Question!

[LisaLisa]

Now don't laugh, I'm a work in progress and still learning.

But I need some clarification on something.

First question: Jesus told the theif on the cross "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise".

[SIZE=-1] Luke 23:42-43 (English-NIV)
42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." [/SIZE]

But, he went to hell for 3 days. So how's that?



Second question: Why did Jesus go to hell and what's the preaching in hell about? It says that some were saved by this, or is this hades that it's referring to? I"m confused.

[SIZE=-1] Matthew 12:40 (English-NIV)
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.[/SIZE]




[SIZE=-1] 1 Peter 3 (English-NIV)
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water......[/SIZE]


1 Peter 4:5-6 (New International Version)

5But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.




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[Southern Gent]

By whom: or in whom. This refers back to the "Spirit" in verse 18.
IMPORTANT: Peter does not declare those who were the object of this preaching were in a disembodied state and in prison WHEN THE PREACHING WAS DONE!
Such was the case WHEN HE WROTE! The period in which they lived in the flesh and when the preaching was done is clearly stated in the next verse.
THREE POSSIBLE WAYS TO INTERPRET THIS PASSAGE:

a. That Jesus himself actually went and preached to those in hades (not hell) during the three days his body was in the grave, and he limited his preaching to those who were disobedient during the time prior to the flood.
b. That Jesus went to hades in the spirit and preached to all the souls so there would be no place in the universe into which the message of grace had gone.
c. That Christ was actually raised from the dead by the Holy Spirit, and that the preaching was done when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah (1:11). These people did not believe Noah's inspired preaching and were in prison (hades) on the day Peter wrote this letter.

Conclusion: "c" is correct. These "spirits" were once in the flesh; they were once upon a time disobedient: the period of their disobedience was "while the ark was being prepared;" and during this period Christ preached to them. What one does through an authorized agent, he is said to do himself (1 Jn 4:1), hence Christ, in the person of Noah, preached to the antediluvians during the period in which the ark was being constructed: and these, having rejected this preaching, died in disobedience, and were under restraint in the spirit realm when Peter wrote this letter.

 

[lafl333]

this is a ecig forum not church whats the connection?

 

[Southern Gent]

this is a ecig forum not church whats the connection?

We have ecig church here and all are welcome.

 

[lafl333]

Sorry didnt realize it was a christian forum for e cig users..my bad

 

[5cardstud]

Well on the second question it says he was in the heart of the earth for 3 days not hell. I believe that is about him being in the grave or tomb for 3 days. I believe he was in heaven that very day but his body didn't rise for 3 days. That also answers your first question. Just like your following scripture says he was dead in body but alive in spirit.

 

[LisaLisa]

I'm still confused.

 

[Southern Gent]

I'm still confused.

The confusion is in the contradiction of scripture which does not exist. Jesus never went to hell/hades to preach. It is type/anti-type. The preaching was done by Noah as the voice/authority of Christ. These "spirits" were once in the flesh; they were once upon a time disobedient: the period of their disobedience was "while the ark was being prepared;" and during this period Christ preached to them. What one does through an authorized agent, he is said to do himself (1 Jn 4:1), hence Christ, in the person of Noah, preached to the antediluvians during the period in which the ark was being constructed: and these, having rejected this preaching, died in disobedience, and were under restraint in the spirit realm when Peter wrote this letter.

If an interpretation of scripture causes a contradiction then one premise or the other can not be correct. Jesus said today/paradise. The other interpretation says otherwise. The statement by Jesus is sure...that can only mean one thing. The interpretation of the later is not correct.

 

[Saintscruiser]

The saints of old were saved on the coming of the Messiah. In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, remember this was not a parable. Jesus never used names when He taught through parables. That means, that Lazarus and the rich man were real people. There was a compartment, I think as someone has already mentioned, like a circle with a line down the middle. It was called sheoul. On one side, we have the tormenting side, which I still believe exists to this day as the Lake of Fire doesn't get any residents until Jesus throws the anti-christ and the false prophet into it.....alive. So we have 2 holding tanks. One side is hades and the other side is paradise......as you can only imagine since the rich man asked for only one drop of water on his tongue. He appeared in the place of the dead to prove that the wait was over. The Messiah had come. And, while He was there, He grabbed the keys to death and the grave. "Oh grave where is thy victory; oh death where is thy sting." (Or vice versa. Only stopped for a few moments to type this out. Will be back later.) Shalom.

