Research claims vape nic more addicting than cig nic

[AndriaD]

On the contrary, one of the things that makes their propaganda so frustrating is that they DO have it both ways. They routinely contradict themselves. Consider how they at one point they claim that smokers "titrate" their dose with exquisite precision, then turn around and claim that manufacturers "spike" cigarettes with nicotine so that smokers supposedly don't know when they're getting more of it - which if they did know would result in their smoking fewer cigarettes and therefore being exposed to fewer of the scary chemicals, etc. etc.

Which is ......ed anyway, since the only thing that ever made me "titrate" my "dose" was the damned extortionate price -- at one point I smoked one right after another, 3+ pks a day, but I couldn't afford that anymore. So I started buying 120s so I could stick to a single pk a day, by smoking each one twice -- 1st half and 2nd half.

Andria

 

[nopatch]

Actually tobacco (cigarette) doesn't have ANY free base nicotine whatsoever.Micro quantities of ammonia added (By marlboro mostly) helps to make nicotine availability bit easy.


Ecig nicotine is almost entirely free base nicotine.eliquid nicotine has more availability compared to JUUL eliquid.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

I just can't see that happening.

Me neither. I just can't comprehend that someone who vapes something with a fruity, desserty or candy flavor will 'jump the bridge' and start smoking cigarettes. I mean, they may light one up themselves or hit off someone elses, but I'm real sure they would stomp it out or give it back.

 

[skoony]

Actually tobacco (cigarette) doesn't have ANY free base nicotine whatsoever.Micro quantities of ammonia added (By marlboro mostly) helps to make nicotine availability bit easy.


Ecig nicotine is almost entirely free base nicotine.Eliquid nicotine has more availability compared to JUUL eliquid.

my understanding is most of this freebase rhetoric is dumbied up
ANTZ science designed to acquaint smoking with illegal drug use.
dispersed nicotine is dispersed nicotine either from burning or
in aerosol form.
regards
mike

 

[DC2]

my understanding is most of this freebase rhetoric is dumbied up
ANTZ science designed to acquaint smoking with illegal drug use.
dispersed nicotine is dispersed nicotine either from burning or
in aerosol form.

I was under the impression that ammonia is what turns nicotine in cigarettes into freebase form.
And that freebase form is what makes the nicotine more easily absorbed.

Interesting reading...
Freebase nicotine - SourceWatch

I was also under the impression that ammonia is a natural byproduct of the fermentation process...
Tobacco Leaf Harvesting Curing and Fermenting.

In other words, I'm not sure anyone is "adding" ammonia.

 

[nopatch]

my understanding is most of this freebase rhetoric is dumbied up
ANTZ science designed to acquaint smoking with illegal drug use.
dispersed nicotine is dispersed nicotine either from burning or
in aerosol form.
regards
mike

Yes, freebase thing is a rhetoric meant to sensationalize. The quantity of Ammonia added by cigarette manufacturers(Only a few) is so small it doesn't effect the character of nicotine one bit.

 

[skoony]

I was under the impression that ammonia is what turns nicotine in cigarettes into freebase form.
And that freebase form is what makes the nicotine more easily absorbed.

Interesting reading...
Freebase nicotine - SourceWatch

I was also under the impression that ammonia is a natural byproduct of the fermentation process...
Tobacco Leaf Harvesting Curing and Fermenting.

In other words, I'm not sure anyone is "adding" ammonia.

that's what i thought. scientific mumbo jumbo.
when you take tobacco leaf you can either chew it.
leaf = base form.
you can also burn it,converting it into a more easily
easily absorbable form.
burning = freebase.
its just taking a solid form that's ingested or absorbed
through tissue and converting it to a gaseous or aerosol
like form and inhaled.
does the 'freebase' nicotine in chewing tobacco get absorbed
faster?

regards
mike

 

[philoshop]

If those darned free-willed people would simply behave more like the rats in the research labs...

