puzzling behavior -- anyone know?

[AndriaD]

I'm seeing some pretty weird behavior from one of my iStick30s, which I really can't explain, so I thought I would ask the battery experts.

I have 2 iStick30s; one of them works perfectly, no issues of any kind -- though I dropped it twice on ceramic tile the first day I owned it!

The other one... has never been dropped, nor abused in any other way. Mainly it's sat on my counter for some months, as I've been using my CF4s pretty much all the time. But lately I took a notion to use this particular iStick30 -- and found it had discharged almost entirely (though I hadn't been using it at all for quite some time). But I'm aware that batteries can slowly discharge over time, so I didn't think much about it, just plugged it in and let it charge, then used it just for a few test puffs of a new mix. Then it sat there for a couple weeks, not being used... and this morning, I discovered that once again it had discharged almost completely. Again, I plugged it in and let it charge, and it seemed to do that normally, but at this point, my puzzlement has a tinge of concern, because I know this is not normal behavior.

Any ideas of what could be causing this? Any ideas of, is this battery safe to use? At +/- $30, back in April, I won't be crushed if the general opinion is that it's totally fubar and shouldn't be used at all, but I'd just like to know if anyone can help me understand what's going on with it.

thx much!!
Andria

 

[Freedom2Vape]

Did you leave a tank on it while it sat idle?

 

[AndriaD]

Did you leave a tank on it while it sat idle?

The first time I found it discharged, it had an RDA on it for a couple months, then removed, and it sat idle without any topper for a couple months. This morning, no; since I used it a couple weeks ago, I had removed the RDA that I tried a few puffs in, and it sat for 2 wks with nothing at all on it, though I didn't turn it off -- I've never really found a reason to turn off mods, unless I'm sticking them in my purse. But after I charged it today, I did turn it off, and I thought I would check it in a few days, a week or so, to see how it had fared.

This is particularly weird to me since the other iStick30 has sat with a topper on it for some weeks, with occasional use, and is still quite fully charged; and my sigelie zmax, also mostly unused, has had an 18500 in it since the time I first discovered the discharged iStick, and it's still at 3.9v.

Andria

 

[Freedom2Vape]

If it had an RDA/tank on it, I was wondering if there was any e-liquid left in the RDA/tank - was the coil/wick ok? Do you think it may be self firing? My wife's iStick 30 started doing that within a week after purchase. Fortunately the B&M replaced it free and we haven't had another issue with it. Not sure what caused the it.

 

[AndriaD]

If it had an RDA/tank on it, I was wondering if there was any e-liquid left in the RDA/tank - was the coil/wick ok? Do you think it may be self firing? My wife's iStick 30 started doing that within a week after purchase. Fortunately the B&M replaced it free and we haven't had another issue with it. Not sure what caused the it.

Nah, it wasn't doing that; it was here on my kitchen counter, I'd have noticed if anything like that was going on. And there was a tiny bit of juice left in the magma, though it had darkened drastically after just sitting there unused for so long (it was a tobacco flavor, so I'd definitely have noticed the smell if it was auto-firing!). It just seems like some sort of voltage drain, but I can't figure out why or how it would be draining like that.

Andria

 

[Kevin littell]

I would say, and the symptoms match the diagnostics, that its got a bad battery in it.

Sorry, unit is switching off but the battery (idle and nothing on the display which would indicate a sticky button if it stayed lit off) isn't holding a charge. I've had several 18650's go bad over the years......Thats one of the things I look for after a battery gets to be about a year old.

Of course, the good news is it didnt auto fire in your purse during the drive to work!


Retire it Darling....I just picked up a Cool fire 4 for 39 bucks with my last juice order.....much better box mod!

 

[Freedom2Vape]

Nah, it wasn't doing that; it was here on my kitchen counter, I'd have noticed if anything like that was going on. And there was a tiny bit of juice left in the magma, though it had darkened drastically after just sitting there unused for so long (it was a tobacco flavor, so I'd definitely have noticed the smell if it was auto-firing!). It just seems like some sort of voltage drain, but I can't figure out why or how it would be draining like that.

Andria

Yes - that doesn't sound like the same issue. My wife still occasionally uses the iStick 30 - I'll ask her if she had to charge it the last time before she could use it. Normally she charges it before she lets it sit.

 

[VNeil]

I have an iStick 50W that self discharges over the course of a couple of weeks (I think). The 2nd time it did not have a topper, don't recall if it did the first time. Since you have two 30's, you could "retire" your daily mod and let it sit for a few weeks while you use the other. See if it exhibits the same behavior.

