I was using 16-18mg a while back. Now that I only use rba's, I use ~4-5mg, with a few 12's I have that I can't rip on too much or I way over do it. rba's rock, there is no comparison. End of story. It takes time to learn them well, but i'm now very good at building Phoenix-like drippers, Penelopes and genesis'. I doubt I will ever buy another carto or dripping atomizer ever again because, why? What would be the point? They simply are a step below most of them (except HH.357's and Cisco 306's and similar high quality disposables).