Rationalize Vaping

[Zanderist]

I recently posted in this forum, a thread about my sister telling me basically I should give up vaping else I will get cancer , and/or damage my lungs.

So now I must rationalize why I vape.



It is supposed by the ANTZ that we must ban vaping in order to prevent a new epidemic of addiction , just as smoking has been. It is in their confidence in people's fear of dying that they are winning this public disinformation war. They believe they're cause is noble and for the common good.They use the guilt of you doing or will do something wrong to your body. It is this fear they instill that they derive their power of control over your mind's freewill, your will to think freely.

Yes, in the long run, you may be causing damage to yourself, and never mind the comparison to regular cigarettes. Who would you then blame for said damage? Who holds the responsibility for the action of damage? The ANTZ will tell you it's big tobacco at it again.Big tobacco, some how made you pick up vaping, naively thinking it was a safer alternative. If it isn't so obvious to you, you only have your self to blame for any damage.

The notion of "vaping is bad for you" is preconceived, as a great many of you here already know, therefore the argument is invalid. How can this argument be invalid? Only can yourself can you actually discover it is bad, just as only you yourself could discover if you like something. You can think for yourself right? If the ANTZ came out with a poll that 99% of people believe that you will certainly develop cancer as a result of vaping, a collective trying to think for you, would you believe them? What if another poll from some other government agency came out that at least 60%, therefore a majority of people , believe the earth is flat; Would you then stay on the safe side and agree for fact that the earth is flat?

I want to keep this short, just think about how guilt is used as a weapon by the ANTZ. Remember it is tyranny of a majority from a minority of scientists, how can this be? I'm talking in terms of power, not money.














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[Bunnykiller]

as I said... ask her to provide real solid proof that vaping can do what she says it can do... if she cant provide said proof...
than rub it in her face BHUHAHahahahhahahaaaa


yes, Im vindictive in that manner... one better provide solid facts to back up ones "facts"...

 

[Forkeh]

So don't justify it. Your sister is not the boss of you.

 

[AJ Steele]

I've never gotten into this with someone in person, and in a way I'm glad about that for two reasons. The first is because I get very heated when people repeat lies to my face, and I generally like to avoid confrontation. The second is because I am much, MUCH more informed today about this than I was even a month ago, so it's possible that I would have lost any debate about this simply by virtue of lacking information. Now that I am informed about this bad science surrounding vaping and am aware of the arguments I need to make, I am much more confident.

Basically the science doesn't support the objections of the ANTZ, and that needs to be repeatedly driven home to anyone saying anything along the lines of "vaping is bad". Bust the science out on them. They likely are engaging in lunchroom politics and have no clue what they speak of. Make it glaringly obvious. Don't be a complete jerk about it, either. Let the facts stand for themselves.

 

[OlderNDirt]

So now I must rationalize why I vape.

Starting with the easiest one first and disregarding whether any adult "must rationalize" their activities to anybody, simple answer is "to keep me from smoking." If you have never smoked, that rationalization will be a bit more difficult.

I recently posted in this forum, a thread about my sister telling me basically I should give up vaping else I will get cancer , and/or damage my lungs.

Hopefully you and your sister have an open enough relationship that the two of you could sit down and have a straight forward conversation. At that time, ask for any documentation of any case of somebody diagnosed with cancer or lung disease attributed to vaping. Even if she is able to, counter that with "and how many cases of people being diagnosed with cancer or lung disease that never smoked or vaped?" Then calculate the difference, if any, of the odds of getting cancer and/or damage to your lungs with/without vaping.

And for good measure, I'll throw in the "but we don't know the long-term effects from vaping" argument. "Well, since we don't know, wouldn't it be unreasonable to only view those unknowns as negatives and disregard all possibilities of positives?"

 

[Zanderist]

I'm no longer seeing it as an argument between me and my sister. I see it as an argument between me and those type of people. I'm sorry for not pointing that out in the original post.

I think we need more of think tank going in this forum on how we are to win, and we need all vapers from all political walks of life.

I think we need more of philosophical reason to vape as opposed to just saying the game is rigged. We need to get people thinking more in terms of rights to personal choice.


I'm sorry for being late to the party if that's already been the case then.


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[MyMagicMist]

... disregarding whether any adult "must rationalize" their activities to anybody, ...

Think it is summarized well in that phrase. Why exactly does any adult human owe rationale to anyone else regarding their choice/s? Apologies for presenting the rhetorical question.

 

[MyMagicMist]

I think we need more of philosophical reason to vape as opposed to just saying the game is rigged. We need to get people thinking more in terms of rights to personal choice.

It is rather philosophical having personal choice against a clearly rigged system. You can see it as your philosophy to choose what is right for yourself, over what a corrupt system chooses as right for you. Granted, I may only suggest you can see it in such a manner. I am not going to say you are obligated to seeing it in that manner, again this defers to your own personal choice.

We all choose doing what is correct for ourselves as it is correct for ourselves. Our shared world needs to accept this basic fact as the fact it is. Not everyone chooses the same correct items/choices/actions. That does not infer condoning of evil actions. It does infer though freedom of choice. Freedom of choice I find is the ultimate power. If you choose allowing others your freedom to choose, you lose all power.