My speculative theory is that the board is always "live" even if it's turned off, and it may be consuming 1ma or so of power just sitting and thinking about whatever iSticks think about. There are 24*30=720 hours in a month. If you let it sit for two months that's 1440 hours. If the thing uses 1ma of power while idling that is 1440 mAh worth of power or almost a full battery (I'm not going to look up the capacity now but you get the point I hope). In my case my 50W supposedly has about 4400 mAh capacity but I just pulled 1ma out of the top of my head. Could be more.

 

[AndriaD]

I would say, and the symptoms match the diagnostics, that its got a bad battery in it.

Sorry, unit is switching off but the battery (idle and nothing on the display which would indicate a sticky button if it stayed lit off) isn't holding a charge. I've had several 18650's go bad over the years......Thats one of the things I look for after a battery gets to be about a year old.

Of course, the good news is it didnt auto fire in your purse during the drive to work!


Retire it Darling....I just picked up a Cool fire 4 for 39 bucks with my last juice order.....much better box mod!

Yeah that was what i suspected after seeing this twice, and this time just a couple of weeks after a full charge. Sorta sucks, but with a cheap mod... not entirely a surprise.

I just checked it, since, as I said, this morning after charging, I did turn it off -- and it still appears to be fully charged. So it would seem that it passively discharges anytime it's left on. Guess it could still be useful for occasional use, but not dependable. With my other iStick30w and 3 CF4s, really not a huge deal.

Andria

 

[Mooch]

Yeah that was what i suspected after seeing this twice, and this time just a couple of weeks after a full charge. Sorta sucks, but with a cheap mod... not entirely a surprise.

I just checked it, since, as I said, this morning after charging, I did turn it off -- and it still appears to be fully charged. So it would seem that it passively discharges anytime it's left on. Guess it could still be useful for occasional use, but not dependable. With my other iStick30w and 3 CF4s, really not a huge deal.

Andria

Once a li-ion battery drops to a very low voltage it can get damaged. This damage can cause the "leakage current" to increase which causes the battery to self-discharge even faster. This could be what happened to your mod after the first deep discharge.

 

[AndriaD]

Once a li-ion battery drops to a very low voltage it can get damaged. This damage can cause the "leakage current" to increase which causes the battery to self-discharge even faster. This could be what happened to your mod after the first deep discharge.

But since it wasn't being used, but still did that deep discharge... seems to indicate the problem was already present.

Andria

 

[Mooch]

But since it wasn't being used, but still did that deep discharge... seems to indicate the problem was already present.

Andria

Could definitely be. Even new batteries self-discharge and part of our mods is always "awake" in order to sense when the button is pressed 3 or 5 times to wake it up fully. Some current is drawn even when partially awake, as @VNeil mentioned, and this can add up quickly depending on the mod. Add on that the battery was possibly a lousy one, with a short life expectancy, and/or it got overdischarged before. Maybe...

 

[AndriaD]

Could definitely be. Even new batteries self-discharge and part of our mods is always "awake" in order to sense when the button is pressed 3 or 5 times to wake it up fully. Some current is drawn even when partially awake, as @VNeil mentioned, and this can add up quickly depending on the mod. Add on that the battery was possibly a lousy one, with a short life expectancy, and/or it got overdischarged before. Maybe...

I don't think it was ever over-discharged, before this; as I said, never abused in any way, and I'm always careful to charge when it gets down to about 3.6 or so. But, it's a cheapie, so I'm really not terribly surprised, just kinda glad that my malfunction wasn't something like auto-firing or something even worse. I'll keep it turned off, and check it again in a week or so, see how it looks then. If it's discharged *at all* I may take it to a radio shack or home depot and see about recycling it. If it's not discharged, then I'll hang on to it as a backup mod, but not for regular use.

Andria

 

[Kevin littell]

Keep it around as a " last resort spare."

 

[mostlyclassics]

I've let all kinds of "smart" mods, from cheapies to ProVaris, sit for a while (from weeks to a couple of months or more). In every case, they've slowly discharged. My assumption for this behavior is that the battery is keeping the mod's brains warmed up and ready to roll.

Dang! My oldest ProVari (bought almost four years ago) just discharged after sitting on my desk unvaped for over a month! I know I fed it a freshly-charged battery. It's had an Aspire Nautilus sitting on it all that time.

