Results of my first try at DIY juice and lessons learned

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ericoahu

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Aug 30, 2012
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tl;dr I followed the advice I've seen here and elsewhere and the results of my first two mixes far exceeded my expectations.

Here is a synopsis of what I feel the most important things I had learned going into my first "experiment." There are plenty of other things I needed to know of course - how to find and use a calculator, cleanliness, safety, and other best practices. Following are areas where, for me, it took an act of willpower to actually heed the advice and guidance I'd seen during my research into DIY liquid creation.

1. Stick to one single flavor your try.

2. Use the minimum amounts. No matter how much you like the flavor. No matter what.

3. Prepare, plan, and write everything down.

Background: I have tried two lines of juices from altsmoke.com, several juices from Volcano ecig, and juices by Upstomp, Hooligan Vapes, and Flavorz by Joe. I think it works out to around twenty juices from a variety of sources I've tried, and by which I am comparing my own creation.

To my tastes, these first two I made with single flavors (I did sweeten one of them with one drop per 5ml) are wonderful. If it never got any better than these two I'd consider my initial investment well worth it and I'd have access to all of these two flavors I wanted to make. If I had purchased these two, they would be something I'd want to purchase again.

Mind you, I am not bragging, not at all - I'm stressing the value of the information I've found here.

Why I used minimum percentages of flavor
One thing I have not liked (but didn't realize it at first) in a few of the juices I've tried in the past turns out to be the intensity of the flavor. At first they tasted good. The flavors were reasonably accurate. Then I tried a few by Upstomp. The quality of the flavors in his were brilliant, not to mention the creativity, it made me set aside what was left of those other flavors. The quality of the flavors in his are fantastic, but the intensity is dialed down.

I happened across a YouTube video with an interview with Upstomp and he gave two tips for DIY juicers. The one I remember is that he said the biggest mistake new DIYers make is using too much flavor. Hmmmm. He also explained how less can actually be more. So I put that under my hat and managed to keep it there.

I found a thread in the recipes subforum here where members have compiled a list of flavors by the manufacturer I chose to go with along with recommended percentages, both by the manufacturer and members who've used the flavors.

For my first two recipes I used the minimum. If it said 2% while users have had success with 3-5% I went with 2%.

It should go without saying that it's easier to add more if necessary later while it's impossible to subtract.

Why I am glad I stuck with a single flavor
Actually, I had already learned this lesson in an entirely different context with the creation of other taste-ables unrelated to e-liquid. Essentially, its a matter of trusting the creator of the flavor to know what they're doing - to not sell something that needs augmenting by another flavor to be good. In other words I began with the assumption that the one flavor would be good by itself. I was right, both of the flavors I've tried so far are very very tasty.

I also knew that just because Flavor A is great and Flavor B is great that Flavor A+B is great. Flavor A might do horrible things to Flavor B that it doesn't do in real life. Also, and I know this is true with other things and expect it is with e-liquid flavors, aspects like complexity can be muddled if not eliminated by mixing. I know this is counterintuitive, when you add more "information" things are supposed to get more complex right? Not so much in the case of flavors. Its more like music. Listen to three songs at the same time and its not going to be an enjoyable experience.

Does this mean I'll never experiment with mixing flavors? Absolutely not. That's a major reason I wanted to try DIY. I will be experimenting with mixtures in the future but when I do, if something goes wrong, I'll know its the interaction not something wrong with the flavor.


Why organization is important
I made a point of writing down the base recipe on index cards that I took from the calculator and made notes on the amounts. I know exactly how many drops I put in. If after a week of steeping I realize I could do with even less flavoring I can judge how much to subtract down to the drop. If I tried to remember that I'm sure I'd forget.

I think this is where taking the time to be precise with measurements is important too. It makes tweaking easier. This I'm sure will be all the more important when I begin experimenting with combining flavors.

Lastly, I took my time. No, this is not rocket science, but mistaking the base for the nicotine (which for me came in the same sized and shaped bottle could result in a wasteful accident at best.

I love the old carpenter's saying, "measure twice and cut once."

All in all, this first foray into DIY was a frustration-free and profitable experience. I hope what little I've learned might help someone else.
 

cindycated

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Jul 19, 2011
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I just started too. I didn't wanna play scientist every time I have to mix, so I precombined my nic, PG and VG so that all I would have to worry about is measuring the flavoring according to the size of the bottle, and just top off with already-diluted nic base. Those bottles do look alike, and confusing one for the other could be a hard lesson. At least this way, for me, it eliminates the scary part that you have to get right.

To get close to the nic/PG/VG ratios that I wanted, I used eJuiceMeUp and played with all the variables for the total mls I wanted to end up with (430ml nic base + 78ml flavoring = 508ml), factoring in about 15% flavoring (using Capellas and I like it strong - this could be 10% of one + 5% of another). Not perfect, but well within my range, and to me a lot easier. So far so good. Haven't had any duds yet. Flavor too strong? Just throw in more base.

