easy wrapping a 1.5 micro coil with some Japanese cotton and be on our merry way.

I have yet to see a need for me for TC. I hear all of these reasons about why I should give it a try. None have compelled me to though. I don't vape at super high wattage. My builds never give me dry hits. Plus the wire from what I hear is finicky to work with and is more expensive anyway. I'll just keep doing what I am doing.

 

[VNeil]

I would like TC because I drip, and when I get distracted and run my wick dry and then take that huge hit, and get pure burnt cotton.... I want to go to TC, as soon as I stop gagging and coughing. I know it's user error but that's me I need an Off Switch And aside from the bad hit, I go through wicks much more quickly when I get semi-dry hits- those hits that taste just a bit off that are scorching the wick.

Ergonomics... I have a Mini Provari P2.5 that I usually run with an 18350 and a regular Provari 2.5 that I run with an 18650. I never got into the idea of box mods because I thought a tube was the most comfortable fit in my had (and still more or less agree with that but wait...)

Then I got a Kanger Subox, which has an 18650 and is actually shorter than my P2.5 Mini running an 18350. Now, for a mod the height of a Mini, which would you prefer, 700 mAh or 2200 mAh????

And the thing about the Subox is that although it is technically a "box mod" it is truly a tube mod that was only slightly stretched to have an oval cross section, Say what you want about Kanger and made in China and how long it'll last... the design is not only brilliant but it is what every Provari Mini owner would probably like to have - a Mini with a full size 18650 and 2200 mAh.

That Subox retired my two Provaris to second string. As such, I know I have ultra-reliable backup. I will always keep them, but I will never buy another one, and certainly will not buy a P3 to get "almost there" where I want to be with my Subox, vaping conservative dual coil drippers at 0.7 - 1.0 ohms and Kanger Subtank Minis with the RBA deck at 0.5 Ohm (still on the stock RBA coil) or generally .7 ohm to 1.0 Ohm or so on the older RBA decks on my two other Subtanks (which are actually usually config'd to run on the Provari in single coil mode).

For me the Kanger Subtank, running around 25W, was a game changer. The flavor is absolutely magnificent, and better than my Troll RDA's for example, that I run dual coil. The canonical tank for a Provari 2.5 was the Aspire Nautilus. The Subtank Mini is a Nautilus killer, once you've used one the Nautilus will go in the retired drawer. But it really needs about 25W to fully develop. Maybe I'd be happy with a P3, at 20W or maybe not.

So I think Provari should look at the Subox design, and consider the value of a board parallel to the battery instead of on top, adding a couple inches of unnecessary space. The age of the regulated tube mod has passed.

 

[Stubby]

I would like TC because I drip, and when I get distracted and run my wick dry and then take that huge hit, and get pure burnt cotton.... I want to go to TC, as soon as I stop gagging and coughing. I know it's user error but that's me I need an Off Switch And aside from the bad hit, I go through wicks much more quickly when I get semi-dry hits- those hits that taste just a bit off that are scorching the wick.

Ergonomics... I have a Mini Provari P2.5 that I usually run with an 18350 and a regular Provari 2.5 that I run with an 18650. I never got into the idea of box mods because I thought a tube was the most comfortable fit in my had (and still more or less agree with that but wait...)

Then I got a Kanger Subox, which has an 18650 and is actually shorter than my P2.5 Mini running an 18350. Now, for a mod the height of a Mini, which would you prefer, 700 mAh or 2200 mAh????

And the thing about the Subox is that although it is technically a "box mod" it is truly a tube mod that was only slightly stretched to have an oval cross section, Say what you want about Kanger and made in China and how long it'll last... the design is not only brilliant but it is what every Provari Mini owner would probably like to have - a Mini with a full size 18650 and 2200 mAh.

That Subox retired my two Provaris to second string. As such, I know I have ultra-reliable backup. I will always keep them, but I will never buy another one, and certainly will not buy a P3 to get "almost there" where I want to be with my Subox, vaping conservative dual coil drippers at 0.7 - 1.0 ohms and Kanger Subtank Minis with the RBA deck at 0.5 Ohm (still on the stock RBA coil) or generally .7 ohm to 1.0 Ohm or so on the older RBA decks on my two other Subtanks (which are actually usually config'd to run on the Provari in single coil mode).

