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This is very interesting!
Dont you just love chinese contract manufacturers?
Im interested in playing around with one. Ill send you a PM.
Ive got some questions, not sure if I missed the answers or not;
1) Has the manufacturer given you any idea of how long their ceramic units last when active 24/7??
2) Can anyone draw up a diagram of the inner workings of these ceramic things (not the rest of the atomizer)? Not sure if im imagining it properly.
Id be willing to invest some money into further refinements/developments.
And to add to the discussions:
IMO the perfect vaporizer would use a cutting edge battery technology (im sure companies out there can make tiny batteries with rediculous capabilities, but its probably 5x the cost), would use a halogen/ceramic vaporization surface and inject aersolized bursts (forced through a 23 micron filter) of a specially designed delivery matrix serum. Upon contacting the surface it would have immediate vaporization and follow an airflow path through a ceramic detachable mouthpiece with a 72 micron particulate matter filter farback in the mouthpiece (away from any heat degredation) and into the mouth of the user.
The glazed ceramic mouth pieces could be interchangeable and available in all sorts of shapes/colors like whistle/round/square/oval ends, star/hexagon ends, anything you could imagine really.
No "cartridges" would exist. Instead a easily refillable E-Dobit type device that could hold several ml's of delivery matrix serum at a time could have a link point/serum-delivery-port in the outer structure of the "e-cig" (so you wouldnt even have to pop anything off to load another 10-15 puffs). The delivery device itself could be the aerosolizing unit. Imagine it like a really tiny pen, you insert the ballpoint into the tiny "port-hole" (that could be self-closing or double as an air-flow hole) in the casing (tubing) of the E-cig. You press the pen-button on the top of the delivery-device and a puff of aersolized delivery serum shoots into the E-cigarette and contacts the cool/cold ceramic surface. You then bring up to mouth, press the manual battery button take your puff and have it. After 10-15 puffs or whenever it stops producing sufficient vapor quantities for your preference, just "puff off" another aerosol spray into the "e-cig". Repeated puffing will eventually dry the surface (prolly 10-15 puffs depending how heavy you make the aerosol).
Cool? Not even close. Ontop of this, the delivery-device would have magnets (or have the metal to receive magnetic pull) inside it. When the "e-cig" and the device are both inside your pocket, they magnetically connect to eachother so that when you reach in to have some puffs, you dont even have to go pocket searching for the much smaller "delivery-device" as itll be lightly stuck on the side of the "e-cig" tube.
These delivery devices could be in all sorts of neat styles/colors for different flavors and could be easily refillable by simply twisting off the push-down-button cap and adding several ml's of solution into the device.
Im sorry but this is so perfect I want to cry.
My major issues with current devices that this resolves:
A) No wicking material. This is quiet disgusting, theres no way wicking material ISNT being decomposed by heat and its toxic molecules inhaled. Also the plastic cartidges themselves are going to leach phthalates and other nasty plasticizers and decomposition byproducts both through the solution-contact within the wicking material as well as via heating.
SOLUTION: Ceramic mouthpieces, no wicking material just a small particulate matter filter at the very end of the mouthpiece (just because your breathing in non-filtered airflow).
B) batteries that just dont last.
SOLUTION: Explore contract manufacturers and private labellers of cutting edge nano-battery technologies. Im 100% sure we can get batteries custom made that are the same dimensions as say a 510's but will last for days off a single charge. Sure theyll cost alot more, so what? Id pay $100+ just for a vaporizer unit if it met all these specs.
C) The atomizers burning out of the coil as well as the disgusting fiber material it wraps around that decomposes and is inhaled (gaaaahhhhh) makes me disgusted. I know this technology is still waaaay better than smoking, but its still been sloppily done and can be done so much better with not a whole lot of challenges.
SOLUTION: What you guys are working on right here in this thread.
D) The throwing away of used cartridges (environment anyone?), the refilling of cartridges, the dipping/dripping effort? (yup, too much effort LOL), the hastle of carrying all sorts of xxxx around?