There. I just changed the battery (AW 18650, 1600 mAh). No problems: works fine now.

Also, I've had batteries get lost in the bottom of my battery box slowly discharge over a period of six months or more.

 

[AndriaD]

Keep it around as a " last resort spare."

Actually I've already got 3 vv3's in that classification. They even hold a charge, but 800mAh just ain't very much, AND I have to pop the battery post back up in every one of them, everytime I change the topper. That's why all the mods I've bought since them have either spring'ed 510, or it's in there well enough that it doesn't migrate (the Sigelei Zmax!).

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

I've let all kinds of "smart" mods, from cheapies to ProVaris, sit for a while (from weeks to a couple of months or more). In every case, they've slowly discharged. My assumption for this behavior is that the battery is keeping the mod's brains warmed up and ready to roll.

Dang! My oldest ProVari (bought almost four years ago) just discharged after sitting on my desk unvaped for over a month! I know I fed it a freshly-charged battery.

Well sure, a slow discharge is pretty normal -- but from fully charged to fully discharged in 2 weeks, without any use... that's pretty drastic. None of my other batteries of any kind discharge that rapidly, when sitting unused, even if they're "on."

Andria

 

[VNeil]

I don't think it was ever over-discharged, before this; as I said, never abused in any way, and I'm always careful to charge when it gets down to about 3.6 or so. But, it's a cheapie, so I'm really not terribly surprised, just kinda glad that my malfunction wasn't something like auto-firing or something even worse. I'll keep it turned off, and check it again in a week or so, see how it looks then. If it's discharged *at all* I may take it to a radio shack or home depot and see about recycling it. If it's not discharged, then I'll hang on to it as a backup mod, but not for regular use.

Andria

If I'm correct that there is *some* current draw even when switched off, then here is an interesting scenario:

Either you ran the battery well down with use (but not necessarily all the way or too far!) or the mod discharged the battery over some time. Now, the question is: at what battery voltage will the mod totally shut itself down, to the point where the discharge is zero?

This is a mod you apparently never or rarely used, keeping it as backup. Which fits my scenario. And your situation suggests that people should not just "throw unused mods in a drawer" but regularly charge them. And why they may not be the best choice for vapocalypse proofing things. There are a number of reasons I don't prefer mods with internal batteries like this, and one of them is related to the fact that it may be impossible to totally shut them down and stop all battery drain. Like you can do by removing a removable battery and putting it in it's storage case. And even then, loose batteries should be charged periodically but being permanently inside a p[presumably always live mod suggests they need to be recharged fairly regularly in order to avoid an over-discharge.

And also they should always be fully charged before "retiring" or taking an extended vacation as backup.

ETA: what I'm trying to say in the above is a scenario where they could over discharge all by themselves, depending on the design details. This doesn't require user abuse unless you consider letting it sit without recharging abuse or misuse.

 

[AndriaD]

If I'm correct that there is *some* current draw even when switched off, then here is an interesting scenario:

Either you ran the battery well down with use (but not necessarily all the way or too far!) or the mod discharged the battery over some time. Now, the question is: at what battery voltage will the mod totally shut itself down, to the point where the discharge is zero?

This is a mod you apparently never or rarely used, keeping it as backup. Which fits my scenario. And your situation suggests that people should not just "throw unused mods in a drawer" but regularly charge them. And why they may not be the best choice for vapocalypse proofing things. There are a number of reasons I don't prefer mods with internal batteries like this, and one of them is related to the fact that it may be impossible to totally shut them down and stop all battery drain. Like you can do by removing a removable battery and putting it in it's storage case. And even then, loose batteries should be charged periodically but being permanently inside a p[presumably always live mod suggests they need to be recharged fairly regularly in order to avoid an over-discharge.

And also they should always be fully charged before "retiring" or taking an extended vacation as backup.

ETA: what I'm trying to say in the above is a scenario where they could over discharge all by themselves, depending on the design details. This doesn't require user abuse unless you consider letting it sit without recharging abuse or misuse.

Good points. It occurs to me that I should check those vv3s I've put away; I charged them up before putting them away, I'm thinking maybe February-March of this year.

I mainly like the LiPo internal batteries because they seem to have much longer battery life than any of my IMR 18650s.

Andria

 

[Haadkoe]

Swap a different battery into the suspect mod. If the replacement battery dies in a short amount of time, it's the mod at fault. If it holds its charge, it's the other battery.