For me the Kanger Subtank, running around 25W, was a game changer. The flavor is absolutely magnificent, and better than my Troll RDA's for example, that I run dual coil. The canonical tank for a Provari 2.5 was the Aspire Nautilus. The Subtank Mini is a Nautilus killer, once you've used one the Nautilus will go in the retired drawer. But it really needs about 25W to fully develop. Maybe I'd be happy with a P3, at 20W or maybe not.

So I think Provari should look at the Subox design, and consider the value of a board parallel to the battery instead of on top, adding a couple inches of unnecessary space. The age of the regulated tube mod has passed.

I really cannot disagree with you. The Kanger Subox kit is the first thing that has intrigued me in a long time. I did get the Subtank mini plus (The newest version) and have been using it exclusively. It is not better then my kayfun v4 clone, but it's as good, and a lot simpler design. There is a whole lot less to go wrong (always a good thing). With the improved wicking of the Subtank mini plus I would guess I will never come close to having dry hits so even less need for TC. I'm still happy running my usual 1.5 Ohm single micro coil at a whopping 12 watts on the smallest air hole, so that is what it is. Occasionally I'll get frisky and open it to the second air hole and push it to 15 watts. After a short thrill ride I dial it back.

Using a large battery with the electronics on the side is a good design. The Provari with a 18650 is moving into the absurd and something I would never do, even though I would like to have the extended battery life. What holds my back is I have other priorities, with the big one being reliability. I know my Provari 2.5 is going to work every time, and it did just that for a long time. For me that is number one in importance. I have been at this game to long to want to deal with unreliable devices. I used the 2.5 for a long time and it was the only device I had. One basic 2.5 mini and I never even looked at anything else.

It started dawning on my that perhaps I should have a back up (I know, rationalization) so I got the P3. I really didn't need it with the watts I'm pushing but I have a very dependable back up to my very reliable P3. The Subox may very well prove to be reliable in the long run, but that remains to be seen.

 

[VNeil]

I really cannot disagree with you. The Kanger Subox kit is the first thing that has intrigued me in a long time. I did get the subtank mini plus topper and have been using it exclusively. It is not better then my kayfun v4 clone, but it's as good, and a lot simpler design. There is a whole lot less to go wrong (always a good thing). With the improved wicking of the Subtank mini plus I would guess I will never come close to having dry hits so even less need for TC. I'm still happy running my usual 1.5 Ohm single micro coil at a whopping 12 watts on the smallest air hole, so that is what it is. Occasionally I'll get frisky and open it to the second air hole and push it to 15 watts. After a short thrill ride I dial it back.

Using a large battery with the electronics on the side is a good design. The Provari with a 18650 is moving into the absurd and something I would never do, even though I would like to have the extended battery life. What holds my back is I have other priorities, with the big one being reliability. I know my Provari 2.5 is going to work every time, and it did just that for a long time. For me that is number one in importance. I have been at this game to long to want to deal with unreliable devices. I used the 2.5 for a long time and it was the only device I had. One basic 2.5 mini and I never even looked at anything else.

It started dawning on my that perhaps I should have a back up (I know, rationalization) so I got the P3. I really didn't need it with the watts I'm pushing but I have a very dependable back up to my very reliable P3. The Subox may very well prove to be reliable in the long run, but that remains to be seen.

Here's how I look at it: I have two very reliable backups, my Provaris. A Subox kit can be had for about $60. At that price you are paying $30 for a tank you already like (although maybe not as much as your Kayfun?), and $30 for the mod. As long as the mod doesn't blow up and you always have a Provari handy as backup then reliability may not have to be the penultimate priority. Reliability is very important to me. I have not been without a working mod since I started vaping, and I never want to be tempted to go buy a pack of smokes. So I mix and match now.
I very briefly vaped a KFL+, which I did not like because of the whistle and restricted airflow, and the PITA of filling through a set screw. I know the KF V4 has improved on some of those things but once I tried the Subtank I had pretty much what I wanted. I've been tempted to try the V4 (a clone) just to see what people like about it but I've throttled back my "R&D" spending on hardware a lot.