SOLUTION: Injecting an aerosolized delivery serum (specially designed to leave as little residue as possible) onto the unheated/lukewarm surface of the ceramic hotplate. This amount could equal 10-15 puffs or whatever, this could be adjusted in the aerosolizing delivery-system or by the user by the number of "puffs" they inject.
Periodic cleaning of the ceramic hotplates surfaces inevitable residue buildup would simply involve popping off the ceramic mouthpiece and shoving a Q-tip down there. There would be no devices in the way as the aerosolizing process would occur within the second delivery/reloading device (!) and merely be introduced to the surface of the ceramic plate through the tiny delivery port hole (the end of this "delivery pen" could have a 45 degree bend in it for better contact of its aerosol to the ceramic surface when a human applies another 45 degree angle when loading it - OR - it could be straight with the spray-nossle direction pointing straight towards the ceramic surface and goes off when the delivery-probe reaches the otherside of the E-cig tube and compresses against it with the nossle in the center of the delivery probe). An asymetrical port-hole and delivery-probe 'mating' design (like a key fitting only one way into a keyhole) could be setup to ensure the spray nossle is always pointing directly at the center of the ceramic hotplates surface when inserted inside through the port-hole.
Im very interested in seeing this through. I see this thread as the start of something beautiful and I love the level of motivation ive seen thus far in you guys.
I myself have spent 9+ years studying quantum structure activity relationships in biochemistry and organic chemistry, as well as studying psychopharmacology, endocrinology, neurology, auxology, osteophysiology, biology, pharmaceutical drug discovery, pharmaceutical technology design, pharmaceutical drug delivery design, nutrition, kinesiology, and much more.
I also have extensive experience in overseas contract manufacturing of drug delivery systems and formulation complexes, as well as overseas contract synthesis of molecules. Ive contracted numerous Chinese factories to manufacture numerous kinds of things for me over the years including molecular structures I designed myself. Ive done over 300 wire transfers to Chinese manufacturers over the past 4 years alone. My girlfriends dad is also a Chinese business tycoon who owns multiple factories in Ghuangzhou, I can never remember what he manufactures but ive always wanted to do business with him and am always eyeing an opportunity. Shes like daddy's little girl and can get whatever she wants (im talking $500 dollar Gucci handbags on daddys credit card LOL).
Im very interested in comitting to such a project in everyway I can which is probably many ways. Thats knowledge, manufacturing, sourcing, testing, and financing.
I believe the technology of the ultimate personal vaporizer (I dont think E-cigs should be a term used for stigmatic reasons) should be free market (not patented) so that if one country tries to ban the technology, theres far too many entities offering it for it to ever disappear and will forever be available.
Beyond that point, I think is where individual companies should come in with their own enhancements/modifications/tweakings of the base technology. But thus far, we have no base technology that meets my satisfaction. This technology is cheap, cause its dirty and its anything but a refined piece of human engineering. But we can build it better
Dont you just love chinese contract manufacturers?
Im interested in playing around with one. Ill send you a PM.
Ive got some questions, not sure if I missed the answers or not;
1) Has the manufacturer given you any idea of how long their ceramic units last when active 24/7??
2) Can anyone draw up a diagram of the inner workings of these ceramic things (not the rest of the atomizer)? Not sure if im imagining it properly.
Id be willing to invest some money into further refinements/developments.
And to add to the discussions:
IMO the perfect vaporizer would use a cutting edge battery technology (im sure companies out there can make tiny batteries with rediculous capabilities, but its probably 5x the cost), would use a halogen/ceramic vaporization surface and inject aersolized bursts (forced through a 23 micron filter) of a specially designed delivery matrix serum. Upon contacting the surface it would have immediate vaporization and follow an airflow path through a ceramic detachable mouthpiece with a 72 micron particulate matter filter farback in the mouthpiece (away from any heat degredation) and into the mouth of the user.
The glazed ceramic mouth pieces could be interchangeable and available in all sorts of shapes/colors like whistle/round/square/oval ends, star/hexagon ends, anything you could imagine really.