 

[CarolT]

my understanding is most of this freebase rhetoric is dumbied up
ANTZ science designed to acquaint smoking with illegal drug use.
dispersed nicotine is dispersed nicotine either from burning or
in aerosol form.
regards
mike

You are correct, it's just a defamation. Here's the original libel from 1997, which says among other things that "The process of increasing the impact of nicotine by adding ammonia is called 'free-basing,' which is similar to the chemical process used to heighten the effects of c....... Like c......, nicotine exists in two forms -- acid and base. When ammonia is added, the nicotine converts from acid to base form. The base form can vaporize more easily from the smoke particles into the gas phase, enabling it to deposit directly on the lung tissue and immediately diffuse throughout the body."
Ammonia Added to Cigarettes Can Significantly Boost Availability of Nicotine, Says New Study

And here's a rational perspective from the pipe smokers:
"Since I’m already on the subject, acidic smoke causes nicotine to be absorbed less readily, and tobacco that is higher in sugar produces a more acidic smoke, so strains such as Virginia work well for cigarettes as the lower nicotine content and acidic smoke allow inhalation with less harshness and discomfort. It’s just as well that the mechanism works this way, as inhalation of alkaline smoke with moderate to high nicotine levels could bring about some of the less desirable effects of 'vitamin N', such as light-headedness, hiccups (the 'nic-hics'), rapid heart rate and/or queasiness. Likewise, the harshness of the stronger, more alkaline strains make them ideally suited to cigars and pipes which are generally not inhaled, so the higher content is absorbed more gradually through the membranes of the mouth and salivary glands."
Curing Methods and Tobacco Types | The #1 Source for Pipes and Pipe Tobacco Information
So, cigarette companies do not and did not conspire to make smokers "freebase" nicotine. And the only reason the anti-smokers concocted this garbage is to libel the cigarette companies, and to smear and defame those who use their products by likening them to c...... users.

 

[Moonbogg]

I think the act of vaping is addictive, not just the nicotine...

I made it a full 7 days cold turkey. I was basically over the nic withdrawal hump, and again, it was total hell. The hell began after the first few hours and got more and more intense throughout that day and the second and third day weren't much better. I wanted to quit that bad.
Know what broke me at day 7? I missed the great flavor and feel of the vapor going in and out of my lungs and mouth. I missed it bad enough to rebuild my damn mod and start vaping again.
I just recently ordered my first batch of 3mg and I will try tapering off that way down to zero, and if I get that urge to vape and I can't fight it, then i'll vape with zero nic until those urges subside. I know people who have quit 20+ year smoking habbits this way so I can do it too.
Vaping is great until you want to stop and discover that you can't.

 

[AndriaD]

I made it a full 7 days cold turkey. I was basically over the nic withdrawal hump, and again, it was total hell. The hell began after the first few hours and got more and more intense throughout that day and the second and third day weren't much better. I wanted to quit that bad.
Know what broke me at day 7? I missed the great flavor and feel of the vapor going in and out of my lungs and mouth. I missed it bad enough to rebuild my damn mod and start vaping again.
I just recently ordered my first batch of 3mg and I will try tapering off that way down to zero, and if I get that urge to vape and I can't fight it, then i'll vape with zero nic until those urges subside. I know people who have quit 20+ year smoking habbits this way so I can do it too.
Vaping is great until you want to stop and discover that you can't.

At least you only went back to vaping, and not smoking -- how long has it been since you smoked?

I smoked for 39 yrs, managed to quit pretty easily thx to vaping (and WTA!), so I really don't give a rat's patootie if I vape for the rest of my life, at 9mg nic -- it won't hurt me, but smoking surely would.

Andria

 

[Moonbogg]

At least you only went back to vaping, and not smoking -- how long has it been since you smoked?

I smoked for 39 yrs, managed to quit pretty easily thx to vaping (and WTA!), so I really don't give a rat's patootie if I vape for the rest of my life, at 9mg nic -- it won't hurt me, but smoking surely would.

