Putting it all together for the best flavor.

[carldamnit]

I am about 6 months in and still fumbling around like two teenagers in the dark. I received my first adjustable mod thursday and am impressed at how well you can dial things in.

First, let me say that I am an electronics technician by trade so the amps/ohms/volts/watts does not phase me. Through my professional life I have always looked to amps as my "go to" measurement. It still holds true with vaping as you are looking to provide enough current to a coil to produce the correct vapor. With that said wattage basically shows the same thing. The variable wattage devices are the way to go, or you could do the math every time you swap tanks/cartos. There are Ohm's Law apps that are very good and free if you are interested.

Now the hard part to fumble through:
Wicking
This throws easy out the window. You could write a book on the various materials and thickness of liquids to create a proper tasting vapor.

I have watched lots of Pbusardo's videos where he stays around 8 watts for his right spot. I am pretty sure he stays at 50/50 pg/vg. Since my start was with 70/30 pg/vg I have stuck to it to remove at least one variable from all this. All my coils (except for very few experiments) are stock. 7.5 watts gives a muted flavor and dry hits, but 6.5 watts evens all this out. My tanks are Vision CE4, Vivi Nova, Kanger T3, and Kanger Pro Tank.

I am guessing that the thicker e-liquid takes more current to burn efficently?

I am curious to see if this holds true in general.

Airflow
Up till now I have only used the eGo batteries and I haven't been able to control airflow with anything but the Protank (it comes with a collar to restrict airflow on an eGo connection).
Too much airflow causes a thin dry taste, too little, juice in your mouth.
The Kangar T3, IMHO, should never be used on an eGo battery, too much airflow as it is not on a flat base. I wanted to throw these out when I first bought them.
Too much wicking material and you are restricting the the flow of juice, which is why people have problems with the bottom coil clearomizers. Too little wicking material and you flood.

These are my assumptions six months in, I would really appreciate feedback from you guys to make sure I'm not headed down a blind alley.

Thanks!

 

[Thrasher]

well this is where rebuildables come in as well as rebuilding things like kanger heads as well.
you decide what works for your tastes and juices not some factory.

things like variances in the wick holes, the grommets covering said holes, maybe today they used a wick thats 1.8 instead of 1.5mm. the washers are different on and on.
maybe they were off a little and the juice actually came out more like 60/40. how many/what kind of additives also may cause wicking to slow down or the wicks to clog faster.
this kind of stuff will also affect wicking in prebuilt devices.

and looking at busardo's juice list will show he is all over the board as far as mixes goes. some premade juices dont offer blends you get what they make and have to adjust accordingly.

in the beginning i used clearos a lot. kanger t2's t3's and good ol ce 4's. while i enjoyed vaping, my real love and flavor experience didnt truly set in until i got my first rebuildable, you control the coil, the wicking, the way you build it and types of wicks themselves influence the flavor, my favorite right now is a german silica that just makes the vapor have a small creamy note. dont know why.

to give you an example i got the protank, fired it up and said hmm pretty flavorless, and gave it to the guy at work.

if you are adept and already a techy type person do yourself a favor and get some cheap drippers to experiment on. then maybe a genesis later if it appeals to you.
you will find a massive difference in flavor and vapor, your disposable costs will go down and the enjoyment of tuning devices to exactly the results you expect are deeply rewarding.
there is nothing prebuilt that can match the experience of firing up a newly wicked dripper that makes your head swim every hit.

 

[SissySpike]

Thats why I have to shake my head at so many of the advise posts. There are so many variables to consider when some one says my clearo isn't working. Yet people will jump in giving half cocked advise on how to fix it.
Thrasher is right you are a good candidate for rebuildable stuff. I do think you might be over complicating things just a bit you dont have to know one smidgen of math to start at 3V or 3W and dial in what you like. Taste is subjective so all the math in the world wont make us like a 3.0 ohm cart at the same setting on the same mod with the same juice.

Airy or tight draw is also subjective. People will argue over that just as passionately as who makes the better truck Ford or Chevy. When every one knows Ford is the better truck;-)

 

[carldamnit]

well this is where rebuildables come in as well as rebuilding things like kanger heads as well.
you decide what works for your tastes and juices not some factory.

things like variances in the wick holes, the grommets covering said holes, maybe today they used a wick thats 1.8 instead of 1.5mm. the washers are different on and on.
maybe they were off a little and the juice actually came out more like 60/40. how many/what kind of additives also may cause wicking to slow down or the wicks to clog faster.
this kind of stuff will also affect wicking in prebuilt devices.

and looking at busardo's juice list will show he is all over the board as far as mixes goes. some premade juices dont offer blends you get what they make and have to adjust accordingly.

in the beginning i used clearos a lot. kanger t2's t3's and good ol ce 4's. while i enjoyed vaping, my real love and flavor experience didnt truly set in until i got my first rebuildable, you control the coil, the wicking, the way you build it and types of wicks themselves influence the flavor, my favorite right now is a german silica that just makes the vapor have a small creamy note. dont know why.

to give you an example i got the protank, fired it up and said hmm pretty flavorless, and gave it to the guy at work.

if you are adept and already a techy type person do yourself a favor and get some cheap drippers to experiment on. then maybe a genesis later if it appeals to you.
you will find a massive difference in flavor and vapor, your disposable costs will go down and the enjoyment of tuning devices to exactly the results you expect are deeply rewarding.
there is nothing prebuilt that can match the experience of firing up a newly wicked dripper that makes your head swim every hit.