No "cartridges" would exist. Instead a easily refillable E-Dobit type device that could hold several ml's of delivery matrix serum at a time could have a link point/serum-delivery-port in the outer structure of the "e-cig" (so you wouldnt even have to pop anything off to load another 10-15 puffs). The delivery device itself could be the aerosolizing unit. Imagine it like a really tiny pen, you insert the ballpoint into the tiny "port-hole" (that could be self-closing or double as an air-flow hole) in the casing (tubing) of the E-cig. You press the pen-button on the top of the delivery-device and a puff of aersolized delivery serum shoots into the E-cigarette and contacts the cool/cold ceramic surface. You then bring up to mouth, press the manual battery button take your puff and have it. After 10-15 puffs or whenever it stops producing sufficient vapor quantities for your preference, just "puff off" another aerosol spray into the "e-cig". Repeated puffing will eventually dry the surface (prolly 10-15 puffs depending how heavy you make the aerosol).
Cool? Not even close. Ontop of this, the delivery-device would have magnets (or have the metal to receive magnetic pull) inside it. When the "e-cig" and the device are both inside your pocket, they magnetically connect to eachother so that when you reach in to have some puffs, you dont even have to go pocket searching for the much smaller "delivery-device" as itll be lightly stuck on the side of the "e-cig" tube.
These delivery devices could be in all sorts of neat styles/colors for different flavors and could be easily refillable by simply twisting off the push-down-button cap and adding several ml's of solution into the device.
Im sorry but this is so perfect I want to cry.
My major issues with current devices that this resolves:
A) No wicking material. This is quiet disgusting, theres no way wicking material ISNT being decomposed by heat and its toxic molecules inhaled. Also the plastic cartidges themselves are going to leach phthalates and other nasty plasticizers and decomposition byproducts both through the solution-contact within the wicking material as well as via heating.
SOLUTION: Ceramic mouthpieces, no wicking material just a small particulate matter filter at the very end of the mouthpiece (just because your breathing in non-filtered airflow).
B) batteries that just dont last.
SOLUTION: Explore contract manufacturers and private labellers of cutting edge nano-battery technologies. Im 100% sure we can get batteries custom made that are the same dimensions as say a 510's but will last for days off a single charge. Sure theyll cost alot more, so what? Id pay $100+ just for a vaporizer unit if it met all these specs.
C) The atomizers burning out of the coil as well as the disgusting fiber material it wraps around that decomposes and is inhaled (gaaaahhhhh) makes me disgusted. I know this technology is still waaaay better than smoking, but its still been sloppily done and can be done so much better with not a whole lot of challenges.
SOLUTION: What you guys are working on right here in this thread.
D) The throwing away of used cartridges (environment anyone?), the refilling of cartridges, the dipping/dripping effort? (yup, too much effort LOL), the hastle of carrying all sorts of xxxx around?
SOLUTION: Injecting an aerosolized delivery serum (specially designed to leave as little residue as possible) onto the unheated/lukewarm surface of the ceramic hotplate. This amount could equal 10-15 puffs or whatever, this could be adjusted in the aerosolizing delivery-system or by the user by the number of "puffs" they inject.
Periodic cleaning of the ceramic hotplates surfaces inevitable residue buildup would simply involve popping off the ceramic mouthpiece and shoving a Q-tip down there. There would be no devices in the way as the aerosolizing process would occur within the second delivery/reloading device (!) and merely be introduced to the surface of the ceramic plate through the tiny delivery port hole (the end of this "delivery pen" could have a 45 degree bend in it for better contact of its aerosol to the ceramic surface when a human applies another 45 degree angle when loading it - OR - it could be straight with the spray-nossle direction pointing straight towards the ceramic surface and goes off when the delivery-probe reaches the otherside of the E-cig tube and compresses against it with the nossle in the center of the delivery probe). An asymetrical port-hole and delivery-probe 'mating' design (like a key fitting only one way into a keyhole) could be setup to ensure the spray nossle is always pointing directly at the center of the ceramic hotplates surface when inserted inside through the port-hole.
