Quitting Smoking and Depression...Round 2

[ncolwell]

Hi, guys. I quit smoking over a month ago, and I had the normal bout of depression at the three week mark that hit me for about a week and then went away on its own.

Today, I'm feeling that way again, only it seems like I'm even more down than I was before. I'm vaping 18mg ejuice, and haven't so much as looked at a cigarette since March 28. Has anyone else had multiple bouts with depression after quitting before it left for good? Any help you can give me at all is appreciated. It will help just hearing someone tell me there's a light at the end of this long tunnel.

 

[pamdis]

It hit me at the 4 week mark, and by the six week mark it was so severe I was ready to return to smoking. But I found WTA e-liquid first. After a week on that, problem solved. So I can't tell you if it will go away on it's own, but I can tell you that WTA helped relieve it for me and seems so far to have kept it from returning.

 

[ncolwell]

I'm approaching the six-week mark, and I keep thinking, "I only feel this way because I'm not smoking. If I smoke, it will go away." I'm not even mourning the "loss" of cigarettes as I don't see it as a loss at all. I see it as a major win. As a secret smoker, I was all too happy to find something that got me away from smoking. I was tired of the secret thing, for sure.

When I went through this before, someone suggested WTA to me. As it turned out, I had an activity (substitute teaching) that distracted me during the worst part of it, and before long, it was over. I'm just afraid that it's back again. However, if it's just going to be a temporary thing, I'd rather not put WTA in my body if I don't have to.

Rock and a hard place...

 

[misantroll]

Depression didn't exist ten years ago, it's a new desease from psychiatrists and such. This is all in your brain, and also due to all the chemicals the cigarettes provide and the lack of them right now. But the word depression really cringes me, it doesn't even exist in my book...

 

[Rickajho]

People diagnosed with depression or who are inclined toward it can and do experience a slump when they quit smoking. You have pulled the plug on a vicious cycle of getting MAOI's from smoking, that in turns triggers the craving to smoke. The nicotine comes along for the ride and in combination with the MAOI's provides a mood lift. This is not a new discovery, and it's certainly no myth. And it's certainly not just about swapping nicotine for nicotine.

I tend to suspect in the OP's case that it isn't a Round 2 but just a continuation of the process. It hit me about two weeks after dropping a 2 PAD habit and the slump lasted about two months. You brain has a lot to get used to dropping all the chemicals it was getting from smoking, but the depression slump will pass.

Not everyone experiences this, or not to the same degree, but it is a very real experience when it does happen.

 

[NICnurse]

Depression didn't exist ten years ago, it's a new desease from psychiatrists and such. This is all in your brain, and also due to all the chemicals the cigarettes provide and the lack of them right now. But the word depression really cringes me, it doesn't even exist in my book...

I could not disagree more. I respect your opinion, but you are severely misinformed and incorrect. Depression is very real. Depression is a physical illness in which the serotonin and dopamine neurotransmitters are not able to be utilized properly or they are not available in proper amounts to be utilized by the brain. Depression has existed as a diagnosable physical and mental illness throughout history.

When a person utilizes nicotine, the pleasure and reward center of the brain (nucleus accumbens) becomes tolerant to and expects the nicotine for pleasure. Many people do not realize that they use nicotine to self medicate for anxiety and depression until they experience withdrawal from the substances in tobacco that "supercharge" the nicotine experience in the brain. While the nicotine receptors are still being activated, they are not getting the "supercharge" from the additive chemicals in traditional cigarettes. This is one of the reasons why when we are new to vaping, we still experience withdrawal.

The effects of smoking cessation can last anywhere from 48 hours to several months. There are oftentimes peaks and valleys to the withdrawal process. Withdrawal occurs even when switching from a regular strength cigarette down to a low nicotine cigarette, so it can be positively correlated that vaping functions in coordination with withdrawal in much the same fashion. We are still getting nicotine, but we are absorbing it differently and without the additives present in cigarette tobacco.

