RANT: Advice that isn't helpful. (fill your tank, grab a drink and a snack. I used every last character I could fit in a post)

[Mutescream]

Ok, here goes...

I've compared a single 18650 to stacked 18350's in my vamo V3. The stacked 18350's outperformed the 18650's in every possible way. I get better vapes at higher voltages/wattages with the 1.5 ohm atomizers and cartos I top it with (dual coils).

I'm willing to (and do) take the appropriate procautions that come along with stacking.

Now it's come to my attention that the batteries I'm using aren't the best for this... So, I asked which 18350's were the best for stacking.

Did any of the several replies answer my request? Not in any shape/way/form.

I was asked why I wanted to do this, and I responded by pointing out the performance improvement that I cited above, that apparently I am not alone in finding, and even if one were to magically produce a panasonic mega freakin high drain over 9000A handling battery, powered by ultra safe pixie dust and uncorn fart chemistry, it still wouldn't address the voltage/current regulating that my device apparently employs.

I was repetitively given links to and told to get high drain 18650's... Which, being honest would mitigate some of the run time issue (but likely not all of it) and still not address the voltage/current issue.

If I decide to get an extra of the long battery tubes (the perks of modular design), to go in full billy club mode to rock double 18650's... I'll prob be all set and maybe need to recharge once a week (hm... maybe not a bad idea, for down the road).

BTW, I do genuinely appreciate the advice on how to do this more safely... Even though all of the subsequent advice leads me to believe the intent was to make me think it would be too much of a PITA to hassle with.

The fact of the matter is that I'm not interested in simply having a longer lasting lower performance experience... I'm also not interested in a 5lb and two foot mod (at least not yet). .

So, 18650 recommendations are not really helpful. If you are genuinely concerned with my safety, based on my choices...Simply point out which 18350 is less likely to go Chernobyl on me

 

[Bunnykiller]

IMR AW rated.... your choice of manufacturers ( sony panasonic the 2 top ones I can think of)
and btw I have the 5lb 2'mod

 

[xanderxman]

AFAIK AW is not a rating but rather a manufacturer of IMR batteries.

 

[Mutescream]

Holy sweet bejeezus! You do realize that the question is now begged of how many bunnies you have killed with that, right?

On a more serious note, where can I find these AW IMR 18350's for a reasonable price?

BTW, Thank you.

 

[Baditude]

OK, I'll bite.

I was one of the posters in your other thread who responded about stacking 18350 batteries in an 18650 regulated mod. I pointed out that you were using generic batteries of unknown quality and unknown chemistry type and why that was not recommended. I also pointed out why IMR batteries would perform better in a regulated mod like you have.

You based your claim of stacking 18350 generic batteries as having better results compared to an 18650 generic battery, neither of which should be used for any comparative purposes due to unknown quality or chemistry type of the batteries. You were getting lousy performance because you were using lousy batteries.

Pretty sound advice if I do say so myself. I provided links to backup what I advised you. This isn't what you wanted to hear, so you start another thread with hopes of finding someone who will confirm your belief that stacking batteries is a wise thing to do.

You want longer battery time by stacking batteries; it doesn't work that way with batteries. You'll get more volts, but not appreciably longer battery time. You don't need more volts from the battery as your Vamo creates its higher voltage with pulse width modulation.

You'll get more mAh (longer battery time) with a protected ICR battery, but get less amps which your regulated mod needs for efficient PWM. (Protected ICR batteries will have 3 - 4 amps tops; a single 18350 IMR battery will have 6 amps; a single 18650 IMR will have 10 amps.)

Say you do use two 18350 700 mAh IMR batteries. That's 1400 mAh total. A single 18650 IMR battery has 2000 mAh. Do the math. You should get longer battery time with the single 18650 battery and have all the amps you need for your Vamo.

You can't have your cake and eat it too when it comes to batteries. It's either long battery time with less amps, or more amps with less battery time.

You seem bent on stacking batteries in your Vamo, so I'll simply offer that the best 18350 battery in existance is the AW IMR 700 mah. Be sure to mark your batteries and to alternate the order you insert them in your Vamo.

AW IMR 18350 3.7V 700mAh - Batteries

Good luck and vape safe my friend.

 

[Iffy]

...Simply point out which 18350 is less likely to go Chernobyl on me

Dead ones...

