Trying this DIY thing again

[AndriaD]

I finally got some different flavors, so I'm trying this DIY thing again, hopefully with better results, due to a couple of things I've learned.

I'm not trying anything fancy this time; just one flavor per experimental ejuice. I also got a different Virginia flavor, since I found FlavorArt's so disagreeable; this one is called "Golden Virginia," by TobaccoExpress (Flavor Express?), and I can tell just from the smell of it that it's a lot more like the Virginia flavor I get from MyFreedomSmokes, none of that rotten celery smell I got from FA's.

I'm also using 100% PG, rather than complicating things by mixing in any VG; I prefer high PG juices anyway, and if I am successful with this trial, ultimately I plan to mix in some unflavored WTA which is 100% VG, so I needed the "base" juice to be 100% PG so that the VG doesn't overtake it.

My main question at this point is, how long to let a tobacco flavor steep before testing? I completely get it now, that hardly any DIY juices are going to taste too good when first mixed, and apparently this is especially true for tobacco flavors. But I'm just looking for a ballpark guide for length of time till first test.

I also mixed up an experimental 10ml of Cinnamon Redhot, this flavor by "Signature" (from ecigexpress) and I'm wondering if a) it needs steeping also, and b) if so, how long till first taste test?

I'm also about to mix up an experimental 10ml of "Apple," the flavoring by FlavorArt, and same question applies -- does it need steeping before testing, and how long? Also, from reading the reviews of FA's Apple flavor at ecigexpress, I gather that this flavor is very weak; some people have suggested 25% as a good starting point, the flavor is so weak, and I wanted to see if others around here, who may know a great deal more about this flavor and DIY in general, corroborate this 25% value.

Thx very much, all you DIY gurus!
Andria

 

[RonJS]

I'm also about to mix up an experimental 10ml of "Apple," the flavoring by FlavorArt, and same question applies -- does it need steeping before testing, and how long? Also, from reading the reviews of FA's Apple flavor at ecigexpress, I gather that this flavor is very weak; some people have suggested 25% as a good starting point, the flavor is so weak, and I wanted to see if others around here, who may know a great deal more about this flavor and DIY in general, corroborate this 25% value.

I have no experience with FlavourArt Apple, but looking at this spreadsheet...

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr..._hQ6Fu8HdEwwR2dLRUJlVjlabEN1NG1ucktuUVE&gid=0

...it shows 5.4%

If I go back in this Forum...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...avor-art-single-percentages-list-updated.html

..I see Apple at 3%.

I think if it were me, I'd start somewhere between 3-5%.



Ron

 

[Hoosier]

How long to first taste test is east. 10 seconds or however long it takes to shake and drip, whichever is less.

My experience has shown me the vast majority of my recipes, tobacco, complex, fruit, etc, don't need any steeping and are good from the moment they are mixed as they are 2 months later.
Sent by big fingers on a tiny phone via Tapatalk

 

[AndriaD]

I have no experience with FlavourArt Apple, but looking at this spreadsheet...

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr..._hQ6Fu8HdEwwR2dLRUJlVjlabEN1NG1ucktuUVE&gid=0

...it shows 5.4%

If I go back in this Forum...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...avor-art-single-percentages-list-updated.html

..I see Apple at 3%.

I think if it were me, I'd start somewhere between 3-5%.



Ron

Well, I guess I'll try that, maybe doing only a 5ml test, because that's just weird; in the reviews of this flavor at ecigexpress, those who used 5%, even 8%, said they could barely taste it at all, and one suggested 25%. Guess I'll just have to try it for myself. If I used 5%, that would at least make it easy to know how to add more later, if needed.

thx
Andria

 

[AndriaD]

How long to first taste test is east. 10 seconds or however long it takes to shake and drip, whichever is less.

My experience has shown me the vast majority of my recipes, tobacco, complex, fruit, etc, don't need any steeping and are good from the moment they are mixed as they are 2 months later.
Sent by big fingers on a tiny phone via Tapatalk

Then why is everyone so insistent about steeping, letting flavors mix together, etc? I don't get it. Are you supposed to steep, or not? And why is there such a wide disparity of opinion on this?