Andria

I didn't smoke. I chewed and couldn't stand it anymore, but the nic content was so extreme in the dip that I could NOT just stop. So I started vaping. I like vaping, but its a pain in the ... to maintain the devices and all that. I just want freedom from it all. I'm over it.
Vaping was a really fun experience, but the shine has worn off and what I'm left with is the same old addiction but in a different, and very high maintenance form.

 

[AndriaD]

I didn't smoke. I chewed and couldn't stand it anymore, but the nic content was so extreme in the dip that I could NOT just stop. So I started vaping. I like vaping, but its a pain in the ... to maintain the devices and all that. I just want freedom from it all. I'm over it.

Well if it's the nicotine, you can get that in a lot of other ways -- gum, patch, etc. But if wearing a patch doesn't help, then it's not the nicotine keeping you tethered -- it's the behavioral aspect, which is far harder to re-program than simply weaning off a substance. It takes time and effort. But mostly time; I think I've heard it takes something like 21 days to form a new habit, and that's really key to breaking a habit, too -- you must make a new habit out of doing without whatever it is, or substituting something for it. For something you've done for a very long time, it might take a good while to completely eradicate.

Andria

 

[satchvai]

I didn't smoke. I chewed and couldn't stand it anymore, but the nic content was so extreme in the dip that I could NOT just stop. So I started vaping. I like vaping, but its a pain in the ... to maintain the devices and all that. I just want freedom from it all. I'm over it.
Vaping was a really fun experience, but the shine has worn off and what I'm left with is the same old addiction but in a different, and very high maintenance form.

Have you tried Swedish Snus? Just curious as I know a lot of e-cig advocacy data is coming from Snus use in Sweden where the lowest smoking rates are in the world. Somewhere around 5% IIRC.

 

[Moonbogg]

I have tried snuss, but I don't know if its Swedish or not. Its Camel brand. Is that Swedish? I swear, I've been sober for 6 years but I can't stop using nicotine? I feel baffled.

 

[satchvai]

I have tried snuss, but I don't know if its Swedish or not. Its Camel brand. Is that Swedish? I swear, I've been sober for 6 years but I can't stop using nicotine? I feel baffled.

Everything you need to know right here: Snubie.com Snus Reviews, News, and Information.: Swedish Snus vs American "snus": Just how different are they? 8 April 2010.
TLDR Yes, big difference.

 

[nicnik]

I didn't smoke. I chewed and couldn't stand it anymore, but the nic content was so extreme in the dip that I could NOT just stop. So I started vaping. I like vaping, but its a pain in the ... to maintain the devices and all that. I just want freedom from it all. I'm over it.
Vaping was a really fun experience, but the shine has worn off and what I'm left with is the same old addiction but in a different, and very high maintenance form.

I can relate a bit to not liking to need to vape, and at this point I'm not in a hurry to quit, but think I'd like to eventually. I wonder what you mean by "all that", and if you'd be ok with it if it weren't for the maintenance. At this point, except for some unecessary experimenting, my vaping is incredibly cheap with very little maintenance needed. Very low wattage with enough nic for satisfaction and flavorless. Keeps wicks and coils lasting nearly forever and batteries lasting a long time, both between charges and lifetime. Plus, I go through very little juice that way, therefore, I don't have to refill so often. Nearly flavorless is a great option with the same benefits.

I know maybe none of what I said will be of much help, because my vape wouldn't be for everyone, and because you'd know best what you need, and you seem to be saying you need to quit. But it can't hurt to post it, and I might find out what "all that" is.

 

[Moonbogg]

I can relate a bit to not liking to need to vape, and at this point I'm not in a hurry to quit, but think I'd like to eventually. I wonder what you mean by "all that", and if you'd be ok with it if it weren't for the maintenance. At this point, except for some unecessary experimenting, my vaping is incredibly cheap with very little maintenance needed. Very low wattage with enough nic for satisfaction and flavorless. Keeps wicks and coils lasting nearly forever and batteries lasting a long time, both between charges and lifetime. Plus, I go through very little juice that way, therefore, I don't have to refill so often. Nearly flavorless is a great option with the same benefits.

