Quitting analogs

[Stubby]

Fair enough. But if you can avoid tobacco and its many toxins then it's not a bad idea to do so imho - even if that includes snus, snuff etc.. Just my tuppence.

Well,,, kind of,,, sort of,, but maybe not quite.

I have to say that the toxins in snus are puny compared to smoking cigarettes. In the end it may even be less then e-cigs. The jury is still out on that one. That's a bit of misinformation we can all do without.

The first thing to keep in mind is that we're all on the same side. There is no question that smoking cigarettes is by leaps and bounds the real danger. I'm not about to turn into some anti-smoking zealot, but quitting smoking has been without a doubt the best thing I've done for myself in a long time. Something I didn't think possible 4 months ago.

Now to the issue at hand.

If snus has 1% the danger of smoking, (and all the evidence points to that) and it ends up that e-cigs has 1 tenth of 1% the danger of smoking (and we don't know that for sure as of yet, but it's quite possible) ether one can easily be considered reduced harm. You really have to look at what works for an individual. That's the real deciding factor in what someone should do.

I think the mistake would be to view it as e-cigs or analogs. Not much different from the lethal "quit or die" attitude we're all fighting. The problem with that is,,, people die. I see e-cigs as another tool to help us get off or stay off cigarettes, along with a number of other products.

It could very well be that some people have a lot invested in e-cigs and have somewhat blinded themselves to other approaches. Worse yet, self-interest may show its ugly head and someone may intentionally hold back or block information on other approaches of reduced harm.

I started out as an e-cig enthusiast. It didn't quite work for me. But that led to exploring other approaches that did work. It's obviously best to keep all options open and find out what works for you.

 

[e-pipeman]

If it works for you then that's fine. Partly it depends on what you're trying to do. E-cigs are not smoking cessation devices, though many have found that they have stopped smoking when using them. Some people vape and smoke, some vape and take snus or snuff, some do all of it. As you say, it's about whatever works for you - but it also depends on what you mean by "works". If you like it that's fine - adult people make adult choices. My view is that if I can get nicotine without a large number of unhealthy byproducts then that's what I'm going to do.

 

[TropicalBob]

That was a thoroughly intelligent and reasonable post, Stubby. Congratulations. If only more people would adopt your approach, the quit rate would be even better.

P.S. When Sen. Richard Burr repeatedly posted his "continuum of risk" chart, it showed that snus, nasal snuff and dissolvables all had LESS RISK to health than e-cigarettes, which of course have less risk than cigarettes or chewing tobacco. He never gave his sources of information for that chart, but presented it as "fact" over and over as the Senate considered the Family Smoking Bill to hand over tobacco control to the FDA.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Fair enough. But if you can avoid tobacco and its many toxins then it's not a bad idea to do so imho - even if that includes snus, snuff etc.. Just my tuppence.

Yeah, I think we can all basically agree on that. I know there are some people here who firmly believe that smoking traditional cigarettes isn't a health risk, but I personally believe the evidence that they're harmful and potentially deadly. Anything that reduces risk is a good thing. The more risk that's mitigated the better. That's why the FDA's actions against PVs is so frustrating. Their mission is to reduce risk, yet they're doing everything they can to make sure risk levels stay the same.

 

[Surf Monkey]

E-cigs are not smoking cessation devices, though many have found that they have stopped smoking when using them. Some people vape and smoke, some vape and take snus or snuff, some do all of it. As you say, it's about whatever works for you - but it also depends on what you mean by "works".

Absolutely. We're getting into a semantic backwater here, though. No, PVs aren't smoking cessation devices, but the majority of people using them seem to quit smoking. What they are is nicotine replacement devices... if you use them that way. But they could be used to atomize any substance that's soluble in Propylene Glycol or Vegetable Glycerin... or no additional substance whatsoever. That's where I see a big problem with regulating them. As many others have pointed out, if these are to be considered "drug delivery devices" or "combination devices" then the FDA needs to classify espresso machines and coffee cups in the same way.

 

[Surf Monkey]

That was a thoroughly intelligent and reasonable post, Stubby. Congratulations. If only more people would adopt your approach, the quit rate would be even better.

Agreed. The critical point he made is "finding what works for [him]." Human beings are very complex machines. Each individual has unique chemistry. They react differently to inputs like nicotine. We've seen many examples of this on the board, where some people get symptoms from PV vaporing that seem to be the early signs of nicotine poisoning while others firmly believe that they don't get any nicotine out of the devices whatsoever.

The bottom line is that everyone needs to assess the level of risk they're willing to take. If they find that switching to Orbs or SNUS or the patch or Nicorette gum or what have you fits their needs and satisfies their goals, they should absolutely do that. The PV is just one of many risk reducing strategies available.

 

[lauraeleven]

I smoked my last analog last night, here it is 20 hours later and I have NOT wanted to smoke a cigarette at all....maybe too soon to call it miracle BUT that's what it feels like, after 30 years and ending up smoking more than 2 packs a day...