Andria

 

[GaryInTexas]

The only real apple flavor I have found is the FA Fuji Apple at about 6%. It has a very real apple flavor and taste good right after mixing.

 

[AndriaD]

The only real apple flavor I have found is the FA Fuji Apple at about 6%. It has a very real apple flavor and taste good right after mixing.

The one I have is just called "Apple."

Andria

 

[GaryInTexas]

I think you will find that the fuji apple is much better than their plain apple. It is really very nice. I vape it straight up.

Also I order my FA flavors from Bullcity and they come in original FA bottles. I have not ordered them from your supplier so I don't if they are re-bottled or not.

 

[AndriaD]

Well, I don't have Fuji apple right now, so it's immaterial to my question about the percentage to use. Ecigexpress does offer that flavor though, so if this one doesn't suit me, I may order it, next time I order from them. I really wanted something more tart than sweet, and this Apple flavor, from the reviews, seems to be more of a green than red apple flavor, which I thought would be more tart, more what I'm after.

I went ahead and made a 5ml experimental bottle, using 5%, so we'll see how it turns out. I suppose I'll wait a week for steeping, for all of them -- I put the date on the bottles so I wouldn't forget.

Thx
Andria

 

[dannyv45]

My main question at this point is, how long to let a tobacco flavor steep before testing? I completely get it now, that hardly any DIY juices are going to taste too good when first mixed, and apparently this is especially true for tobacco flavors. But I'm just looking for a ballpark guide for length of time till first test.

You should mix, taste to establish a baseline then steep 2 - 4 weeks tasting every week until you notice it has stopped changing and the taste is consistant with the previous weeks tasting.

 

[AndriaD]

You should mix, taste to establish a baseline then steep 2 - 4 weeks tasting every week until you notice it has stopped changing and the taste is consistant with the previous weeks tasting.

Ok, this makes sense. I didn't taste any of them yet (just mixed them today), but I'll do that tonight after dinner, when I have time to myself.

Thx!!
Andria

 

[xxJollyRogerxx]

One thing that helps is simply smelling them
If there is some funky smell in it you can bet you are going to taste that as well. Even just smelling the flavor unmixed will give you an idea of the taste. I really don't know why more people don't suggest this as well since it is proven fact we have to smell to taste our food and this is no different.
For example, I ordered Mango flavoring and as soon as i opened up the bottle I could smell that it had a strong scent of green mango. Not a ripe mango but a green mango and sure enough after a week or steeping it taste just like green (unripened mango). You can't hide that taste. People down here will eat green mangoes and some love them that way but to someone that doesn't get exposed to this may think it is just mango. This could not be farther from the truth; a green mango does not taste the same as a ripe mango. Just like a green banana doesn't taste the same as a ripe banana but you can smell the difference when you smell them.

 

[AndriaD]

One thing that helps is simply smelling them
If there is some funky smell in it you can bet you are going to taste that as well. Even just smelling the flavor unmixed will give you an idea of the taste. I really don't know why more people don't suggest this as well since it is proven fact we have to smell to taste our food and this is no different.
For example, I ordered Mango flavoring and as soon as i opened up the bottle I could smell that it had a strong scent of green mango. Not a ripe mango but a green mango and sure enough after a week or steeping it taste just like green (unripened mango). You can't hide that taste. People down here will eat green mangoes and some love them that way but to someone that doesn't get exposed to this may think it is just mango. This could not be farther from the truth; a green mango does not taste the same as a ripe mango. Just like a green banana doesn't taste the same as a ripe banana but you can smell the difference when you smell them.

Yeah I think I'd have to agree; that FlavorArt Virginia was hideous right from my first scent of it, like celery that's been forgotten in the crisper drawer for 3 or 4 months and is starting to liquefy. But the Golden Virginia I mixed up today smells a GREAT deal like the Virginia I get from MyFreedomSmokes; lightly smoky, but with a definite and unique savory scent. So I'm going to take dannyv45's suggestion and taste it tonight; just about to get my Caterpillar cleaned up and re-wicked. If it tastes anything like it smells, it might even be good to go right now, but if not, I'll let it sit for a week and try it again.

