Research claims vape nic more addicting than cig nic

[nicnik]

So now, after all the years of claiming that tobacco companies convert freebase nicotine in cigarettes to nicotine salts to make it more addicting, now this seems to be claiming that freebase nicotine, the form found in e-liquid, is more addicting. That is, if this article is accurately reporting on the research, which is behind $35 paywall, with an abstract that doesn't give much of a clue.

An anti-vaping agenda here? I doubt it's an attempt by Pax Labs and/or it's investors to give The JUUL a boost. The JUUL uses nicotine salts.

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2015/07/22/Lower-nicotine-cigarettes-e-cigs-not-helping-smokers-quit/4651437576972/?spt=sec&or=hn

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.chemrestox.5b00107

 

[AndriaD]

So now, after all the years of claiming that tobacco companies convert freebase nicotine in cigarettes to nicotine salts to make it more addicting, now this seems to be claiming that freebase nicotine, the form found in e-liquid, is more addicting. That is, if this article is accurately reporting on the research, which is behind $35 paywall, with an abstract that doesn't give much of a clue.

An anti-vaping agenda here? I doubt it's an attempt by Pax Labs and/or it's investors to give The JUUL a boost. The JUUL uses nicotine salts.

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2015/07/22/Lower-nicotine-cigarettes-e-cigs-not-helping-smokers-quit/4651437576972/?spt=sec&or=hn

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.chemrestox.5b00107

it just shows that the ANTZ are so confused and stupid about nicotine, they think EVERYONE is, so why not throw some more mud at e-cigs.

Andria

 

[Lessifer]

From what I understood, the nicotine found in most e-liquid is the protonated form. In order to de-protonate it, and make it "freebase" you have to add something like ammonia to create a salt which makes it more bioavailable. The nicotine in cigarettes is freebase.

 

[nicnik]

From what I understood, the nicotine found in most e-liquid is the protonated form. In order to de-protonate it, and make it "freebase" you have to add something like ammonia to create a salt which makes it more bioavailable. The nicotine in cigarettes is freebase.

I think that's pretty much backward, but I can't claim to have a solid grasp of the facts.

 

[Lessifer]

Freebase nicotine - SourceWatch

 

[somdcomputerguy]

Freebase nicotine - SourceWatch

Interesting. I knew there was ammonia in cigarettes, and why it was put there. Some things I only care if it works or doesn't, but since I've embarked on this 'Vape Journey', I've become real interested in the Why's and How's of this particular thing. Thanks.

 

[AndriaD]

Interesting. I knew there was ammonia in cigarettes, and why it was put there. Some things I only care if it works or doesn't, but since I've embarked on this 'Vape Journey', I've become real interested in the Why's and How's of this particular thing. Thanks.

Indeed... I found it VERY weird that my asthma should get worse after I started vaping and then quit smoking.. but there's this stuff they put in cigarette tobacco called theobromine, similar to and in the family of theophylline, a *powerful* bronchodilator. BT *says* that the amount is not "physiologically significant," but I'd say it speaks for itself -- my asthma didn't bother me nearly as badly when I was inhaling another bronchodilator with every puff, supplementing my prescribed albuterol.

Andria

 

[Bill Godshall]

The authors and/or publishers of that study issued a press release claiming the "free-base" nicotine in e-cigs is more addictive than other nicotine (despite presenting no evidence that e-cigs have ever created nicotine dependence), and claimed that many e-liquids are labelled with the incorrect amount of nicotine.

But none of those fear mongering claims made to the news media were mentioned in the study's abstract at
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

 

[Moonbogg]

Vapers are freebasers now. Nice. "That e-cig is as bad as freebasing!"

 

[EBates]

The BS warning sirens have been going ever since I saw this post.

 

[crxess]

I'm gonna stick with this for now:

 

[Mr.Mann]

Let's say for a second that the nicotine itself is in fact more "addictive" in eliquid vs. cigarettes, that doesn't mean on its face that vaping nic vs. smoking (the acts themselves) makes vaping nic addictive than smoking tobacco. The speed at which it reaches your brain along with all the other properties native to tobacco and what else is put in it make all the difference. It's basically a silly comparison.

 

[CarolT]

Indeed... I found it VERY weird that my asthma should get worse after I started vaping and then quit smoking.. but there's this stuff they put in cigarette tobacco called theobromine, similar to and in the family of theophylline, a *powerful* bronchodilator. BT *says* that the amount is not "physiologically significant," but I'd say it speaks for itself -- my asthma didn't bother me nearly as badly when I was inhaling another bronchodilator with every puff, supplementing my prescribed albuterol.

Andria

Theobromine is in chocolate and theophylline is in tea, and both of them are weaker bronchodilators than caffeine, which is in coffee, etc. Then look how ineffective caffeine is at preventing asthma! So it's just another anti-smoker libel to pretend the tobacco companies put chocolate in all their tobacco to supposedly prevent asthma.

 

[CarolT]

I'm gonna stick with this for now:

That's just an anti-smoker smokescreen designed to prop up their malicious "addiction" libel. Which is obvious the instant the swarm of "scary chemicals" flies up. And I'm sticking with this:
"The reports of US Surgeon General on smoking are considered the authoritative statement on the scientific state of the art in this field. The previous report on nicotine addiction published in 1988 is one of the most cited references in scientific articles on smoking and often the only citation provided for specific statements of facts regarding nicotine addiction. In this commentary we review the chapter on nicotine addiction presented in the recent report of the Surgeon General. We show that the nicotine addiction model presented in this chapter, which closely resembles its 22 years old predecessor, could only be sustained by systematically ignoring all contradictory evidence. As a result, the present SG's chapter on nicotine addiction, which purportedly 'documents how nicotine compares with h..... and c...... in its hold on users and its effects on the brain,' is remarkably biased and misleading." (If the data contradict the theory, throw out the data: Nicotine addiction in the 2010 report of the Surgeon General. Frenk H, Dar R. Harm Reduct J. 2011 May 19;8:12.)
If the data contradict the theory, throw out the data: Nicotine addiction in the 2010 report of the Surgeon General

 

[VNeil]

If vape nic is even more addicting than cig nic, and if it is almost impossible to cut down nic use by cutting the nic strength in cigs, as suggested, then my own experience vaping would be impossible. I went easily and painlessly from 24mg to 3mg and now I even vape 1mg for much of the day. That would be impossible if that "study" was not just a pile of lying propaganda.