One thing I really like about the Subtank, other than the great flavor I get, is that I can buy spare RBA decks and keep them around pre-built and ready to go. Kind of like factory coils, just pop a new one in don't even have to empty the tank, as long as I keep up with the rebuilding. Also lets me play with different builds. Most RTAs don't have easily sourcable spare rebuild decks. All part of my reliability strategy

 

[Stubby]

Here's how I look at it: I have two very reliable backups, my Provaris. A Subox kit can be had for about $60. At that price you are paying $30 for a tank you already like (although maybe not as much as your Kayfun?), and $30 for the mod. As long as the mod doesn't blow up and you always have a Provari handy as backup then reliability may not have to be the penultimate priority. Reliability is very important to me. I have not been without a working mod since I started vaping, and I never want to be tempted to go buy a pack of smokes. So I mix and match now.
I very briefly vaped a KFL+, which I did not like because of the whistle and restricted airflow, and the PITA of filling through a set screw. I know the KF V4 has improved on some of those things but once I tried the Subtank I had pretty much what I wanted. I've been tempted to try the V4 (a clone) just to see what people like about it but I've throttled back my "R&D" spending on hardware a lot.

One thing I really like about the Subtank, other than the great flavor I get, is that I can buy spare RBA decks and keep them around pre-built and ready to go. Kind of like factory coils, just pop a new one in don't even have to empty the tank, as long as I keep up with the rebuilding. Also lets me play with different builds. Most RTAs don't have easily sourcable spare rebuild decks. All part of my reliability strategy

I understand your logic and it is sound, but with the P3 on hand I just feel no need to try out the Subox at this point.

As for the Kayfun v4, it is a good topper and I'm glad I have one, but truth be told I just don't trust it. I have had a few issues that took some fiddling to fix. It is all working good right now, but I do prefer the Subtank plus for its simplicity and flexibility. I'm not enough of a flavor chaser (I vape a good deal of unflavored) to tell you if the flavor is better on the kayfun, but if it is it is not by much. The Kayfun V4 has a whole bunch of O-rings, and a complex design due mostly to the ability to lock off the liquid flow. It solves the filling problem but creates other issues. In the end for me it is better just to turn it upside down, unscrew the bottom and fill it. It is only slightly more difficult then the Kayfun and for me the trade off is well worth it.

 

[VNeil]

I understand your logic and it is sound, but with the P3 on hand I just feel no need to try out the Subox at this point.

As for the Kayfun v4, it is a good topper and I'm glad I have one, but truth be told I just don't trust it. I have had a few issues that took some fiddling to fix. It is all working good right now, but I do prefer the Subtank plus for its simplicity and flexibility. I'm not enough of a flavor chaser (I vape a good deal of unflavored) to tell you if the flavor is better on the kayfun, but if it is it is not by much. The Kayfun V4 has a whole bunch of O-rings, and a complex design due mostly to the ability to lock off the liquid flow. It solves the filling problem but creates other issues. In the end for me it is better just to turn it upside down, unscrew the bottom and fill it. It is only slightly more difficult then the Kayfun and for me the trade off is well worth it.

The Subtank Mini is true simplicity. And it's been very reliable once I modified the RBA decks to increase juice flow. Dry hits when I pushed the power was the only real issue I've had, other than an occasional leak out of the AF holes. But leaky mods is sort of par for the course, right?

I guess if you are not running the P3 at full throttle and then thinking about what else you could get out of it, then it is doing everything you need it to do. When my finger was hovering over the buy button for a P3 that is what I was worried about... that it would be better, that I would be able to finesse a dual coil setup at a full 20W but it would be leaving me wanting to turn it up. After throwing $200 or more at it. What I like about the Subox is that I am never left wanting more power. So it is all perfect for my vaping style now.

 

[AstroTurf]

P3 Titanium at 20 Watts
Venturi by NeoVapeTek Dripper, Dual Coil, Twisted to .51 ohms
Five Pawns Castle Long Reserve

Wanting for Nothing... But More Juice!!!

Cheers, Jim

 

[tearose50]

Interesting read!