ETA: Baditude, ya a better dude than I!!!

 

[Myk]

You don't have much choice with 18350. Efest or AW, IMR's.
As far as reasonable prices, nope, can't answer that one.

I know exactly what you mean. You need more than an 18650 can do for a dual 1.5Ω, and people can't give an answer, they just lecture (most often because they don't know the answer and they're parroting the lecture).

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

Wow, holy crap!

 

[Mutescream]

Baditude, thank you. You can critique the basis of my decision. But, the fact that I had made one should have been abundantly clear.

In any event, thank you for finally providing (actually confirming what Bunnykiller had just previously stated) the answer. Especially since that 18350, when stacked gave someone else approx. 60% more run time than the 18650, in the same red wrapper.

@Myk, thanks for the moral support.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

So it's run time you're concerned over? I'm relatively new, so I'm finding it hard to understand why a 18650 can't run a 1.5 ohm dual coil well? Does it provide a lesser quality vape then stacked batteries? Or is it simply run time with a dual coil set up? I would just carry a spare battery if it's about run time. I have a friend running 1.5 ohm iClear B on his ego twists and seems okay with performance. He keeps on charging as he's using the other. Wouldn't be cheaper to buy spare 18650 to carry then two batteries to stack if it's just run time? Especially if there's a safety issue with stacked? I'm not trying to lecture at all. Just trying to understand.

 

[Myk]

So it's run time you're concerned over? I'm relatively new, so I'm finding it hard to understand why a 18650 can't run a 1.5 ohm dual coil well? Does it provide a lesser quality vape then stacked batteries? Or is it simply run time with a dual coil set up? I would just carry a spare battery if it's about run time. I have a friend running 1.5 ohm iClear B on his ego twists and seems okay with performance. He keeps on charging as he's using the other. Wouldn't be cheaper to buy spare 18650 to carry then two batteries to stack if it's just run time? Especially if there's a safety issue with stacked? I'm not trying to lecture at all. Just trying to understand.

It's voltage. With a single battery many regulated mods can't boost the voltage high enough under load.
I think I could get to the mid 4v with a single battery and a 1.5Ω dual, nowhere near enough to power two 3Ω coils. With stacking it's all buck, the most the mod can go is 6v and it shuts off duals at 6.4v.
Originally I needed my 1.5Ω dual at 5.2v but now that it's set up with ceramic and broken in I have it set to 5.6v. There is no way you can do that with a single battery.

 

[Topacka]

Pulse width modulation is the reason you're wrong. Your vamo doesn't care what battery you put in it, it'll run the same no matter what, the only things you can control with your batteries on a regulated mod is the physical size and milliamp hours that the battery has.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

So, you're looking for a mech mod plus sub ohm kind of experience with a Vamo?


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[Mutescream]

I just noticed (and read) the extensive portion of Baditude's reply that I had previously skimmed.

When you step up in volts, less current is available. When you step down in volts, more current is available.

If a device regulates by standards far below what the battery is capable of, how much benefit is the high drain going to be, if the device doesn't take its capability into consideration? The only way to increase current here, is to increase voltage (as the device was set up to be able to operate, and adjust parameters for stacking)... At least until pv manufacturers either allow us to stack in parallel or the power regluation in them becomes more advanced (and prevalent) in dynamically responding to various power sources.

 

[edyle]

Pulse width modulation is the reason you're wrong. Your vamo doesn't care what battery you put in it, it'll run the same no matter what, the only things you can control with your batteries on a regulated mod is the physical size and milliamp hours that the battery has.

There is an efficiency factor that comes into play.
The circuitry loses some power in the process of having to bump up the voltage.

Also once the battery drops below a certain threshold, the circuitry will cut off (although the battery is not 'dead'); with the stacked batteries, you're already starting at twice the voltage of a single battery, so that is going to factor in as well; with the single battery, the battery might go from 4.2 down to 3.7. With the stacked batteries, together they start at 8.4; for them to go down to 3.7 that means each has gone down to 1.85!!! The stacked batteries and being drained out more than the single batteries

 

[jwoode]

well.. I don't get it.

My Vamo came with two batteries and it works very well.. at least I thought it does. I mean I like it a lot really.. even more than my VTR I think.