And not just me, hundreds of people here have reported the same easy decline in nic use.

 

[CarolT]

Here's the original libel from 1997, which says among other things that "The process of increasing the impact of nicotine by adding ammonia is called 'free-basing,' which is similar to the chemical process used to heighten the effects of c....... Like c......, nicotine exists in two forms -- acid and base. When ammonia is added, the nicotine converts from acid to base form. The base form can vaporize more easily from the smoke particles into the gas phase, enabling it to deposit directly on the lung tissue and immediately diffuse throughout the body."
Ammonia Added to Cigarettes Can Significantly Boost Availability of Nicotine, Says New Study

And here's a rational perspective from the pipe smokers:
"Since I’m already on the subject, acidic smoke causes nicotine to be absorbed less readily, and tobacco that is higher in sugar produces a more acidic smoke, so strains such as Virginia work well for cigarettes as the lower nicotine content and acidic smoke allow inhalation with less harshness and discomfort. It’s just as well that the mechanism works this way, as inhalation of alkaline smoke with moderate to high nicotine levels could bring about some of the less desirable effects of "vitamin N", such as light-headedness, hiccups (the "nic-hics"), rapid heart rate and/or queasiness. Likewise, the harshness of the stronger, more alkaline strains make them ideally suited to cigars and pipes which are generally not inhaled, so the higher content is absorbed more gradually through the membranes of the mouth and salivary glands."
Curing Methods and Tobacco Types | The #1 Source for Pipes and Pipe Tobacco Information

So, cigarette companies do not and did not conspire to make smokers "freebase" nicotine. And the only reason the anti-smokers concocted this garbage is to libel the cigarette companies, and to smear and defame those who use their products by likening them to c...... users.

 

[nicnik]

If the data contradict the theory, throw out the data: Nicotine addiction in the 2010 report of the Surgeon General

Thanks for that link!

 

[AndriaD]

Theobromine is in chocolate and theophylline is in tea, and both of them are weaker bronchodilators than caffeine, which is in coffee, etc. Then look how ineffective caffeine is at preventing asthma! So it's just another anti-smoker libel to pretend the tobacco companies put chocolate in all their tobacco to supposedly prevent asthma.

No, they actually put it in there to make it taste better, apparently, but as I said, the results speak very loudly -- when I was smoking cigarettes, even 2 pks a day or more, my asthma didn't bother me nearly as badly as it does now, and I am far from a chainvaper -- I upped my nic just to knock off the chain-vaping, just so I could breathe. I also have to use Advair now, and when I smoked, the only time I needed it was when I had a bad cold -- otherwise, just the rescue inhaler was all I needed.

Andria

 

[Mr.Mann]

If vape nic is even more addicting than cig nic, and if it is almost impossible to cut down nic use by cutting the nic strength in cigs, as suggested, then my own experience vaping would be impossible. I went easily and painlessly from 24mg to 3mg and now I even vape 1mg for much of the day. That would be impossible if that "study" was not just a pile of lying propaganda.

And not just me, hundreds of people here have reported the same easy decline in nic use.

I went down in nic from around 24-32 mg/mL to 3-6 mg/mL. However, I vape 4-8x more than I used to. So that works out to be wash. It's no drop when the consumption goes up. That said, who the hell cares if it's this or that when all that matters is that it's not smoking; that's the problem, not whether or not an alkaloid is habit forming --- especially when we already had the habit!

p.s. Recently I have messed around with some zero nic eliquid (I made) and it vaped fine. I could see myself doing that more and more, but I don't foresee a day when I would entirely be on zero nic. But note, I also said that about drinking coffee, and I recently kicked that (from drinking about 56 oz a day). So who knows.

 

[VNeil]

I went down in nic from around 24-32 mg/mL to 3-6 mg/mL. However, I vape 4-8x more than I used to. So that works out to be wash. It's no drop when the consumption goes up. That said, who the hell cares if it's this or that when all that matters is that it's not smoking; that's the problem, not whether or not an alkaloid is habit forming --- especially when we already had the habit!

p.s. Recently I have messed around with some zero nic eliquid (I made) and it vaped fine. I could see myself doing that more and more, but I don't foresee a day when I would entirely be on zero nic. But note, I also said that about drinking coffee, and I recently kicked that (from drinking about 56 oz a day). So who knows.

I think I vape around 15ml/day. Hard to tell since I am always vaping multiple juices and I DIY so it's not a cost issue that would make me track it. So I'm vaping about 45mg/day, and maybe less since I vape some 1mg for 1/3 of the day or so.

When I started at 24mg with an EVOD I was vaping at least a couple tanks a day, maybe more, I really don't recall the details now. But I'm thinking at least 3-5ml/day, or about 72-120mg/day so I think I have definitely cut down. More importantly, while I still always have a mod with me and at least one backup, when I have to go an hour or so without a vape I'm not as INSANE as I used to be .

I do know a lot of people like yourself are "trading numbers", such that the nic level is not going down. We are all different. And I agree, there is no sound reason to worry about breaking a nic habit we already had.