Reading comments on the proposed FDA Regs... You people worry me

[ClippinWings]

@ClippinWings:

I do not know you.
All I saw was your posting - which comes across as extremely arrogant.
Having seen that posting, I am pretty certain that I have no desire to know you.
Have a nice day.

Well, I'll just assume you did not understand what I was trying to say, others did, based on the the 'likes' and responses.

Maybe that's my fault for not being more clear, for that I apologize.

Let me try and explain a bit... I have an intense fear of public speaking, It's bad enough that once when i called into a radio program to try and win a contest(and won) i forgot to breath out of fear. I passed out.

That has not stopped me from testifying at city council meetings about vaping, about how I as a vaper owe my life to this wonderful technological breakthrough. It's terrifying, I feel like I'm going to die every time i step up there. I literally have to force myself to remember to breath. I do it because it is important to me. I am trying to save lives.

If there is a will there is a way, but, if you think illiterate comments that confuse nouns and verbs, count for anything with the FDA, the first post applies to you as well:

I am stunned by the number of comments by vapers that don't seem to understand the products they use, the terminology related to those products, or the proposed regulations themselves.

As I explained later in this thread, it wasn't even really about grammar... but a complete ignorance of the topic, process, or purpose of the FDA taking comments in the first place.

No one's perfect, but I would expect someone to know what they are doing, why they are doing it and maybe proof read once or twice before making a comment.

 

[-Redd-]

My experience has been that non-native English speakers, particularly from anywhere in Europe, tend to have far better command of English than about 95% of Americans.

And to Redd -- you'll have to blame "vapor" instead of "vapour" on Noah Webster, who lived about 200 yrs ago. Nothing to be done about it now. To an American, "vapor" looks the way it's pronounced, while "vapour" looks as if the emphasis should be on the 2nd syllable rather than the first -- and I think making clear which is the stressed syllable was the entire point of Mr. Webster's innovations. Ditto that with "color/colour" -- "colour" looks as if it should be pronounced "kuh-LORE".

Andria

It was a tongue in cheek comment.

 

[M Onan Batterload]

Not in this case.

There is no count of "votes" made by the FDA.

In fact all form letters are combined and addressed as one comment.

But like I said, its pretty clear that a large number of the comments came from people who didn't know that.

Numbers always matter in US politics. The numbers matter more than the actual arguments made. You think our reps listen to reason? They follow money and polls.

 

[wv2win]

Syntax, grammar and vocabulary have not been a priority in education for many years. Functional illiterates are much easier to produce rather than educated students.

This bears repeating due to it's accurate truthfulness.

I would also add that effective writing is no longer a priority in high school education.

 

[wv2win]

Dumb peoples' votes count the same as smart peoples'.

This truth is proven by the last 6 years of our government at the federal level.

 

[Anjaffm]

@ClippinWings:

I appreciate the beginning of your posting above, including your activities in favor of vaping. Well done!

But I most certainly do not appreciate the insult - or attempted insult.
1. I am from Europe. I do not have to understand the FDA process. It does not concern me.
2. Government laws, rules and regulations are deliberately written in a way that the general public does not understand them.

And I will not comment on exactly what I expect the FDA to do with all the comments in favor of vaping and in favor of putting an end to the highly profitable - though deadly - smoking gravy train. All of them, the perfect ones and the not-so-perfect ones. It is a government agency, ok?

Of course it is important to comment - even if only so those bureaucrats cannot say "we didn't know" - but do not hold your breath expecting a government agency to act for the people and to forego the prospect of raking in millions of US$ by forcing the industry to file absolutely superfluous applications for something that does not hurt a fly. - And a few comments by .. what was that ... uneducated people will not make any difference in the whole thing whatsoever.

To my mind, it is a good thing that the people commented at all. Tens of thousands of comments by all kinds of people are - to my mind - preferable to a lot of comments from the ANTZ and pharma shills and a hundred or so perfectly written pro-vaping comments by unversity professors of English Literature.

 

[Anjaffm]

Numbers always matter in US politics. The numbers matter more than the actual arguments made. You think our reps listen to reason? They follow money and polls.

Precisely!

 

[ScandaLeX]

If you knew me at all, you'd know how unintentionally hilarious your post is.

See how that works- she made a judgement of you the same as you made a judgement about the people you ridicule in your post.

 

[sonicdsl]

Cookie anyone?

 

[ClippinWings]

Numbers always matter in US politics. The numbers matter more than the actual arguments made. You think our reps listen to reason? They follow money and polls.

you think anyone at the FDA is elected?

 

[ClippinWings]

See how that works- she made a judgement of you the same as you made a judgement about the people you ridicule in your post.

I did not intend to ridicule anyone!

Did it really come across like that?!

I meant to express concern at how people's comments would be perceived and to wonder, why anyone wouldn't care enough to proof-read.

 

[ClippinWings]

cookie anyone?

lol... Love it.

This totally went off the rails.

 

[M Onan Batterload]

you think anyone at the FDA is elected?