Im very interested in seeing this through. I see this thread as the start of something beautiful and I love the level of motivation ive seen thus far in you guys.
I myself have spent 9+ years studying quantum structure activity relationships in biochemistry and organic chemistry, as well as studying psychopharmacology, endocrinology, neurology, auxology, osteophysiology, biology, pharmaceutical drug discovery, pharmaceutical technology design, pharmaceutical drug delivery design, nutrition, kinesiology, and much more.
I also have extensive experience in overseas contract manufacturing of drug delivery systems and formulation complexes, as well as overseas contract synthesis of molecules. Ive contracted numerous Chinese factories to manufacture numerous kinds of things for me over the years including molecular structures I designed myself. Ive done over 300 wire transfers to Chinese manufacturers over the past 4 years alone. My girlfriends dad is also a Chinese business tycoon who owns multiple factories in Ghuangzhou, I can never remember what he manufactures but ive always wanted to do business with him and am always eyeing an opportunity. Shes like daddy's little girl and can get whatever she wants (im talking $500 dollar Gucci handbags on daddys credit card LOL).
Im very interested in comitting to such a project in everyway I can which is probably many ways. Thats knowledge, manufacturing, sourcing, testing, and financing.
I believe the technology of the ultimate personal vaporizer (I dont think E-cigs should be a term used for stigmatic reasons) should be free market (not patented) so that if one country tries to ban the technology, theres far too many entities offering it for it to ever disappear and will forever be available.
Beyond that point, I think is where individual companies should come in with their own enhancements/modifications/tweakings of the base technology. But thus far, we have no base technology that meets my satisfaction. This technology is cheap, cause its dirty and its anything but a refined piece of human engineering. But we can build it better
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Sorry about the lack of updates, but there hasn't been anything new to report. I'm still waiting on responses from the first 10 people I sent PMs to about the heaters. I expect that I will receive them either today or tomorrow, and will send them out as soon as I receive them. Hopefully, we will be able to get them into everyone's hands and start testing before the end of the week. I personally am not going to have much time this week to do any serious testing, but I will get them out to everyone the same day they arrive.
Q4mK
Q4mK
I have to say that I'm a little surprised. I've now sent over twenty PMs to everyone that expressed interest in these heaters, and have only received PayPals from three people. It appears that I may have a few extra heaters left over if someone would like more than one. I verified the ship date with the manufacturer, and he is tracing the shipment to find out the exact delivery date, but I'm expecting them to show up any day.
I chose to front the cost for the prototypes, and if I get stuck with them it's my own fault. I was concerned that there wouldn't be enough to go around, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm unemployed, and can't really afford to absorb the cost, so whoever would like one of these when they arrive, please PM me with a mailing address, and I'll PM back with my paypal account.
Again, I think it would be better if the heaters went to someone that can test with them and post results here, but at this point I need to cover my expenses on the project.
Thanks for your help guys. I still think this can be a viable replacement for the nichrome coil, we just need to get them into hands to test.
Q4mK
I chose to front the cost for the prototypes, and if I get stuck with them it's my own fault. I was concerned that there wouldn't be enough to go around, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm unemployed, and can't really afford to absorb the cost, so whoever would like one of these when they arrive, please PM me with a mailing address, and I'll PM back with my paypal account.
Again, I think it would be better if the heaters went to someone that can test with them and post results here, but at this point I need to cover my expenses on the project.
Thanks for your help guys. I still think this can be a viable replacement for the nichrome coil, we just need to get them into hands to test.
Q4mK
Shotty. Heck ill buy them all if you need bud.
Im going to reply to your PM and fish all the juicy details from you that I need.
I can do this entire thing myself if only I knew much about electricity. Ive avoided learning about that like it was the plague, ohms and currents and all that jargon has never "clicked" in my brain, ive read the water analogies 20x but it still wont click for me.
If anyone here understands all that stuff and wants to help me please PM me!! Hell if your really knowledgeable ill hire you as my electrical engineering consultant (no joke either).
Im going to reply to your PM and fish all the juicy details from you that I need.