I know everyone's taste is different, but there has to be some kind of median current level that works for the wick and coil/juice thickness you are working with. All I can guess about the 8 watt vaping is he has one heck of a wick to keep up with the higher ammount of current he is using.

I have purchased an AGA T+ and am just starting to play with it, waiting on wick in the mail currently. I am trying to get more of a baseline for all of this. For instance the Vision CE4 (not a knock off) has two different sized wicks, both are small. At 6 watts flush mounted provides good flavor, wicking and uses less juice than the larger tanks. My AGA T+ with a similar 2.4 ohm coil (trying to keep some constants), 2mm ekowool wick at 6 watts doesn't provide near the flavor and gets worse at higher watts (this is due to the wick). I rebuilt a CE4 with the ekowool being careful to open the head a bit to allow for good wicking and got better but similar results (shorter dual wick).
My next experiment with the AGA T+ is making a U wick to see if it improves, as well as experimenting with other wicking material.

Even with the small variables in manufacturing I am positive you can get all this put together in a usable package. Why do you think a Vision CE4 2.4 ohm coil (not knock offs), an eGo battery (3.7 volts) and 70/30 eliquid is pretty much an ideal, low cost set up for new vapors.

That Protank is a whole other can of worms. With the wick at the bottom it has to not only stop the liquid from leaking out but it also has to wick. If you remove one of the flavor wicks (fluff the remaining wicks) and store it on its mouthpiece it works remarkably well. When my coil burns out I am going to try 3mm wick that lots of people are recommending.

 

[carldamnit]

Thats why I have to shake my head at so many of the advise posts. There are so many variables to consider when some one says my clearo isn't working. Yet people will jump in giving half cocked advise on how to fix it.
Thrasher is right you are a good candidate for rebuildable stuff. I do think you might be over complicating things just a bit you dont have to know one smidgen of math to start at 3V or 3W and dial in what you like. Taste is subjective so all the math in the world wont make us like a 3.0 ohm cart at the same setting on the same mod with the same juice.

Airy or tight draw is also subjective. People will argue over that just as passionately as who makes the better truck Ford or Chevy. When every one knows Ford is the better truck;-)

I know I don't have everything nailed down enough to prove this out but I think it is a lot more precise than people think. Since all this stuff is made in china and quality control not being what it could be I can see where different people are thinking it is more of a personal preference thing.

I think the current setting comes down to Wick/Coil size and the thickness of e-liquid you are using. Dang the bad luck, I have to keep experimenting

 

[SissySpike]

Then you get something like a Spheroid or Olympus and you have a completely new set of parameters. You also have to consider wick materials and quality they are not all the same. Just standard silica some are loosely wrapped and some are tighter.
Then we have Mesh what gauge for what juice. wire ribbon it goes on and on. We also have how the power is delivered. VV/VW is really not necessary when making LR stuff. Most find they prefer unregulated for RBAs I will pick my Kayfun 3.1 on my Poldiac over any off the shelf clearo on my Provari any day.

 

[carldamnit]

Then you get something like a Spheroid or Olympus and you have a completely new set of parameters. You also have to consider wick materials and quality they are not all the same. Just standard silica some are loosely wrapped and some are tighter.
Then we have Mesh what gauge for what juice. wire ribbon it goes on and on. We also have how the power is delivered. VV/VW is really not necessary when making LR stuff. Most find they prefer unregulated for RBAs I will pick my Kayfun 3.1 on my Poldiac over any off the shelf clearo on my Provari any day.

The guage of wire just changes the resistance, so it would be predictable. If you want less wraps you would use higher resistance wire. More wraps for lower resistance wire. More wraps = more contact with the wick = more vapor. The ribbon wire allows more contact with the wick. As long as the wick can keep up it should be fine.

As for as mesh, I'm not going there. I know I am probably missing out on some wonderful wicking but the technician in me just screams out against this. There is just too much of a chance to short out and possibly ruin your battery or cause a "Venting with flames" for me to be comfortable with.

 

[tj99959]

The thing is that every combination of products that you try gives you different options that you can try with it. In reality you can make almost any combination of products work pretty well .... if you're willing to put in the effort to learn how to make it work well. (and yes, it can frustrate the hell out of you)

The problem is that what I like best has nothing to do with what you will like best, which makes most suggestions rather redundant.
I will make one suggestion however. Find one combination that you can rely on, doesn't matter if it's a simple cartomizer on an eGo, or atomizer on a mechanical, or whatever. Just as long as you can count on it to work when everything else fails. This eliminates most of the frustration when you want to try new or different things.

