REO Springs

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WharfRat1976

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Anyone found a spring that will go lower ohm than the REO springs?

0.3 is about the max and that resistance even begins to pancake the springs.

Thinking of RGLP and 2015 Woodies.

If you are a tootie puffie don't bother responding. If you are going to tell me the mod is not designed for lower ohms and it will stress other parts of the mod you don't have to respond either.

Thank you!
 
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redeyedancer

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I think if you soldered your spring were its riveted together you could avoid the spring sag your experiencing at lower ohm . One of my customers and a friend of mine runs ,2 ohm daily and never has any sag in the spring . He soldered his spring and hasn't had a problem since and he was experiencing the sag before he tried soldering the spring. I would give it a shot if that is your cup of tea
 

WharfRat1976

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Soldered a metal and a 2015 woodie spring. Let you know how they work out.
a5e3ef56f2b3022f0b0f8bc913b4977d.jpg
 

Rule62

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Soldered a metal and a 2015 woodie spring. Let you know how they work out.
a5e3ef56f2b3022f0b0f8bc913b4977d.jpg

No offense, just commenting. But I don't see how this improves conductivity. Gold is one of the best conductors there is, and that's what the spring bases are plated with. The solder is less conductive than the gold.
 

WharfRat1976

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No offense, just commenting. But I don't see how this improves conductivity. Gold is one of the best conductors there is, and that's what the spring bases are plated with. The solder is less conductive than the gold.
I think it increases the conductivity within the spring itself since the spring is loosely riveted to the base of the spring so the solder marries the two pieces together creating better conductivity. Scraping the paint off underneath the spring base will also augment grounding of the circuit.
 
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Rule62

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I think it increases the conductivity within the spring itself since the spring is loosely riveted to the base of the spring so the solder marries the two pieces together creating better conductivity. Scraping the paint off underneath the spring base will also augment grounding of the circuit.

Could be. I dunno. I have 4 metal Grands, 3 of which, I sanded off the paint under the spring. For whatever reason, I never did the 4th. I've never metered them, to see if it makes a difference. I do occasionally take the bottom screw out, and clean out the hole, with alcohol, and apply Deoxit Gold.
It's also why I've never been a fan of Noalox, in Reos. Noalox is infused with zinc, which isn't as good of a conductor as gold.
 

rjeatkrconley

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Just to throw this out there, I have been running my reo under .3ohm since the new contacts came out. .24 to be exact. I have never had any spring problems what so ever. I can only assume it's because my reo is a TRA, no paint in the way at all. I also use deoxit from lowes on just the battery. No arcing at all. In the past, i found the arcing to cause the spring to sag. Heat transfer from the arc to the battery to the spring maybe?? If there is no arcing, spring seems to have no problem. I also ran this set up on a purple painted reo for a couple months. I didn't remove the paint from underneath the spring either. No spring sag issue either.
The plot thickens?????

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Layzee Vaper

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I work for a calibration company testing electronic instruments to prove they are accurate. One of the jobs that I do is to test crimp samples. I do a voltage drop test between the crimp and the wire, and follow that with a pull off test that checks the amount of force required to separate the crimp from the wire. If the crimp it tight enough I only see a very small voltage drop, if the crimp it too loose I see a larger volt drop. I can tell if a sample is going to fail the secondary pull off test by the results of the initial voltage drop test.

A loose or poor connection will generate heat as you get a certain amount of arcing between the two surfaces of the connection. A soldered joint makes sure there is no gap between the two connections and will stop the arcing. It looks like there are minor differences between the springs in terms of how tight the connection is between the spring and the mounting plate, at high current levels the amount of arcing will increase and generate more heat causing the spring to sag.

I would also add that it is possible that the 0.3 ohm coil that you have built may actually be of lower resistance than you think. Because of my job I have access to some high end test equipment used for measuring very low resistances. I know that it is accurate because it is calibrated to a traceable standard at the national physics lab. I had one of the cheap ohm readers commonly used, and the difference between my calibrated standard and the cheap ohm reader was significant.

A small decrease in resistance at this level will significantly increase the current passing through the spring causing the spring itself to heat up (just like your coil) and collapse.

What I am trying to say is you may actually be closer to the limit than you think. The spring sagging is a warning that something may be wrong. It might be your build at fault rather than the spring. Not because you have intentionally built too low but that the equipment used is giving false readings.

Good quality test equipment will have listed specifications in terms of accuracy. This is usually given in terms of a percentage of the reading or a percentage of scale of measurement. If you do not have this information the equipment should really be viewed as an indication only, in other words its roughly this. In general a good quality ohm reader that you can trust is going to run you hundreds of dollars not tens of dollars.
 

WharfRat1976

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I work for a calibration company testing electronic instruments to prove they are accurate. One of the jobs that I do is to test crimp samples. I do a voltage drop test between the crimp and the wire, and follow that with a pull off test that checks the amount of force required to separate the crimp from the wire. If the crimp it tight enough I only see a very small voltage drop, if the crimp it too loose I see a larger volt drop. I can tell if a sample is going to fail the secondary pull off test by the results of the initial voltage drop test.