When dopamine and serotonin levels are not appropriate, depression can either be due to withdrawal or it can be an underlying pathology that was being self medicated by smoking. Some people are able to work through the withdrawal process and do not need pharmacological assistance. Others benefit from an anti-depressant to help them through the adjustment period. Most people that utilize anti-depressants for smoking cessation do so for a 3-6 month period and then we attempt to wean them off their medication. Very few remain on the anti-depressant for long term therapy.

I would recommend making an appointment with a psychiatrist or psychiatric nurse practitioner. We approach nicotine use and smoking cessation from a different angle than primary care.

 

[Sue1971]

As someone with Anxiety, I disagree the nicotine helped. Smoking actually made it worse for me. I actually feel sooo much better.

To the OP. Try going for walks, get moving, don't think about the past (smoking) look ahead and how much better you will feel.

Postive thinking, Watch some funny video's on youtube laughter is always the best medicine.

Oh on a side note, 20 years ago, some quack of a doctor tried to say I was bi-polor how wrong he was... I just had an ... for an ex husband at the time lmao

 

[Anjaffm]

@rickajho: great posting
@NICnurse: very great posting, thank you very much

Let me just add the link to a very interesting paper on smoking and depression. Smoking is often used as self-medication: http://socialecology.uci.edu/depart/research/cihs/articles/2007_NicTobRes.pdf

Nicotine itself is helpful for a large variety of cognitive and emotional disorders, as well.
However, when we vape, we get the nicotine, but not the other substances in tobacco smoke incl. the MAO Inhibitors.

Dear ncolwell, I would also recommend getting some help to tide you over this most unpleasant period.
Please remember: you still get the nicotine, and you can use it to your benefit. Like most of us do, in one way or another
It is now a matter of getting over the transition period.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you!

/edit:
@Sue1971:
Anxiety disorders and depression are not the same. Your advice may work for one. It may be very demotivating indeed for the other.

I agree with NICnurse, who gave good advice, to my mind.

Oh, and I also had an ... for an ex-husband for a while

 

[ncolwell]

Thank you all so much. You have been so informative, and what you're saying gives me some hope. I'm not sure why these depressive feelings lifted for a few weeks, but I'm going to try to make some changes to help myself feel better.

I have never had a diagnosis of depression, which leads me to believe that it's still chemicals related to smoking that are making their way out. I'll have to figure out what my next step should be.

 

[ncolwell]

Depression didn't exist ten years ago, it's a new desease from psychiatrists and such. This is all in your brain, and also due to all the chemicals the cigarettes provide and the lack of them right now. But the word depression really cringes me, it doesn't even exist in my book...

I do have to respectfully disagree with you. I have a degree in Psychology that was earned more than ten years ago, and I can assure you that depression did exist when I earned it. However, I understand some of what your saying in that I do not want to label myself as "depressed" but rather, experiencing depressive feelings/emotions. I don't want to take on the label, but at the same time, I need to deal with the reality of the situation the best way I can.

 

[Shuddy]

Hi, guys. I quit smoking over a month ago, and I had the normal bout of depression at the three week mark that hit me for about a week and then went away on its own.

Today, I'm feeling that way again, only it seems like I'm even more down than I was before. I'm vaping 18mg ejuice, and haven't so much as looked at a cigarette since March 28. Has anyone else had multiple bouts with depression after quitting before it left for good? Any help you can give me at all is appreciated. It will help just hearing someone tell me there's a light at the end of this long tunnel.

Hey buddy, I'm at about the same mark as you; 6 weeks without a cigarette. The last one I had was 8pm on a Saturday night before I went to the vape shop to check things out. I'm not sure if you have a history with depression, or if this is just a little prolonged slump related to your smoking cessation. Personally, I've lived with depression for about 17 years (despite the fact that a poster above suggested depression didn't exist 10 years ago, but we'll leave that alone), and panic attacks for about 12 years, so I have a little experience with how these things feel, and methods I use to deal with symptoms.