 

[SissySpike]

The guage of wire just changes the resistance, so it would be predictable. If you want less wraps you would use higher resistance wire. More wraps for lower resistance wire. More wraps = more contact with the wick = more vapor. The ribbon wire allows more contact with the wick. As long as the wick can keep up it should be fine.

As for as mesh, I'm not going there. I know I am probably missing out on some wonderful wicking but the technician in me just screams out against this. There is just too much of a chance to short out and possibly ruin your battery or cause a "Venting with flames" for me to be comfortable with.

This one is a great mystery to me. I very seldom have shorts when I use ribbon but almost always have a short to work out with wire you'd think it would be the opposite. You can put a bit of eco wool over the top of a mesh wick as a insulator. But honestly you can taste a short and you will not vape it long enough to cause any problems. It takes several minutes of a dead short to smoke a IMR battery so a couple of seconds to fix a wire short wont hurt.

 

[double_aa_ron]

The problem is the delivery devices that you are using. Clearomizers just aren't quite there yet. I have tried them all(Protank, Vivi Nova, T3, iClear 16, iClear 30, etc, etc). All of them leak, gurgle, and just plane ol underperform from time to time. Vaping with a clearo is supposed to be simple, but looking at the OP it obviously is not. That is why a carto tank is my go to for a reliable consistent vape. When clearos work well, they are great, but when they don't (which is far too often) they are among the most frustrating things in the world.

I do like my RBA's as well, but you will never see me carry an AGA-T around as my all day vape. It (and all Genesis style atomizers) leak and are far too finicky. I can't be at work and stop everything to fiddle with my coil because out of the blue it developed a hot spot. I do however like rebuildable dripping atomizers on my Reo. For the most part you don't have to worry about hotspots or shorts. There is no leaking on my Reo, and if you build a good coil the vape is far better than any clearo or carto can provide.

 

[Thrasher]

The guage of wire just changes the resistance, so it would be predictable. If you want less wraps you would use higher resistance wire. More wraps for lower resistance wire. More wraps = more contact with the wick = more vapor. The ribbon wire allows more contact with the wick. As long as the wick can keep up it should be fine.

ah but there are even more variables then that. what about lower resistance wire being thicker. so more wire surface wrap per wrap touching the wick
being someone who understand electric, how does the skin effect at higher wattages come into play?

what about wraps being lose or too tight, then you account for heatsink effect. wire gauge also determines how fast the wire comes up to vaporizing temperature.

then with mesh. a fat wick holds more juice but may need a hotter coil to counter the heatsink effect whereas a thinner smaller wick will get hot faster but may not keep up with the vapor draw.

while i understand a lot of your points, there is a lot more subjectivity to it then it seems. on the same atty one person likes 10 watts, hand it to the next guy and he goes for 8 because he likes the flavor better and doesnt care if the cloud is smaller.

and yes until china can produce the same identicle results time after time it will still be inconsistent device after device.
proof of this can be seen with any vivi nova head. buy 10 of the same resistance, good luck getting one to actually read that number.

 

[carldamnit]

ah but there are even more variables then that. what about lower resistance wire being thicker. so more wire surface wrap per wrap touching the wick
being someone who understand electric, how does the skin effect at higher wattages come into play?

what about wraps being lose or too tight, then you account for heatsink effect. wire gauge also determines how fast the wire comes up to vaporizing temperature.

then with mesh. a fat wick holds more juice but may need a hotter coil to counter the heatsink effect whereas a thinner smaller wick will get hot faster but may not keep up with the vapor draw.

while i understand a lot of your points, there is a lot more subjectivity to it then it seems. on the same atty one person likes 10 watts, hand it to the next guy and he goes for 8 because he likes the flavor better and doesnt care if the cloud is smaller.

and yes until china can produce the same identicle results time after time it will still be inconsistent device after device.
proof of this can be seen with any vivi nova head. buy 10 of the same resistance, good luck getting one to actually read that number.

With the diameter of the wire being larger it would create more contact, but not enough to matter. What matters is the more coils making more contact at the same current level.

A tight wrap is going to choke off wicking and a loose wrap is going to lose contact with the wick. From what I have seen most people use a needle or needle bottle tip while wrapping to correct these problems.

The heatsink effect was what I was getting at on my original post. 8 watts versus 6. Does thicker juice take longer to burn off than thinner? It can't wick as well.

But all in all I would think there are constants that are predictable. Like say if you used 2mm ekowool with 6 wraps of 32 gage Kanthal (2.4 ohm), and 70/30 pg/vg; you would want to run at 1.6 amps (roughly 6 watts). I am thinking this would provide basicly the same experience for anyone. If you got it too hot it would burn, if you got it too cool it would be muted.