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Ridiculously over-rated mods

Discussion in 'VV/VW APV Discussion' started by sonicbomb, Jan 23, 2018.

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  1. Katdarling

    Katdarling Bling Kween and spreadsheet monster. ;) Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jan 25, 2011
    Utopia
    And for me, the race to wattagize has been vastly unimportant. I vape at 10 watts when I feeling REALLY frisky (kitty joke there, somewhere), but I'm usually ranging 8ish to 9ish.

    My latest new baby is the Squid, which soars to one-hundred-fifty watts. (Say WHAT??) It matters absolutely little to nothing to me, but I wanted it for its unique aesthetics and its dual battery setup.

    I love it, just by the way. LOVE it. Plain basic simple sturdy beautiful and non-TC. Even the menu amuses me with its 3 options. ;)

    Regardless of my vape style, I am in komplete agreement with you, sonic. Truth beats lies. Anyday. Everyday.
     
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  2. Mermaaan

    Mermaaan Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 17, 2013
    California
    I love the look and simplicity of that mod! If a two battery device could sway me to cross that line that would be the one. I've been resisting the temptation to buy one for awhile now. I definitely don't need one but very much want one :)
     
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  3. Katdarling

    Katdarling Bling Kween and spreadsheet monster. ;) Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jan 25, 2011
    Utopia
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  4. AzPlumber

    AzPlumber Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2011
    Arizona
    Won't be long before a mech mod is the safe bet. :D
     
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  5. Mermaaan

    Mermaaan Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 17, 2013
    California
    Done and done with a double barrel on its way as well!
     
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  6. Katdarling

    Katdarling Bling Kween and spreadsheet monster. ;) Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jan 25, 2011
    Utopia
    :thumbs:
     
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  7. Coastal Cowboy

    Coastal Cowboy This aggression will not stand, man! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 13, 2013
    Alabama Gulf Coast
    Two of my favorite brands--Eleaf and Smoant--are just as guilty. I have:
    • Eleaf Pico Dual 200
    • Eleaf Ikonn 220
    • Smoant Battlestar 200
    • Smoant Charon TC 218
    These are very well made, reliable devices. But there is no way any of them can consistently, safely and predictably produce the specified wattage with today's 18650 cells.

    I can't say I blame them for overrating their devices. They most assuredly believe they would be at a competitive disadvantage if they marketed them at the 150-ish Watts they're really good for.
     
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  8. madstabber

    madstabber Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I don’t pay attention to those numbers anyway. When buying a mod I look for number of batteries and size. I couldn’t possibly care any less what that watt number is because I’m never gonna approach it. I don’t know how dangerous it is either because if an inexperienced vaper cranked his/her mod up to the max and took a pull, I doubt they’d do it twice. Well on dual+ battery mods that’s true anyway. It could be a problem with single mods. Regardless I don’t want the government stepping in under the guise of safety to regulate the industry. The less government intervention in my daily life the better.
     
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  9. papergoblin

    papergoblin Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 16, 2013
    alabama
    Any state owned factory (they all are) that can clone a BMW and get away with it, has no fears.

    Now to play devil's advocate, they are really only saying the board can do the wattage, not the actual batteries. Since they are regulated they are only going to push so much power and to be honest, even though they are supposedly VW, I have a feeling they are actually VV.

    After playing with many VW devices, many aren't doing the actual wattage stated but are putting out close to the voltage on screen. It is a dangerous game as many are relying on that board to limit the amps drawn from the batteries. People don't realize that many of these boxes are series, and I really think they are playing with fire.

    They aren't 2xx watts at 4.2 volts, they are lower watts but at 5 volts and up, the screen is estimating that to what the wattage would be at 4.2 volts. Which is fine until a safety fails and lets a battery short.
     
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  10. KenD

    KenD Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 20, 2013
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Most mods today are actually quite good at step down, as low as 1w (check Djlsb vapes' tests). Tc would not work reliably without good step down.

    Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk
     
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  11. mcclintock

    mcclintock Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 28, 2014
    ^^-- well Nickel TC wouldn't work for sure.

    I think they're going the wrong way. We need 40 watts single cell mods and 80 watt dual cell ones that are safe on a wider range of cells. I hope there's a safety power limit nicely buried in the menu to make it harder to accidentally dial up full power on those overpowered monsters (like the power limit in TC)... waitaminute, what's low powered enough it doesn't need that?
     
