Quick Coiling Question

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I'm gonna get a rba soon! (not quite sure which one, but i'm looking!)
But, i've noticed that people when making micro/nano coils, they make
them close, and tighten them, why do they tighten them, all i see is that
they glow more towards the inside then spread outwards, whats the reason
they do this? Space? Heating? I thought a coil would short out...
 

State O' Flux

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Kanthal wire is both thermally conductive and electrically resistive. When heated, Kanthal wire (iron-chromium-aluminium) builds up an aluminum oxide insulative coating on it's outside surface that protects the individual coils from shorting, one to another. This is called alumina (Al2O3).

This is most clearly noticed when you test fire a well compressed coil... the coil initially shorts and heats unevenly. The more you fire it however, the more evenly it heats - from the center out. This is the alumina layer building up and insulating the coils surface.

For a given length and thickness of wire, the resistance does not change whether it's a 7 wrap conventional coil or a 7 wrap compressed coil. What does change is the amount of heat the compressed coil is capable of generating. Reduced to a short, concentrated segment or element, the heat generated for a given resistance/area can be greater than the sum of parts.
Consider this analogy. Ten matches, lit and separated by 1 inch per match, generate the heat of 1 match or individual heat source, per inch over a ten inch span. Now, light ten matches and place them all within one square inch... follow? ;-)

Last, although "micro" is used to define a small diameter (1.5mm or 1/16" - or less), compressed coil heating element, coil compression need not be limited to that size. In our vaping application, compression works just as well with 2, 2.5 and even 3mm coils.
 

SamNapolitanke

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Kanthal wire is both thermally conductive and electrically resistive. When heated, Kanthal wire (iron-chromium-aluminium) builds up an aluminum oxide insulative coating on it's outside surface that protects the individual coils from shorting, one to another. This is called alumina (Al2O3).

This is most clearly noticed when you test fire a well compressed coil... the coil initially shorts and heats unevenly. The more you fire it however, the more evenly it heats - from the center out. This is the alumina layer building up and insulating the coils surface.

For a given length and thickness of wire, the resistance does not change whether it's a 7 wrap conventional coil or a 7 wrap compressed coil. What does change is the amount of heat the compressed coil is capable of generating. Reduced to a short, concentrated segment or element, the heat generated for a given resistance/area can be greater than the sum of parts.
Consider this analogy. Ten matches, lit and separated by 1 inch per match, generate the heat of 1 match or individual heat source, per inch over a ten inch span. Now, light ten matches and place them all within one square inch... follow? ;-)

Last, although "micro" is used to define a small diameter (1.5mm or 1/16" - or less), compressed coil heating element, coil compression need not be limited to that size. In our vaping application, compression works just as well with 2, 2.5 and even 3mm coils.

Thanks for wirting this up. i've been having an argument with an EE friend of mine about why kanthal does not short.
 

porkchop_express

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Nice write up. This leads me to ask about the coil shorting against the sides of the coil head.

I made two microcoils last night for my mini protank 2. Both are 11 wrap, 28ga kanthal, 5/64, 1.8ohm. The first went fine, vaping on it right now. But the second for some reason kept resting against the side of the cup and shorting. With the oxidization thing going on, does this mean that eventually the coil will be insulated and stop shorting if it hits the side? About how many "fires" would it take?

Thanks.
 

State O' Flux

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Nice write up. This leads me to ask about the coil shorting against the sides of the coil head.

I made two microcoils last night for my mini protank 2. Both are 11 wrap, 28ga kanthal, 5/64, 1.8ohm. The first went fine, vaping on it right now. But the second for some reason kept resting against the side of the cup and shorting. With the oxidization thing going on, does this mean that eventually the coil will be insulated and stop shorting if it hits the side? About how many "fires" would it take?

Thanks.
Not a clue PC... I don't use glassos myself, but on the occasions that I've re-coiled Kanger heads for my "coiling-disabled" friends, I tend to build them as tornado type verticals, so no chance of shorting.
 

Dampmaskin

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In a coil, the voltage potential between each loop is not very large, maybe about 0.5 volts or less. Thus, the oxide layer is sufficient insulation. But when the positive end of the coil touches the negatively connected chassis, the voltage potential between the touching parts can be 5-6 volts or more. This can be enough to "force" the current through the oxide layer, rendering it ineffective as an insulator.
 

State O' Flux

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Ok Damp, thank you for the explanation. I figured it was something like this...a "hard short". State, I have made a verticoil but I'll have to check out the 'Nader.
If you can't find it, pop back and I'll explain it... 'cause it can take a bit of explaining.

Tugg n chase said:
Love the match comparison. Perfect explanation
Judging from your avatar, you need a "big light".
 

thatguy2

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would that be like this? --> http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-micro-coil-build-aro-evod-protank-heads.html

and yep, I was a big boy and found it all by myself (with the help of google)
Nope. The typical, popular, standard issue vertical/compressed coil... but not a tornado.
A tornado (not a big 'coil name' fan, preferring accurate descriptions) takes some describing in how to build one.
Sorry, I don't have a camera right now... but, there are a few photos of a variation, in a thread I posted in (and forgot to mention how handy they are in Kanger type heads) yesterday.
The coils in the OPs post are not compressed, but you can easily see the loop at the end, which gives you a good clue as to where the tails end up. ;-)

All the usual minor, coil wrapping details apply.
  • Take a length of wire - and fold it in half. Anneal and adjust it so the closed end is almost dead tight and the wires are flat and side by side.
  • Place a small pin or needle into the closed end - hold that end firm against your wrapping mandrel. (I have a few cross-drilled brass mandrels that I can fit steel retention dowel pins for this purpose)
  • While holding the closed or looped end of the wire with your retention pin - wrap (typically downward and/or away) from that point, making sure that the wires stay flat, tight and parallel.
  • When you have enough coils for your resistance (4 wraps = eight coils, etc)...
  • For installation in a Kanger type head, simply straighten out the tails parallel to the coil axis.
  • For a Kayfun or similar, you'd take the inner wire for another half wrap (or unwrap the outer wire same), and adjust the tails to be perpendicular to the coil axis.
 

edyle

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Nice write up. This leads me to ask about the coil shorting against the sides of the coil head.

I made two microcoils last night for my mini protank 2. Both are 11 wrap, 28ga kanthal, 5/64, 1.8ohm. The first went fine, vaping on it right now. But the second for some reason kept resting against the side of the cup and shorting. With the oxidization thing going on, does this mean that eventually the coil will be insulated and stop shorting if it hits the side? About how many "fires" would it take?

Thanks.

No. The metal cap isn't going to oxidize.

On the coil itself, temporary shorts between wraps might be occuring spasmodically, with little overall effect; but with the wrong side of the coil touching the cap, a temporary short on the cap is a temporary short of the entire coil.
 
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