I know maybe none of what I said will be of much help, because my vape wouldn't be for everyone, and because you'd know best what you need, and you seem to be saying you need to quit. But it can't hurt to post it, and I might find out what "all that" is.

By "all that" what I mean is cleaning the tank, dry burning the coil, rewicking and trimming, wrapping a new coil when it gets permanently gunked, making sure batteries are charged, making sure my stash of juice is adequate, making sure I take my mountain of crap with me on trips (scissors, cotton, wire, batteries and charger, screw drivers, tweezers, nail clippers, spare parts and o-rings, spare tank section incase the glass breaks, juice bottles, juice eye droppers, and backup devices, although now a days my backup device is a pack of snus because screw backup devices). Now, if I don't want to deal with all that, I get to pay $5 per coil head or some similar price that just adds to the cost of vaping. Bad coil head? There goes $5. Want a clean flavor for a new juice? There goes $5. Lose a coil head or accidentally dry burn? There goes $5. Do I have enough coil heads to last me a while? Better drop $25 to buy more, and so on and so on.
This is what I mean by "all that". Its all that pain in the ... associated with vaping.

I will add, that no sane person would do this without extreme motivation. I know I certainly wouldn't waste my damn time messing with it if not for the motivation provided by addiction to nicotine. I say that anyone who claims nicotine in vapor products is not addicting is not a person I would associate with, claim to like, or regard as honest. That's a damn bridge too far that they just crossed and I won't follow them or condone what they say. Those people are full of crap, either on purpose or by accident.

 

[AndriaD]

By "all that" what I mean is cleaning the tank, dry burning the coil, rewicking and trimming, wrapping a new coil when it gets permanently gunked, making sure batteries are charged, making sure my stash of juice is adequate, making sure I take my mountain of crap with me on trips (scissors, cotton, wire, batteries and charger, screw drivers, tweezers, nail clippers, spare parts and o-rings, spare tank section incase the glass breaks, juice bottles, juice eye droppers, and backup devices, although now a days my backup device is a pack of snus because screw backup devices). Now, if I don't want to deal with all that, I get to pay $5 per coil head or some similar price that just adds to the cost of vaping. Bad coil head? There goes $5. Want a clean flavor for a new juice? There goes $5. Lose a coil head or accidentally dry burn? There goes $5. Do I have enough coil heads to last me a while? Better drop $25 to buy more, and so on and so on.
This is what I mean by "all that". Its all that pain in the ... associated with vaping.

I will add, that no sane person would do this without extreme motivation. I know I certainly wouldn't waste my damn time messing with it if not for the motivation provided by addiction to nicotine. I say that anyone who claims nicotine in vapor products is not addicting is not a person I would associate with, claim to like, or regard as honest. That's a damn bridge too far that they just crossed and I won't follow them or condone what they say. Those people are full of crap, either on purpose or by accident.

I think it's probably like alcohol -- non-addictive (without all the other crap in tobacco) to most, but addictive to some -- most people can drink alcohol, but something like 10% of the population becomes addicted to it. You would just be one of those unfortunates who is actually addicted to nicotine. But as mentioned, you can get nicotine in much easier/lower maintenance forms -- patches don't require much fiddling, just stick on a fresh one each morning.

If you tried the patch and it didn't work, then you'd know that it's not the nicotine; but if, as you think, you truly are addicted to isolated nicotine, then the patch should work very well for you.

Andria

 

[Nick N]

My Wife struggles with letting go of cigarettes, if it were up to her to maintain vape gear she wouldn't (and doesn't). I do all the work and it still is not as simple for her as grabbing a cigarette and lighting it. I do understand your point.

At the end of the day she just likes the old familiar cigarette. There is always a reason to stick with the cigarette - dry hits, leaking, doesn't taste the same, doesn't feel the same, I forgot to bring it or charge it...