I can do this entire thing myself if only I knew much about electricity. Ive avoided learning about that like it was the plague, ohms and currents and all that jargon has never "clicked" in my brain, ive read the water analogies 20x but it still wont click for me.
If anyone here understands all that stuff and wants to help me please PM me!! Hell if your really knowledgeable ill hire you as my electrical engineering consultant (no joke either).
Unit # 2, unless I was too slow on the draw and Nano gets first dibs on the remaining 6 heaters.Another, what happened to the first one?
It's what I get for leaving my computer for a couple of days......
First one is still a twinkle in my eye until it arrives in my PO box!
Unit # 2, unless I was too slow on the draw and Nano gets first dibs on the remaining 6 heaters.
It's what I get for leaving my computer for a couple of days......
First one is still a twinkle in my eye until it arrives in my PO box!
Ohh ok thought you blew on up already
Rick, I'm very surprised. So me, surf and I'm guessing Dan or Snarkey are the only one that paid, go figure. I'm also a little surprised that you haven't received from the supplier yet. Well I guess you will let us know when you get them in.
I am totally in. But I am not going to pay until I see that he has received the product and it is in his hands. He already knows this via a PM. I found it odd that he had not yet received it yet. Not odd because I don't trust him, odd because he should have got it by now.
I have some interesting ideas that are soon to come to light. Hopefully in the end you will see this thing pumping out juice while I vape on it (see through device.. complete redesign .. another future thread). Makes it easy to try different atomizer heater assemblies when its modular. Makes it even easier when there is a built in dripper.
I have some interesting ideas that are soon to come to light. Hopefully in the end you will see this thing pumping out juice while I vape on it (see through device.. complete redesign .. another future thread). Makes it easy to try different atomizer heater assemblies when its modular. Makes it even easier when there is a built in dripper
.
It's not really a practical, viable way.. I might be offering a long lasting atomizer in the future.. they won't be modified however to fit any current model e-cig & will come complete with their own housing, battery, etc.
I suppose you don't want to give out any information on this long lasting atomizer solution?
Just chiming in to say that this is truly an awesome concept. I love seeing fellow science/physics/electronics geeks in their element. (There's a pun in there, I think...)
I will gladly cough up the $25 to get one of these bad boys to try out. Now that I've been vaping for 2 months I'm building up a good collection of junk, and modding is my next step, now that I'm familiar with all the shortcomings.
This is exactly what I need. I'm already working on a "no-burn" cart involving #0000 austentic stainless steel wool as a filler replacement. Only time will tell if it rusts or reacts with my PG juices.
To recap: I'm extremely interested, and PM me when you want my $25.
--Spork!
I will gladly cough up the $25 to get one of these bad boys to try out. Now that I've been vaping for 2 months I'm building up a good collection of junk, and modding is my next step, now that I'm familiar with all the shortcomings.
This is exactly what I need. I'm already working on a "no-burn" cart involving #0000 austentic stainless steel wool as a filler replacement. Only time will tell if it rusts or reacts with my PG juices.
To recap: I'm extremely interested, and PM me when you want my $25.
--Spork!
Sorry I've been out of touch for a few days. I was in bed a few days with the flu ('tis the season!), and then had to take a trip to my kid's Grandparents for a long weekend. They have no internet connection, so I was less connected than normal. Yesterday, I came back to the overwhelming amount of work and email that always happens when I take any time off. My apologies, but the holiday season is like that sometimes. So here is the update....
The package still hasn't arrived, and neither myself or the guy in China was able to find out what happened to it. He put a trace on the package, and asked me if I could wait until close of business Wed for him to track it down. If he cannot locate the package by then, he has agreed to make a new batch of heaters, and send them out to me at no charge. If that happens, then we will be waiting another two weeks for the manufacturing and shipping process again, so I really hope that the package turns up.
Either way, we will eventually be getting the 10 heaters, and hopefully they will be worth the wait. I share everyone's frustration, and appreciate everyone's patience.