As a side note, depression and anxiety, while they can sometimes be crippling, can absolutely be managed, given attention and a willingness to seek advice, help, and if needed, professional guidance (as NICnurse mentioned). As someone who had previously traveled the world alone, run a business, left home at 17 to study law, and so on, my first experience with anxiety left me feeling like my life was pretty much over. I've since traveled the world again, held a management position in government, and a few years ago I made the decision to leave behind that secure job with a very nice income to move to Korea and try something new.

I mention the above simply to give you some perspective on feeling bummed out, and so that you don't feel too negative about the occasional bump in the road.

In the last few weeks I've definitely felt a little flat since giving up the cigarettes. This is a familiar feeling of depression saying hello, and makes dealing with normally difficult situations just that little bit harder. When this happens, I try to focus on areas of my life that keep me occupied and give me direction; fitness, work, positive people, etc. If there's something I've been putting off doing, or a a part of my life that I've been neglecting, I focus on those things.

Keep your life organised, go for a walk, and keep your environment positive and free of hassle.

Reward yourself: do a few things you've been wanting to, buy yourself a treat, go somewhere fresh and new, engage in your surroundings, not in your what-ifs, yesterdays, etc.

I'm in the same boat as you, so I don't know how quickly I'll adjust to the lack of cigarettes, or if my little slump is even related to quitting. I do know that giving up a friend that has kept me company for nearly 20 years is a pretty big deal. Cigarettes supported me unconditionally. They gave me a time out whenever I needed it. They calmed me, and left me with my thoughts. They occupied my hands. Add the physiological interaction and the speed with which they delivered that interaction, and it's no wonder I'm feeling some side-effects of saying goodbye, regardless of continuing my nicotine intake. Then there's the whole MAOI thing.

Anyway, that was much longer than intended, and I may have been doing a little self-reflection in there, too.

TLDR: Don't stress too much about feeling a bump in the road. Cigarettes are a major part of a smoker's life, and ditching them is bound to take a toll of some kind. Depression is nothing to stress about, but not something to ignore. If it continues to bother you, follow NICnurse's advice and have a chat with a professional. In the mean time, focus on positive things in your life, get some fresh air and enjoy your healing lungs, and reward yourself for giving up the smokes. Remember, the brain and the body it controls are freaking amazing things, and incredibly adaptable. If you're not prone to depression, I'm sure you're body is already making the necessary adjustments.

 

[ncolwell]

Thank you, Shuddy.

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[RogerWilco357]

wow I smoked for over 25 years 2 packs of new ports daily and the wife 2 packs marlboro guess we were blessed in that we quit over night and went to e-cigs friday to saturday and never looked back ..No depression or other side effects thanks to the 24mg Johnsons Creek tundra and domestic e juices...maybe your not getting enough nicotine?

 

[Mogy]

Bravo! Excellent post shuddy

 

[ncolwell]

wow I smoked for over 25 years 2 packs of new ports daily and the wife 2 packs marlboro guess we were blessed in that we quit over night and went to e-cigs friday to saturday and never looked back ..No depression or other side effects thanks to the 24mg Johnsons Creek tundra and domestic e juices...maybe your not getting enough nicotine?

Well, 18mg is the highest I've ever used. So I would think I'd have adjusted to it by now. What do you guys think?

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[Rickajho]

@Sue1971:
Anxiety disorders and depression are not the same. Your advice may work for one. It may be very demotivating indeed for the other.

Whoa - Sue has a legitimate point.

Thank you all so much. You have been so informative, and what you're saying gives me some hope. I'm not sure why these depressive feelings lifted for a few weeks, but I'm going to try to make some changes to help myself feel better.

I have never had a diagnosis of depression, which leads me to believe that it's still chemicals related to smoking that are making their way out. I'll have to figure out what my next step should be.