I agree with some --- especially the efficiency of a short rounded body that holds an 18650.

Some always want MOAR POWER -- My passion is tidy size and long battery life. Subox (Kbox mini), and Heatvape Defender size, shape and weight are quite nice. A ProVi version would be very very tempting---in 2.5; classic or P3. A Kato type style (with tank sort of sunken on the side) would be exceptional --- if it were Ti!

 

[VNeil]

Left to right, an iStick 50W, Provari 2.5 Mini and a Kanger Kbox Mini/Subox. I added the iStick since I think it more or less has dual cells in it, although a dual 18650 would probably be a tad fatter? I bought the iStick just so I could live on the edge

20150719_13441136

• VNeil
• Jul 19, 2015

 

[Stubby]

Interesting read!

I agree with some --- especially the efficiency of a short rounded body that holds an 18650.

Some always want MOAR POWER -- My passion is tidy size and long battery life. Subox (Kbox mini), and Heatvape Defender size, shape and weight are quite nice. A ProVi version would be very very tempting---in 2.5; classic or P3. A Kato type style (with tank sort of sunken on the side) would be exceptional --- if it were Ti!

I am certainly not a watt chaser, but a thought did dawn on me tonight. I would guess the P3 watt limitations are built around the 18350 battery. Since you can use three sizes they have to limit it to the smallest that can be used to keep it within their safety protocol (I am a big fan of their safety protocols). With a Subox type design they could limit it to the 18650 and still keep it small and tidy, but build the limits around a 18650. I couldn't tell you what the watts and amperage would be within Provapes safety protocols, but it has to be a good deal more then the 18350. Higher watts with no compromise in safety. I may never use them but it is apparent there are those that do.

Take this a step farther with a Subox style but built around the 18350. Now we are talking tiny, but still all the watts and safety of the current P3. Limiting the device to one battery size opens up a lot of possibilities as they can build around the limits of that one battery size. I would guess a tiny 20 watt Provari box would very likely have a decent size fan base.

 

[VNeil]

I am certainly not a watt chaser, but a thought did dawn on me tonight. I would guess the P3 watt limitations are built around the 18350 battery. Since you can use three sizes they have to limit it to the smallest that can be used to keep it within their safety protocol (I am a big fan of their safety protocols). With a Subox type design they could limit it to the 18650 and still keep it small and tidy, but build the limits around a 18650. I couldn't tell you what the watts and amperage would be within Provapes safety protocols, but it has to be a good deal more then the 18350. Higher watts with no compromise in safety. I may never use them but it is apparent there are those that do.

Take this a step farther with a Subox style but built around the 18350. Now we are talking tiny, but still all the watts and safety of the current P3. Limiting the device to one battery size opens up a lot of possibilities as they can build around the limits of that one battery size. I would guess a tiny 20 watt Provari box would very likely have a decent size fan base.

@Stubby, all good thoughts there. The AW IMR 18350 has a 6A rating, limiting it to 24 watts, more or less, and Provape might not want to push that envelope to the max. And if that is the main (only) reason for the 20W limit on the P3 then that makes a Subox style Provari even more attractive.

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

the chip should be
made
to recognize which battery is in and adjust accordingly.

 

[Stubby]

the chip should be
made
to recognize which battery is in and adjust accordingly.

I am not a programmer or an electrical engineer, but I would guess this would add a fairly dense level of complexity to the programming. Besides recognizing which battery is in the device, you also have a separate code for each battery. Not having a clue as to the deep tech stuff I would have no idea how easy or difficult this would be. A one battery size approach would certainly be a lot more straight forward.

But who knows, perhaps the minions ProVape have locked in the basement are working on it as we speak.

 

[VNeil]

the chip should be
made
to recognize which battery is in and adjust accordingly.

And how would the chip figure out which size battery is in use. Does the battery tell it something other than a measurable voltage?

 

[Stubby]

And how would the chip figure out which size battery is in use. Does the battery tell it something other than a measurable voltage?

Good point. I don't know if it is possible for the chip to figure out what size battery is being used. The only real difference is the mAh.

 

[r77r7r]

How about a Provari chipset in a Billet Box?