The FDA is an independent agency dedicated to health science in the public interest. LOL.

Lolololololololololololololololol.

 

[AndriaD]

you think anyone at the FDA is elected?

That, in a nutshell, is most of the problem -- people whom Americans DID NOT elect are getting to decide policy -- and that is completely unconstitutional, which maybe some judges will see when this total crap becomes "law" -- see, they're deciding LAW -- and they were never elected to that job! Sure, whatever they decide has to go before Congress, but hey, congress is much too busy counting their ill-gotten gains to worry about points of law. The courts will probably end up being our only refuge.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

I did not intend to ridicule anyone!

Did it really come across like that?!

I meant to express concern at how people's comments would be perceived and to wonder, why anyone wouldn't care enough to proof-read.

Proof-read? Most can't be bothered to read something ONCE, nevermind twice. And even for those who do proof-read (raising hand), it's quite difficult to proof-read your own writing -- because you *know* what you meant to say, so it's very difficult to see objectively what you actually wrote -- using a word twice in a row, leaving out a word or a punctuation mark, that sort of thing. The brain can believe that it sees what you meant to say, rather than what you actually did say.

Andria

 

[navigator2011]

My experience has been that non-native English speakers, particularly from anywhere in Europe, tend to have far better command of English than about 95% of Americans.

I find statements like this to be fascinatingly offensive. I wonder why it is considered so "cool" and "in" now days to bash the American people online? While it may or may not be the case that many Americans lack a European level command of English, as far as I can tell the American people are among the most genuine, generous, and caring people on the planet. I think that 95% of Americans do not deserve the degree of negativity that I see online now days.

 

[M Onan Batterload]

That, in a nutshell, is most of the problem -- people whom Americans DID NOT elect are getting to decide policy -- and that is completely unconstitutional, which maybe some judges will see when this total crap becomes "law" -- see, they're deciding LAW -- and they were never elected to that job! Sure, whatever they decide has to go before Congress, but hey, congress is much too busy counting their ill-gotten gains to worry about points of law. The courts will probably end up being our only refuge.

Andria

[Bolds mine]

Not necessarily, according to DC2 here:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/fda-regulations/592088-8-8-14-comment-letter-fda-29-state-attorneys-general-11.html#post13884202

 

[AndriaD]

I find statements like this to be fascinatingly offensive. I wonder why it is considered so "cool" and "in" now days to bash the American people online? While it may or may not be the case that many Americans lack a European level command of English, as far as I can tell the American people are among the most genuine, generous, and caring people on the planet. I think that 95% of Americans do not deserve the degree of negativity that I see online now days.

I was commenting solely on their literacy, not anything else. The vast majority of Americans, for the most part, ARE functionally illiterate. Disliking that fact doesn't make it less true. Correcting people's grammar, syntax, spelling, and homonym choice won't fix it, it just makes them dislike the person doing the correcting, so I mostly don't bother -- but it's EVERYWHERE.

Andria

 

[navigator2011]

I was commenting solely on their literacy, not anything else. The vast majority of Americans, for the most part, ARE functionally illiterate. Disliking that fact doesn't make it less true. Correcting people's grammar, syntax, spelling, and homonym choice won't fix it, it just makes them dislike the person doing the correcting, so I mostly don't bother -- but it's EVERYWHERE.

Andria

Oh, yes, I do understand that you were commenting solely about literacy. Just to be clear, I was commenting about a broader issue of general negativity that I see directed toward the American people online. I don't want to offend you, but I feel that your comment speaks to an apparently popular notion that most Americans are uneducated fools, as compared with nearly anyone else in the world. I think this notion is unfounded at best, and is offensive at worst.

 

[skoony]

some of the grammar the OP pointed out was quite glaring to say the least. its not really modern education that is at fault either. when i was going to school during the 60's and early 70's,boys didn't take typing class. why would we? in those days when you graduated your choices where,vocational school,the military or,you just went to work for life at 3m,ford motor,whirl pool,sperry rand,american hoist or any of the active 20 or so foundries,control data ,construction and. on and on. college was for rich people or the best and brightest under privileged who could get a scholarship.there where no pell grants and,very few could get a student loan. after my tour in the service i went to the vo-tech and obtained a degree as an electronic technician. the thing with these technical skills is you have to learn to read for content not,grammatical correctness.blending the use of technical manuals and reference materials along with reading schematics and circuit descriptions trains ones mind to get to the heart of the matter and an understanding of whats in front of you. this also makes me less critical of grammatical and syntax errors as one tends to weed out what is being stated automaticly. its almost as if there is a filter that rearranges text,adds punctuation where needed and,corrects spelling right in your head. if i understand whats being said,thats good enough for me. i would also note that being at a forth year college reading level i couldn't point out an error in grammar unless it bit me. in a time when 50% of the students shouldn't even be in college dumbing down academia in general, one should not be over critical of the grammatical prowess of the population in general. its not much different than 50 years ago.

regards
mike