Look at it this way:

When you are smoking you are receiving both the stimulation effect from nicotine and a boost from the MAO Inhibitors. Not quit a happy pill, but for some people it has a significant impact on their brain chemistry and mood. I would personally describe it as being "jacked up" on smoking.

What Sue was getting at - and rightfully so - is that the last thing people with anxiety disorders need to put into their system are stimulants. Yes, you can chain smoke yourself right into a panic attack, having a body/mind system that is already geared toward over reacting to stimulation of many kinds. If anything, it has been reported here on ECF more than once by people with anxiety disorders that the frequency and severity of their panic attacks and general anxiety drops when they quit smoking, despite continuing a much lower nicotine intake than what they received from smoking.

In context of feeling symptoms of depression after quitting ,and improvements in anxiety disorders, look at it this way: Everyone has a certain "emotional base line" and for a lot of us that base line gets elevated from the stimulation from smoking. Pull smoking out of the equation and that emotional base line drops across the board. For people with anxiety problems, that base line drops into lower levels of anxiety - a good thing for them. For people with no depression or existing depression who feel a change for the worse, that base line drops into feelings of depression or worsening depression.

It can feel uncomfortable for people with the depression affect, like pulling the plug on an anti-depressant that you have been taking for years or in some cases decades. I noticed when I quit smoking and it did concern me for a while, the question of whether jumping on medication was needed. But after researching the MAOI effect from smoking I just decided to ride out the discomfort and it corrected itself. Your brain chemistry doesn't change overnight and throwing something else at it, just because we can, may not be the best approach to this. But each person has to decide if this is a problem that needs intervention right now or if they can just ride it out for a couple months to allow time for the feeling of depression to lift.

 

[FireDragon1138]

I would either go to a doctor to get antidepressants, or try WTA. WTA doesn't have that many downsides, especially if you use just enough to get you out of depression. It's got a little more addictive potential but it's nothing like smoking a cigarette and having the chemicals reach your brain in 8 seconds. Most people find if they try WTA they can continue to vape regular e-liquids as well.


I have anxiety and depression. Too much regular nicotine doesn't help my anxiety, but WTA really does help mellow me out.

 

[Sue1971]

@Sue1971:
Anxiety disorders and depression are not the same. Your advice may work for one. It may be very demotivating indeed for the other.

No They are not the same, However, Many Drs like to treat anxiety the same way as Depression, I have been all kinds of meds the dr.s would subscribe, Phycs and primary's and most of the time they were for depression. And they did not work for me. That's why I refuse to be on any meds now, (everyone is different) I know my triggers and I just deal with them now.

I've had drs tell me to quit smoking and that would reduce the anxiety attacks, Not all anxiety attacks are the same for everyone.

I was also simply suggesting to the OP some simple things to help boost someones mood. I've been there done that and have the T-shirt It's not something I want to experience again, Not every level of Depression is the same for everyone, So even taking a simple walk and getting out for some air. will do some good. Watching a funny movie, learning to laugh again, things like that.

I could go on, but I have my opinions along with everyone else. And I find when it comes to discussions about Depression it's a very touchy subject...

 

[glointhedark]

Sue1971 - I have anxiety and depression. You are right - go to the doctor and they want to put you on antidepressants. When I first talked to my doctor, all I wanted was to find out how to relieve the anxiety. I did not feel the depression was bad enough to warrant medications. We tried all different antidepressants, none of which helped the depressed feelings, and I was still anxious. Finally found something that helped the anxiety (actually a lower dosage of a medication we had tried earlier in the quest). Right now, I have a few supplements that I take when I am having trouble with anxiety, without the medication side effects.

 

[ncolwell]

Thank you Sue. I'm actually doing some more substitute teaching for the rest of this week. Maybe that will help. I'm a professional writer who works from home most days, so I don't get out as much as I'd like to. That's for sure.

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