1. I am "allowing" myself to have an analog if I really feel the need.

2. Thanks to this forum I chose the 510 (feels like smoking) topping the
cart with some 24mg Cherry....the taste is sooooo nice.

3. Cleaned all my ashtrays and have left them in all the familiar places,
use them to set the e-cig down when needed even the car ashtray which makes a nice holder.....the fact that the e-cig is not sitting there smoking up my house and car give me delight to no end.

just a few things that are working for me right now, I'm sure I can add to these as time goes on. Yes it is one day at a time. Good luck to all.

~L~

 

[e-pipeman]

I smoked my last analog last night, here it is 20 hours later and I have NOT wanted to smoke a cigarette at all....maybe too soon to call it miracle BUT that's what it feels like, after 30 years and ending up smoking more than 2 packs a day...

1. I am "allowing" myself to have an analog if I really feel the need.

2. Thanks to this forum I chose the 510 (feels like smoking) topping the
cart with some 24mg Cherry....the taste is sooooo nice.

3. Cleaned all my ashtrays and have left them in all the familiar places,
use them to set the e-cig down when needed even the car ashtray which makes a nice holder.....the fact that the e-cig is not sitting there smoking up my house and car give me delight to no end.

just a few things that are working for me right now, I'm sure I can add to these as time goes on. Yes it is one day at a time. Good luck to all.

~L~

Definitely one day at a time - but I'm so glad that these are working for you! I'm 48 years now(old feller) and started smoking a pipe when I was twelve. I stopped smoking tobacco completely last October, and the strange thing is I don't feel any desire to smoke it again. I have a couple of plateau briar pipes that give the sweetest tobacco smoke in the world (it's often the device rather than the smokeables) but I still wouldn't go back. Why? Because I think my problem/pleasure/addiction was about nicotine and nothing else. My e-cigs have given me the opportunity to discover that.

 

[Stubby]

The bottom line is that everyone needs to assess the level of risk they're willing to take. If they find that switching to Orbs or SNUS or the patch or Nicorette gum or what have you fits their needs and satisfies their goals, they should absolutely do that. The PV is just one of many risk reducing strategies available.

The reason I tried to bring up the subject of other reduced harm products is that "The Rain Man", the original poster, sounded a whole lot like me. Faithfully buffing away on an e-cig but still unable to give up the analogs. That was followed by half dozen pages of discussion with no mention of other reduced harm products.

I do understand that this is an e-cigarette forum, but hopefully it can mature into a more inclusive approach to tobacco and reduced harm in general.

It's to bad the discussion on snus gets buried under
Health and Medical issues/Other alternatives to smoking/Smokeless tobacco. Besides visions of spittoons dancing in front of me, it's really not all that appropriate of a place to put it.

 

[e-pipeman]

The reason I tried to bring up the subject of other reduced harm products is that "The Rain Man", the original poster, sounded a whole lot like me. Faithfully buffing away on an e-cig but still unable to give up the analogs. That was followed by half dozen pages of discussion with no mention of other reduced harm products.

I do understand that this is an e-cigarette forum, but hopefully it can mature into a more inclusive approach to tobacco and reduced harm in general.

It's to bad the discussion on snus gets buried under
Health and Medical issues/Other alternatives to smoking/Smokeless tobacco. Besides visions of spittoons dancing in front of me, it's really not all that appropriate of a place to put it.

I see where you're coming from and I applaud your commitment to harm reduction re: smoking. However this really is a forum about e-cigarettes/PV devices and their use. That has to come first here imho. However there is clearly scope for a forum on harm reduction and smoking. What do you think?

 

[Antebellum]

Please excuse me for butting in, but I think that snus are a logical addition to vaping if the desire is to stop smoking and vaping alone is not doing it. I'd look at it not only as a reduced harm approach, but also specifically a way to temporarily bump up one's average nicotine level to a satisfactory point.

That said, I have a tin of Camel Frost here by me, and I've found that I can't keep it my mouth when vaping. It's a bit much, but who I am to judge for someone who needs a bit more?

Just another way to look at it, I guess.

 

[e-pipeman]

Please excuse me for butting in, but I think that snus are a logical addition to vaping if the desire is to stop smoking and vaping alone is not doing it. I'd look at it not only as a reduced harm approach, but also specifically a way to temporarily bump up one's average nicotine level to a satisfactory point.

That said, I have a tin of Camel Frost here by me, and I've found that I can't keep it my mouth when vaping. It's a bit much, but who I am to judge for someone who needs a bit more?

Just another way to look at it, I guess.

Fair enough. If the desire is to stop smoking then that's possibly a valid approach. However, e-cigs/PVs are not smoking cessation devices.

Which war are you before, by the way?

 

[TropicalBob]

I was around when Smokey Joe added the Alternatives section, and was an early contributor. I personally am thrilled that this intelligent place is off the beaten path of Obama-haters, down-with-the-FDA revolutionaries and can-I-vape-pot posters. The fewer that view here, the better in one way. Anyone sincerely interested in the entire harm reduction philosophy will find this sacred spot. We all did.