 

[Southern Gent]

The saints of old were saved on the coming of the Messiah. In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, remember this was not a parable. Jesus never used names when He taught through parables. That means, that Lazarus and the rich man were real people. There was a compartment, I think as someone has already mentioned, like a circle with a line down the middle. It was called sheoul. On one side, we have the tormenting side, which I still believe exists to this day as the Lake of Fire doesn't get any residents until Jesus throws the anti-christ and the false prophet into it.....alive. So we have 2 holding tanks. One side is hades and the other side is paradise......as you can only imagine since the rich man asked for only one drop of water on his tongue. He appeared in the place of the dead to prove that the wait was over. The Messiah had come. And, while He was there, He grabbed the keys to death and the grave. "Oh grave where is thy victory; oh death where is thy sting." (Or vice versa. Only stopped for a few moments to type this out. Will be back later.) Shalom.

Correct except for one thing. The compartment is "Hades". In other words Hades is comprised of the 2 compartments. The rich man was in "torment" and Lazarus was in "paradise". Sheoul is always translated "grave". The greek text nor the scripture support that Jesus went to hades. The scripture says the preaching was done when? While the ark was being prepared.

 

[LisaLisa]

Ok, so there is more then just heaven and hell? I"ve never really studied this in depth.

 

[Southern Gent]

Ok, so there is more then just heaven and hell? I"ve never really studied this in depth.

Yes, there certainly is. Jesus explained this idea to the very ones who would go out and teach/preach the gospel. They would no doubt tell the same story as Jesus.

 

[blondeambition3]

Now don't laugh, I'm a work in progress and still learning.

But I need some clarification on something.

First question: Jesus told the theif on the cross "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise".

[SIZE=-1] Luke 23:42-43 (English-NIV)
42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." [/SIZE]

But, he went to hell for 3 days. So how's that?



Second question: Why did Jesus go to hell and what's the preaching in hell about? It says that some were saved by this, or is this hades that it's referring to? I"m confused.

[SIZE=-1] Matthew 12:40 (English-NIV)
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.[/SIZE]




[SIZE=-1] 1 Peter 3 (English-NIV)
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water......[/SIZE]


1 Peter 4:5-6 (New International Version)

5But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.




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[SIZE=-1]
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This is some 'deep' stuff now!

 

[Saintscruiser]

I've only got a few minutes, but I wanted to get this posted.

The 'holding tank' for those saved on the Promise of a Messiah, are no longer where they were. The exception to this rule since he was raised from the dead before Jesus was crucified was Jesus' friend Lazarus. Carman has a song that is awesome, but anyway, Lazarus, was with all the prophets after he died, and got ripped out of there. This is before any of the saints from old knew about Jesus the Messiah's upcoming visit.....this is before Jesus went there. So here's Lazarus, then....POOF.....gone! I would have loved to of been a fly on that wall. You see, Lazarus could tell them about Jesus being his friend, listening to Him preach, coming over to their house to eat, and you KNOW this must have excited all the folks into almost having a spell. I can't help but wonder if any of those saints asked Jesus while He was there what happened to Lazarus. The sheer joy of it all. Yep, would have loved to of been a fly.....or at least had one on the payroll to come back and report to me.

 

[LisaLisa]

I'm still confused.

 

[Saintscruiser]

I'm still confused.

I will give myself another F+.