After the batteries went low the first time, I made a point to remember to buy a spare set next time in my local store. When I asked the salesman for the batteries.. he asked if I wanted a big one or the two smaller ones. I did a mental coin flip and took the big one.

I don't know really.. but it seems to me that it hits colder with the one battery.. It just seemed less somehow.. it was noticeable and I didn't like it much.. I didn't change the settings at all. I usually leave it on 3.5v with a protank 3.. the Vamo says it is 2 ohm.. do I need to increase voltage?

So I thought I would just run down the new single battery till dead.. charge it up and put aside as a backup.. and go back to the old set of two. I also was planning to buy an extra set of two the next time in the store.

I shouldn't be using two?

 

[Topacka]

There is an efficiency factor that comes into play.
The circuitry loses some power in the process of having to bump up the voltage.

Also once the battery drops below a certain threshold, the circuitry will cut off (although the battery is not 'dead'); with the stacked batteries, you're already starting at twice the voltage of a single battery, so that is going to factor in as well; with the single battery, the battery might go from 4.2 down to 3.7. With the stacked batteries, together they start at 8.4; for them to go down to 3.7 that means each has gone down to 1.85!!! The stacked batteries and being drained out more than the single batteries

Which is bad. Batteries should not be drained further than 2.5v or they can be permanently damaged and not perform properly or up to spec's, causing them to be even more dangerous to stack...

 

[Mutescream]

Just for clarification, the vamo low volt cuts when the stack hits 6.6v (so about 3.3v each).

 

[Myk]

Pulse width modulation is the reason you're wrong. Your vamo doesn't care what battery you put in it, it'll run the same no matter what, the only things you can control with your batteries on a regulated mod is the physical size and milliamp hours that the battery has.

You're wrong. PWM doesn't matter. With a single battery the PWM will only vape "like" 4.Xv under load. With stacking it will vape "like" all the way to the max 6v.

So, you're looking for a mech mod plus sub ohm kind of experience with a Vamo?


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I just want to use my dual coil gennie on my Vamo. The Vamo can only go down to 1.2Ω (extra .3Ω is a hold over from trying mesh wicks with it, I may remove that at some point and go with 1.2Ω).
Even my 1Ω dual RDA doesn't get enough voltage from a mech and I plan on buying something else to stack in for it.
I have not found a sub-ohm/mech set up I like.

With the stacked batteries, together they start at 8.4; for them to go down to 3.7 that means each has gone down to 1.85!!! The stacked batteries and being drained out more than the single batteries

No they don't. It shuts off at 6.4v, or 3.2v each.


Other pertinent info;
http://www.electroniccigarettedirec...ews/safety-features-of-electronic-cigarettes/

Stacking batteries is dangerous whether you’re talking electronic cigarettes or any other device which is not built to handle them.

"or any other device which is not built to handle them"

Vamo IS built to handle them.
This is yet another ECF safety police issue that's a hold over from mechs misapplied to regulated, like people saying to use protected batteries in mods that won't work with protected batteries.

What happens when you stack? The mod shuts down before ANY boost can possibly happen. Mod limit - 6v, mod shuts down at 6.4v, it's all buck and the batteries never come close to their amp limit.
What's in your laptop battery pack? Stacked Li-Ion batteries that NEVER get tested or rotated.
What's in some RC packs? Stacks.

Now there is the possibility of batteries going out of sync and one "charging" the other at too high of a rate, which is the reason for using safe chemistry. With a little sense stacking in a regulated mod designed to be stacked in is a lot more safe than sub-ohming on a mech even with batteries that can handle a sub-ohm load.
I mark mine 1t and 1b, 2t and 2b to keep them together and rotate and check voltages before using.

 

[Mutescream]

For the the record, I'm all for spreading the info on safe practices.

However, when someone has made it absolutely clear that they intend to follow a certain path and are aware of the risks, in addition to taking what are the measures they can take to mitigate said risks... When they ask for further means to mitigate said risks and make the situation safer... It's a bit patronizing to blithely ignore their request, condescendingly attempt to force feed a path that they (the person being addressed) have made it remarkably clear they have absolutely no intention of following, and is in fact counter productive to a decision they have made...

It is a behavior that most of us experienced as smokers being patronized by non-smokers about how we should just quit cold turkey. It sucked then, and pretty much sucked here within a community of people that have in the past or currently experienced that sort of thing.