I tasted "Green Apple" from MadVapes, one of my first mailorder-juice experiments, and yeah, green bananas...

Andria

 

[Hoosier]

Then why is everyone so insistent about steeping, letting flavors mix together, etc? I don't get it. Are you supposed to steep, or not? And why is there such a wide disparity of opinion on this?

Well, if you read on the internet that all juice needed steeping and you did it without tasting/thinking and ended up with some good juice, you might just convince yourself that it was true that all juices need to steep. Since that person doesn't know that it tastes the same fresh, that "knowledge" is passed to the next.

Now combine that with some mixes do need to steep, an amazing number of people who don't know the difference between steeping and airiing-out and which does which to juice, along with those who accept what is read as fact without question, and it's amazing what can be passed on as absolute fact. I've even been called names and made fun of because I was stupid enough to point out that steeping isn't magical and isn't usually needed by folks who have convinced themselves that steeping does magic stuff that proper mixing cannot do.

I've read people who put their mixes in crock pots for long periods of time and ask here why their juice tastes so bad and when I asked what it tasted like before they cooked it, they don't know because they think that all juice needs to be steeped.

How do you know the flavoring level is close? How do you know if steeping helps? Like Danny said, you taste it. You taste it fresh, you taste it one day old, you taste it a few days old, you taste it a week old....etc, etc, etc. Then you know.

I've been mixing longer than most and I would suggest not even taking everything I say as fact. Try it for yourself. Try it differently and see for yourself. See if it is better or worse. Try it multiple different ways and see what you think. It doesn't really matter how I like my juice or how I mix, it matters what you like and that you enjoy mixing.

 

[AndriaD]

Well, if you read on the internet that all juice needed steeping and you did it without tasting/thinking and ended up with some good juice, you might just convince yourself that it was true that all juices need to steep. Since that person doesn't know that it tastes the same fresh, that "knowledge" is passed to the next.

Now combine that with some mixes do need to steep, an amazing number of people who don't know the difference between steeping and airiing-out and which does which to juice, along with those who accept what is read as fact without question, and it's amazing what can be passed on as absolute fact. I've even been called names and made fun of because I was stupid enough to point out that steeping isn't magical and isn't usually needed by folks who have convinced themselves that steeping does magic stuff that proper mixing cannot do.

I've read people who put their mixes in crock pots for long periods of time and ask here why their juice tastes so bad and when I asked what it tasted like before they cooked it, they don't know because they think that all juice needs to be steeped.

How do you know the flavoring level is close? How do you know if steeping helps? Like Danny said, you taste it. You taste it fresh, you taste it one day old, you taste it a few days old, you taste it a week old....etc, etc, etc. Then you know.

I've been mixing longer than most and I would suggest not even taking everything I say as fact. Try it for yourself. Try it differently and see for yourself. See if it is better or worse. Try it multiple different ways and see what you think. It doesn't really matter how I like my juice or how I mix, it matters what you like and that you enjoy mixing.

Well I do know that the ejuice I get from MFS never needs steeping; it's great right out of the mailbox -- but I don't know *why* that's true; if they steep it, if it's steeped when they get it (if they don't mix it themselves), or if it's just that great that it doesn't need it.

Having now smelled this "Golden Virginia" I suspect this or something very like it is what they use, or whoever they get it from uses, and it just doesn't need steeping because it's just plain tasty as it is. But I don't really know.

So, yes, that's exactly what I'll do -- taste it tonight; taste it in a few days, week, or whatever. It might be great right now, just as MFS' Virginia is great right from the mailbox.

There are so many different stories about all of this stuff, it's VERY hard to know what is right. I don't use the "bunny ears" method for wicking my kayfun coils either, even if Busardo recommends it -- it doesn't work well for me, so I cut the wick right to the length that fits onto the ledges, prime it, and THEN put the chimney on. He also recommended top-filling a kayfun, and all that did was make a huge mess and waste 4ml of ejuice, so I don't do that either. But if there aren't even any experts to trust... how do you learn?

Andria

 

[Hoosier]

how do you learn?