We, since we're made in God's Image, are a trinity. We are body, spirit, and soul. The body is self-explanatory. Our soul is who were are....personality...just to be brief. Our spirit is how we are able to communicate with God. See Romans 8:16

For those of us who are in the Age of Grace, when we die, our spirit and soul goes immediately to be with Jesus. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." However, our bodies stay in the grave. To those of the Old Testament, their spirit and soul was on the 'happy side' of sheoul ..... paradise and not the torture side, where the rich man was.....or hell. When Jesus was crucified, He went to the paradise side to prove that God's promise of a Messiah had come, since they were saved on the Promise of a Savior. (The Jews are still waiting today.) They lived under the Law. We live under Grace. When Moses, Noah, Abraham and others died, their souls went to the paradise side of sheoul. You have to remember that the entire Old Testament is a testament to Jesus Christ. "Let us make man in our own image." That wasn't just God the Father, as Jesus was right there too. I'll stop there to see if I've done better or worse. Hey, I'll take a C.....I'd rather have an A, but I'll take a C.

 

[blondeambition3]

I will give myself another F+.

We, since we're made in God's Image, are a trinity. We are body, spirit, and soul. The body is self-explanatory. Our soul is who were are....personality...just to be brief. Our spirit is how we are able to communicate with God. See Romans 8:16

For those of us who are in the Age of Grace, when we die, our spirit and soul goes immediately to be with Jesus. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." However, our bodies stay in the grave. To those of the Old Testament, their spirit and soul was on the 'happy side' of sheoul ..... paradise and not the torture side, where the rich man was.....or hell. When Jesus was crucified, He went to the paradise side to prove that God's promise of a Messiah had come, since they were saved on the Promise of a Savior. (The Jews are still waiting today.) They lived under the Law. We live under Grace. When Moses, Noah, Abraham and others died, their souls went to the paradise side of sheoul. You have to remember that the entire Old Testament is a testament to Jesus Christ. "Let us make man in our own image." That wasn't just God the Father, as Jesus was right there too. I'll stop there to see if I've done better or worse. Hey, I'll take a C.....I'd rather have an A, but I'll take a C.

You get an A PLUS in my Books precious Sister because I've NEVER seen a better explanation than this one in my entire Life!!!! I'm doin' like a major happy dance here!!!! WOOOO WHOOOOOO!!!! As soon as I read this I thought, 'Shut up!' .... Girl that is sooooo good!!!!!! (lol) You gotta know me, in 'real life' I'm not HALF as serious as I appear in this Forum... I got the major Miley Cyrus 'Say WHUAAATTT'? and 'Shut up' goin' all over the place!!!!! They're affectionate 'terms of endearment' with me so I hope no one ever misconstrues my meaning ...(LOL) I just adore you Linda... you are so anointed yet so humble. This is a 'deep' teaching & you nailed it so beautifully. You'll 'get' it soon if you haven't already LisaLisa!!!

 

[LisaLisa]

You get an A PLUS in my Books precious Sister because I've NEVER seen a better explanation than this one in my entire Life!!!! I'm doin' like a major happy dance here!!!! WOOOO WHOOOOOO!!!! As soon as I read this I thought, 'Shut up!' .... Girl that is sooooo good!!!!!! (lol) You gotta know me, in 'real life' I'm not HALF as serious as I appear in this Forum... I got the major Miley Cyrus 'Say WHUAAATTT'? and 'Shut up' goin' all over the place!!!!! They're affectionate 'terms of endearment' with me so I hope no one ever misconstrues my meaning ...(LOL) I just adore you Linda... you are so anointed yet so humble. This is a 'deep' teaching & you nailed it so beautifully. You'll 'get' it soon if you haven't already LisaLisa!!!

She gets an A+++++ in my book too! I also love her humility, it's a great example and one of my many "needs improvement" areas. I believe God led her here for a reason, and I"'m so blessed by it! I adore you too Blonde! You are so on fire for God it's just energizing to watch!

Everyone here is just so beautiful, so precious, so important and so loved. I love all you guys so much! Thank you!!!!

 

[blondeambition3]

lol... Thank YOU LisaLisa!!!! ♥

 

[Saintscruiser]

Goodness gracious! I'm just relieved that I explained it better. The Lord has given me an ability to be almost childlike when I stand on His Word and try to explain it to the best of my ability. All Praise Honor and Glory is God's.....not mine. I just like to keep it plain and simple. Scripture says that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is so simple a child can understand. That's where I like to keep it. But you guys??????????SHUT UP!!!!!!!