A loose or poor connection will generate heat as you get a certain amount of arcing between the two surfaces of the connection. A soldered joint makes sure there is no gap between the two connections and will stop the arcing. It looks like there are minor differences between the springs in terms of how tight the connection is between the spring and the mounting plate, at high current levels the amount of arcing will increase and generate more heat causing the spring to sag.

I would also add that it is possible that the 0.3 ohm coil that you have built may actually be of lower resistance than you think. Because of my job I have access to some high end test equipment used for measuring very low resistances. I know that it is accurate because it is calibrated to a traceable standard at the national physics lab. I had one of the cheap ohm readers commonly used, and the difference between my calibrated standard and the cheap ohm reader was significant.

A small decrease in resistance at this level will significantly increase the current passing through the spring causing the spring itself to heat up (just like your coil) and collapse.

What I am trying to say is you may actually be closer to the limit than you think. The spring sagging is a warning that something may be wrong. It might be your build at fault rather than the spring. Not because you have intentionally built too low but that the equipment used is giving false readings.

Good quality test equipment will have listed specifications in terms of accuracy. This is usually given in terms of a percentage of the reading or a percentage of scale of measurement. If you do not have this information the equipment should really be viewed as an indication only, in other words its roughly this. In general a good quality ohm reader that you can trust is going to run you hundreds of dollars not tens of dollars.
For sure. The KLEIN meter I have is +/- .1-.2, at least. I also pre fire looking for any shorts under a lighted magnifier. A quick tap will show if my coil is shorting anywhere with the top cap in place.

I Deoxite the crap out of everything. The post about arcing causing heat makes a lot of sense causing spring sag and eventually spring pancakes.

I have a Clapton in a Hastur on it right now. The KLEIN read .2/.3 so I know I am at or near the limit now but much less heat at the spring. Practically no heat at the spring now.
 
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CMD-Ky

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Very interesting post, thanks.

I work for a calibration company testing electronic instruments to prove they are accurate. One of the jobs that I do is to test crimp samples. I do a voltage drop test between the crimp and the wire, and follow that with a pull off test that checks the amount of force required to separate the crimp from the wire. If the crimp it tight enough I only see a very small voltage drop, if the crimp it too loose I see a larger volt drop. I can tell if a sample is going to fail the secondary pull off test by the results of the initial voltage drop test.

A loose or poor connection will generate heat as you get a certain amount of arcing between the two surfaces of the connection. A soldered joint makes sure there is no gap between the two connections and will stop the arcing. It looks like there are minor differences between the springs in terms of how tight the connection is between the spring and the mounting plate, at high current levels the amount of arcing will increase and generate more heat causing the spring to sag.

I would also add that it is possible that the 0.3 ohm coil that you have built may actually be of lower resistance than you think. Because of my job I have access to some high end test equipment used for measuring very low resistances. I know that it is accurate because it is calibrated to a traceable standard at the national physics lab. I had one of the cheap ohm readers commonly used, and the difference between my calibrated standard and the cheap ohm reader was significant.

A small decrease in resistance at this level will significantly increase the current passing through the spring causing the spring itself to heat up (just like your coil) and collapse.

What I am trying to say is you may actually be closer to the limit than you think. The spring sagging is a warning that something may be wrong. It might be your build at fault rather than the spring. Not because you have intentionally built too low but that the equipment used is giving false readings.

Good quality test equipment will have listed specifications in terms of accuracy. This is usually given in terms of a percentage of the reading or a percentage of scale of measurement. If you do not have this information the equipment should really be viewed as an indication only, in other words its roughly this. In general a good quality ohm reader that you can trust is going to run you hundreds of dollars not tens of dollars.
 

Layzee Vaper

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For sure. The KLEIN meter I have is +/- .1-.2, at least. I also pre fire looking for any shorts under a lighted magnifier. A quick tap will show if my coil is shorting anywhere with the top cap in place.

I Deoxite the crap out of everything. The post about arcing causing heat makes a lot of sense causing spring sag and eventually spring pancakes.

I have a Clapton in a Hastur on it right now. The KLEIN read .2/.3 so I know I am at or near the limit now but much less heat at the spring. Practically no heat at the spring now.

Whats the model of the meter?
 

Layzee Vaper

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OK. Don't waste your money on the MM1000.

I would not recommend using either of those meters when checking a build as they are not really accurate enough.

The spec of the MM100 is +/- 0.8% of reading and importantly 4 digits.

This means that if you were showing an indicated 0.3 ohms on your meter the actual resistance could be anywhere between 0 ohms and 0.702 ohms

The spec of the MM1000 is +/- 1% and 5 digits

This means that if you were showing an indicated 0.3 ohms on this meter the actual resistance could be anywhere between 0 and 0.801 ohms.

In both cases the number of digits is more significant than the % of reading.

This means that even with the meter performing to it's specification you could have a dead short and be showing a low ohm reading

I am not saying they are bad meters just that they are not really the right tool for the job.

Luckily for you Rob has your back and has installed a hot spring. So nasty venting type events should not happen. I would continue to test fire the mod away from your face just in case.

If you use any mechanical without protection in the form of a hot spring or appropriate fuse you should not rely on these meters for your own safety.
 
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