I don't learn well in classroom settings. I've always learned by doing and making mistakes.

Folks who see some of my leather workings or woodwork don't believe that, but I got good by really screwing things up and learning from those mistakes. (The felt hat I'm wearing in my avatar is due to my woodworking skills in making a press form to shape the felt.)

 

[Pajack]

Well, if you read on the internet that all juice needed steeping and you did it without tasting/thinking and ended up with some good juice, you might just convince yourself that it was true that all juices need to steep. Since that person doesn't know that it tastes the same fresh, that "knowledge" is passed to the next.

Now combine that with some mixes do need to steep, an amazing number of people who don't know the difference between steeping and airiing-out and which does which to juice, along with those who accept what is read as fact without question, and it's amazing what can be passed on as absolute fact. I've even been called names and made fun of because I was stupid enough to point out that steeping isn't magical and isn't usually needed by folks who have convinced themselves that steeping does magic stuff that proper mixing cannot do.

I've read people who put their mixes in crock pots for long periods of time and ask here why their juice tastes so bad and when I asked what it tasted like before they cooked it, they don't know because they think that all juice needs to be steeped.

How do you know the flavoring level is close? How do you know if steeping helps? Like Danny said, you taste it. You taste it fresh, you taste it one day old, you taste it a few days old, you taste it a week old....etc, etc, etc. Then you know.

I've been mixing longer than most and I would suggest not even taking everything I say as fact. Try it for yourself. Try it differently and see for yourself. See if it is better or worse. Try it multiple different ways and see what you think. It doesn't really matter how I like my juice or how I mix, it matters what you like and that you enjoy mixing.

I totally agree with Hoosier As soon as i mix I test. With age some of the flavors do seem to become more pronounced and better. I look at it this way when you make a pot roast it is always better the next day or two after sitting in the fridge basting in all those juices. But that same pot roast was good the day you made it for dinner. Right?

 

[AndriaD]

I totally agree with Hoosier As soon as i mix I test. With age some of the flavors do seem to become more pronounced and better. I look at it this way when you make a pot roast it is always better the next day or two after sitting in the fridge basting in all those juices. But that same pot roast was good the day you made it for dinner. Right?

Usually food tastes better the 2nd day because some of the water has evaporated, which concentrates the flavors. Not sure that applies to ejuice; I think that's more a matter of the flavors getting fully mixed.

I did give all 3 that I mixed today a test. The best of the 3 was the cinnamon redhot. The Golden Virginia didn't taste bad, but it tasted... not finished, sorta. I do think it needs some time to steep, as I've read in a great many places that tobacco flavors tend to need more steeping than other flavors. It also seems just a tiny bit sweet, and the description on it said that some people find it slightly sweet. This might be a flavor that would benefit from a very light touch of that Bitter Wizard stuff, but I will let it sit for a while before I go trying to do anything else to it. I would need to order that stuff anyway, as I don't have any right now.

The Apple... hmm. Yes it tastes like apple, but it really is a faint taste; really more of a light scent than a taste. I will give that one a few days and try it again, and if the flavor is still that weak, I might add another 5 drops (5 was what I added at first).

I do think that these 3 experiments are more successful than the 2 I've previously tried, probably because I took good advice and didn't try to get fancy, but kept all 3 as single-flavor mixes. So I feel like I'm at least on the right track. Onward!

Thx!
Andria

 

[Crunktanium]

How many people age beef?

Not many people even know what aged beef is or would know when it was best if they did age it. I like freshly cut or ground beef but for those who enjoy the aging process more power to them. We all have out likes and dislikes and that's not to say I would not eat aged beef but I can live without it. Just as some people like myself wouldn't know the difference between a $5 and a $500 bottle of wine.

Steeping is what it is and most all of the premium vendors steep. Some juice will require a few days while others need a month to really shine. If you want to see what steeping does mix up two batches of m-type at 2% and test the first batch every few days. Let the second sit for a month and come back and let us know what you think. Some people say steeping adds nothing which could be true for their taste buds. But chemistry is chemistry and there is a reason a few can command high dollar for perfectly rounded and aged juice.

Just keep experimenting until you find what works best for you.