When I get premixed, I usually order 6mg nic in 80/20. DIYing this way, I end up with about 7.1mg in 77/23. My acceptable range is <8mg nic in >70PG, so close enough for me. If I had to mix with say, 10% flavoring, I could probably just make up that additional 5% with more PG to get the same ratios (by just calling it a flavor in eJuiceMeUp), but at least I won't have to keep messing with the nic in high concentration. This is about a 4-month supply for me, and I don't see my preferences changing anytime soon.

haha, and this is what I learned. :laugh:
 

wizard10000

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What a great first experiment, eric - ya done good and sidestepped most of the n00b mistakes I made :D

I'd offer a couple of pieces of advice if I may - it is possible to remove flavoring. I mix 25mg and keep a small bottle of unflavored joose at that strength in case I need to tone down a test batch after it's steeped for awhile. I make 5ml test batches - which also happens to be exactly how much my tank holds, so I've had pretty good luck eyeballing what's left in the tank and ratcheting down the flavor if I need to. Like you, I keep good notes and tweaking flavors like that has been reproducible so far. I've found that liquid moves pretty freely between tank and carto and I can taste the results of a change almost immediately in the tank if I roll the tank around for a few minutes :)

A bit more controversial tip (and one that tends to polarize the forum) is the difference between counting drops and using a more accurate method for measuring. I think there's value in snagging a buncha different size syringes and seeing which works better for you - your local tractor supply generally has 3,5-6, 10-12, 20 and 35cc syringes available for a couple bucks each. 0.5 or 1cc Luer slip syringes are a bit harder to come by (I mail order mine) but IMO are the bees knees for measuring flavoring. Suggest you try both methods and see which one you prefer. If you do decide to go the syringe route, using clear fingernail polish or clear packing tape on the syringe barrel will keep the numbers from rubbing off - I use the former.

Again, ya done good. Thanks for the most excellent writeup :)
 

bivie

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I'm glad that's working out for you. I'm new to DIY myself, and I have had NO success with it.
I've read everything I can find about it and watched YouTube vids, but my stuff sucks.

I was aware going in to keep the levels of flavoring down, but I must still be adding to much.
When that crossed my mind, I cut down and stuff still doesn't taste good. It's always either
too strong or has no flavor at all.

My flavorings are from Wizard Labs. My nic is premix 80/20 at 36mg. It tastes better by itself
than it does with my flavorings.

One that might be coming along is Capt. Black, but I'm not sure, yet. It's still morphing. I
also made some Marlboro and it tastes like a bottle of flowery perfume. I diluted it, put some
smoother and vinegar in and it still is very strong. It's very very very slowly coming along,
but I think I'm gonna have to dilute it again. It strong enough to about chase me outta the
house.

I made some Virginia from a recipe I got on this forum. My turned out weird. It has possibilities,
but I'm tasting something flowery, perfumey, or too grassy. Not sure yet.

I could go on with quite a few others that are just sitting in the closet steeping. I check
them every few days to a week in hopes of something good, but it's not happening.

I guess my next move is to order flavors from Capellas. I read that they are much easier
for newbies.

When I taste some of the jooses from the good vendors, it blows my mind and makes
me think I will NEVER get this right. I am the creative and artistic type, but I guess this one
thing is not my calling. :(
 

Yves

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May 23, 2012
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Great post with some sound advice for anyone starting out, thank you for taking the time to share it. I have always done DIY from the time I switched to vaping, not really a lot of choice here, as you can't buy ready made liquids they all have to be imported.

I mix every flavor I get as a single flavor, make a lot of notes over the time I vape it, I find this gives me reminders, if and when I think of combining flavors. So true, when you said things that you would think would go well together, are not always as compatible as you thought they would be, you can get some good surprizes and some very bad ones too.
 

ericoahu

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Aug 30, 2012
84
470
Oahu
I'm glad that's working out for you. I'm new to DIY myself, and I have had NO success with it.
I've read everything I can find about it and watched YouTube vids, but my stuff sucks.

I was aware going in to keep the levels of flavoring down, but I must still be adding to much.
When that crossed my mind, I cut down and stuff still doesn't taste good. It's always either
too strong or has no flavor at all.

My flavorings are from Wizard Labs. My nic is premix 80/20 at 36mg. It tastes better by itself
than it does with my flavorings.

One that might be coming along is Capt. Black, but I'm not sure, yet. It's still morphing. I
also made some Marlboro and it tastes like a bottle of flowery perfume. I diluted it, put some
smoother and vinegar in and it still is very strong. It's very very very slowly coming along,
but I think I'm gonna have to dilute it again. It strong enough to about chase me outta the
house.

I made some Virginia from a recipe I got on this forum. My turned out weird. It has possibilities,
but I'm tasting something flowery, perfumey, or too grassy. Not sure yet.

I could go on with quite a few others that are just sitting in the closet steeping. I check
them every few days to a week in hopes of something good, but it's not happening.

I guess my next move is to order flavors from Capellas. I read that they are much easier
for newbies.

When I taste some of the jooses from the good vendors, it blows my mind and makes
me think I will NEVER get this right. I am the creative and artistic type, but I guess this one
thing is not my calling. :(

Sorry to hear you are having a hard time. Looks like you are using tobacco flavors. I haven't yet. How long are you steeping before testing? Maybe start over with a single flavor and steep it for 2 weeks before testing it?

Nice thing about DIY is it really gives me more of an appreciation for the experts.
 

Hoosier

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Jan 26, 2010
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I guess my next move is to order flavors from Capellas. I read that they are much easier
for newbies.

Good idea. I'd recommend their Tangerine. If you cannot make a fairly good orange-ish juice with that alone then something else is going wrong for you than just flavor.


To the OP: Good thread lead and good thoughts that are expressed well. More is not always more cannot be repeated enough...
 

bivie

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Sorry to hear you are having a hard time. Looks like you are using tobacco flavors. I haven't yet. How long are you steeping before testing? Maybe start over with a single flavor and steep it for 2 weeks before testing it?

Yeah, many of these are tobacco flavors that have been steeping longer than two weeks. I just leave them in constant steep
and try them a coupla times a week. I make changes every now and then like diluting, adding sweetener, smoother, or whatever.

Good idea. I'd recommend their Tangerine. If you cannot make a fairly good orange-ish juice with that alone then something else is going wrong for you than just flavor.

That sounds good. I'll keep it in mind when I order. They have that special - five flavors I think it is for $19.95 - and
you get a discount if you spend over $20. Shipping is $2, so it's hard to go wrong there.
 
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