Thanks,
Quit4myKids
The package still hasn't arrived, and neither myself or the guy in China was able to find out what happened to it. He put a trace on the package, and asked me if I could wait until close of business Wed for him to track it down. If he cannot locate the package by then, he has agreed to make a new batch of heaters, and send them out to me at no charge. If that happens, then we will be waiting another two weeks for the manufacturing and shipping process again, so I really hope that the package turns up.
Either way, we will eventually be getting the 10 heaters, and hopefully they will be worth the wait. I share everyone's frustration, and appreciate everyone's patience.
Thanks,
Quit4myKids
Hey Sh#$ happens, you can not control the weather or the shipping process, so we are here and watching for updates. Time is a commondity we all have until the sudden stop at the end. PM me if you dont have all the heaters claimed. I can fund the ones not claimed.
BTW check this out:
http://www.artclayworld.com/Tips-TechSheets/FiringACSongasstove.pdf
Looks like I am going to be firing my own ceramic pieces for the holder of the heater
Dan
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Hey Sh#$ happens, you can not control the weather or the shipping process, so we are here and watching for updates. Time is a commondity we all have until the sudden stop at the end. PM me if you dont have all the heaters claimed. I can fund the ones not claimed.
BTW check this out:
http://www.artclayworld.com/Tips-TechSheets/FiringACSongasstove.pdf
Looks like I am going to be firing my own ceramic pieces for the holder of the heater
Dan
No need Dan. Just buy a bag of ceramic or porcelain wire nuts. Get a dremel tool and carbide or diamond drill bits.
Later.
This stuff sounds cool but check the MSDS sheet - it discusses irritation of upper respiratory tissues. It doesn't mean it wouldn't be suitable once it was fired, but it's worth checking with the manufacturer to make certain. It would be great for firing the holders the way you drew them out, complete with the air intake channels. I look forward to your reporting how it works!
Q4mK
Q4mK
Hey Sh#$ happens, you can not control the weather or the shipping process, so we are here and watching for updates. Time is a commondity we all have until the sudden stop at the end. PM me if you dont have all the heaters claimed. I can fund the ones not claimed.
BTW check this out:
http://www.artclayworld.com/Tips-TechSheets/FiringACSongasstove.pdf
Looks like I am going to be firing my own ceramic pieces for the holder of the heater
Dan
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OK, I'm a little confused after reading the bulk of this thread. Are these actual ceramic heating elements or ceramic encased nicrome heating elements? From the figures concerning the resistance change it could be assumed that this is actual ceramic type heating, however the product of gaining resistance with higher temp could be achieved by adding a themistor to the heater.
If this is an actual ceramic heater I would be interested to know what is being added to the ceramic to lower the voltage requirement. From my experimentation in my previous thread, I found that higher voltage is required to allow the electrical jump across the ceramic material.
Also, I came across this tonight. There is a company already selling a ceramic vaporizer, though I believe the product intended for vaporizing is a schedule one substance....
Ceramic Heater - Silver Surfer Vaporizer
Other thoughts:
Looking at some of the atty designs, not to say I can come up with a better idea or to flame anyone as all the designs look great, but comparing them to what has been commercially made it looks like no one is taking into consideration choked flow venturi. That is from what I can tell, the commercial atties are designed with choked flow around the heater in order to utilize the "venturi effect" to help draw fluid towards the core of the atomizer. Food for thought.
If this is an actual ceramic heater I would be interested to know what is being added to the ceramic to lower the voltage requirement. From my experimentation in my previous thread, I found that higher voltage is required to allow the electrical jump across the ceramic material.
Also, I came across this tonight. There is a company already selling a ceramic vaporizer, though I believe the product intended for vaporizing is a schedule one substance....
Ceramic Heater - Silver Surfer Vaporizer
Other thoughts:
Looking at some of the atty designs, not to say I can come up with a better idea or to flame anyone as all the designs look great, but comparing them to what has been commercially made it looks like no one is taking into consideration choked flow venturi. That is from what I can tell, the commercial atties are designed with choked flow around the heater in order to utilize the "venturi effect" to help draw fluid towards the core of the atomizer. Food for thought.
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