 

[VHRB2014]

LOL. I vape because I like to vape. End of story. I don`t need another`s opinion on this.

 

[AJ Steele]

Yeah, we are under no obligation to justify it to anyone, but that's a last resort position for me because it's just such a standoffish posture. That leaves the other person thinking they were right and we are just stomping our feet and being babies about the whole thing. They need to be made to understand that they are wrong, not just a little off, completely wrong.
That's why I say to bust the data out. They can't argue with science. The average person doesn't give two hoots about or even understand the philosophies surrounding liberty or freedom of choice. They want quick answers, and USA Today or Joy Behar on the View or whatever other drive-by media outlet they follow is telling them bad info. Especially if they don't smoke, they don't care anyway.
All you can do is show them the facts, and it'll probably bounce right off of them, but you might make an impression on someone watching the exchange.

 

[AJ Steele]

As far as the lack of long term dedicated studies go, you can point out that the ingredients in ejuice (pg/vg) are used in asthma inhalers and lung transplant therapies for decades. That's not exactly the same thing, but it offers an insight into how harmless this habit is.

 

[crxess]

It Looks like Smoking - No, it is Vapor
We don't know what is in them - Actually most of us do.
Those things cause Cancer - Really, when? Please link Data.
They have Carcinogens - So do Air samples, Yea I said Air - The air we breathe: WHO says air pollution is carcinogenic and urges action – scientists contend industry is hindering progress
Lungs were not made to inhale Liquids - it is an Aerosol, mist, Steam if you will
It Decreases Lung capacity - Actually in Smokers, it increases lung capacity

I could continue on, but it is pointless Preaching to the choir and the Sinner never gets it.

 

[OlderNDirt]

It has been my experience that, for the most part, attempting to change another's mind or opinion is an exercise in futility.

 

[AJ Steele]

Yes, basically.

 

[Zanderist]

The problem I have with pulling out the science card is due to new studies or can be brought to sway an opinion.

besides pulling out pro vaping science could just be seen as our sides propaganda. Well that's just your opinion man, no matter how much of a fact it may be.

I choose a philosophical approach because it may cause the arguing party to think, which might cause them some pain.

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[crxess]

besides pulling out pro vaping science could just be seen as our sides propaganda. Well that's just your opinion man, no matter how much of a fact it may be.

I choose a philosophical approach because it may cause the arguing party to think, which might cause them some pain.

Insinuation over Science?
Philosophy?

Sorry, may as well be debating which religion is correct, with an Atheist.

Fact - Smoker unable to quit by Accepted conventional means
Fact - Smoker now Vaping instead for Reduced Harm

Fact - Government does Approve Alternative treatment - When it so chooses

 

[Zanderist]

Insinuation over Science?
Philosophy?

Sorry, may as well be debating which religion is correct, with an Atheist.

Fact - Smoker unable to quit by Accepted conventional means
Fact - Smoker now Vaping instead for Reduced Harm

Fact - Government does Approve Alternative treatment - When it so chooses

Don't we reject their science for our science? For who's science is more correct and acurate that suits the purposes of opinion?


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[Alien Traveler]

Whay I would say (tested on my wife and some other people):

I vape because I do not want to smoke. I tried other means - gums, patches - but they did not help, they are worthless. Very few people quitted smoking with their help. But e-cigs really help.
E-cigarettes are relatively new thing, and they are already threatening at least two big businesses - BT and BP. Both are loosing a big number of their customers to vaping, and it means loosing billions. Add to this bunch government, which is loosing billions in sin taxes and settlement money with BT. All of them are against vaping, and they are powerful.
Yes, there are some publication that pointed on carcinogens and other bad stuff in vapor, but by whom this "science" was made? By researchers who worked for decades for BT and BP. You know of course that if you over-fry (burn) a steak or even green peas, you'll get a lot of carcinogens. The same was done by those "researchers" with e-cig juice: they burn it and they do found carcinogens in a burnt juice. But in e-cigs juice is not burned, it is boiled. Big difference. The same as in boiled meat and burnt meat.
And you know, recently the Royal College of Physicians - very respected in medical world British organization - said that vaping at least (yes, at least) 95% safer than smoking. And so I am vaping, not smoking.

 

[VHRB2014]

When their science is pretty much based on what pays the most money, yap, you pretty much reject it. Their science has been polluted with unmitigated greed for decades now, it should`nt even be called "science". The more appropriate term for it is propaganda.

Remember, this science comes from the same people who promoted smoking just a few decades ago as a remedy for all sorts of ills.

"Nothing teaches so well as practical experience".- Donald de Carl.

 

[Ongeslepen]

The problem is with non vapers is that they don't do research like some of us do. From time to time i read an article about vaping and i think at least a few of us here do that, but the non vapers just don't and i understand why, it's not their interest. At the same time they are afraid that it is going to be a new epidemic with their own kid dropping dead because of vaping. So to prevent that, they just want it banned. (better safe then sorry right?) A stupid pathetic reasoning, but it happens again and again about various subjects including vaping.

It might be in my interest to let them (the public) understand. But looking at the history of humans, i firmly believe that they will never understand. Just look at yourself and your neighbors how intolerant we sometimes are.