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  12. papergoblin

    papergoblin Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 16, 2013
    alabama
    I agree but I'm not speaking to stepping down, I meant as stepping up. For an example, (all numbers are made up not accurate in anyway) A mod screen reads .12, 4.2v, and 285w, now it's a dual 18650 series mod. We know that it can't make 285w due to lack of power but it can do up to 8 volts. So while the mod says it's at 4.2v at 285w, it might be actually at 7v and xxx amount of watts.

    Now I'm not saying this is happening but I can see it as a work around for marketing hype. The problem is what happens if the safety(s) fail and you now have a .12 coil (or lower) running on series batteries. The great hope by manufacturers is that if it fails, the circuit will fail open. It's the same principle as a house breaker or fuse, if the circuit is overloaded the breaker/fuse should trip (turn off power). However there have been times where they actually become welded closed (allowing over current to pass through) which causes bad things to happen.
     
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  13. KenD

    KenD Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 20, 2013
    Stockholm, Sweden
    I've honestly never seen a mod function like that. Sure, it might show a wattage higher than it is actually firing, but it would also show the voltage it is supposed to be providing in other to fire at that wattage. So the voltage fired at would also be lower than what's displayed on screen.

    A regulated mod is not simply going to turn into an unregulated mod if the circuitry fails. It would require a series of very specific fails operating in unison to achieve that, and it's just very, very unlikely.

    Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk
     
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  14. papergoblin

    papergoblin Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 16, 2013
    alabama
    On some of the better designed stuff it may not happen but on some stuff you could short the board and have power run across, however how long until it actually melts to kill power is another thing. You have to remember a lot of the mods have a built in bypass mode (again depends on how they are doing it), if they can bypass to battery power on option, then it could fail and happen.

    No you've never seen anyone advertise a mod that way, that's my point. I'm speaking to how they are falsely claiming wattage and giving an example of how they could get a "percieved" wattage peak.


    EXAMPLE:
    .5 ohms @ 4.2V = 35.28W now .5 ohms @ 8.4v = 141.12W

    Per the example, manufacturers could be lying to consumers on how they are calculating the wattage their mods are providing. We all assume they are using normal voltages but they could very well not be. They are using firmware for these mods, which means they can manipulate how they read out. They could very well be using higher voltages than they show to obtain higher wattage.

    I'm not saying that this is how they are doing it but I can see it as a possibility, especially on some of the less than reputable companies. It's not hard to do it's simple math, like saying 2/4 instead of 1/2, same amount but one "looks" larger.

    Majority of these companies have no one to answer to, they can't be sued or shutdown, unless the Chinese government wants them closed. They can make it say whatever they want (which is dangerous) or just be simply false advertising.

    I'll admit the danger isn't as great in removable battery mods but when you get into high power lipo's, things can get hairy.
     
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  15. papergoblin

    papergoblin Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 16, 2013
    alabama
    I just got one of my mods out to try, now maybe there's something going on but here's what I did.

    1. Attached a Wotofo Sapor with a .4 ohm coil on it
    2. Set watts to 31.5, voltage read out 3.6 I think it was. (Rebuilt my VCMT2 after test, so forgot exact voltage readout, it was 3.something volts)
    3. Attached a multi-meter to + and - posts (readout didn't change on resistance, but should have I would have thought)
    4. Voltmeter readout was over 5 volts (meter used was one of the $30 needle readout types)

    There was not wick in the coil so dry burn, which in the end cause coil to burn out and kill power output on mod. Mod read "connect atomizer", it never picked up any type of resistance from meter. This wasn't scientific by any means and would need to be tested with a couple of different meters and mods before I'd fully rely on results.

    I expected a readout on the meter close to the readout of the mod, not almost a 2 volt difference. This was an older mod I have lying around so something else could be going on (that's why I'm not saying what it is) or maybe the meter isn't right (I did test it on known things and was correct though).
     
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  16. KenD

    KenD Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 20, 2013
    Stockholm, Sweden
    A clearly broken mod. If you're getting over double the wattage you'll notice it.

    Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk
     
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  17. KenD

    KenD Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 20, 2013
    Stockholm, Sweden
    I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here. Normal voltages Vs what? Manipulated firmwares to show lower voltages/wattages than what's provided? What!? If something like this would have been going on it would've been revealed ages ago.

    Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk
     
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  18. papergoblin

    papergoblin Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 16, 2013
    alabama
    Last I checked China still uses lead paint and sends things to the US. Just because it isn't good practice doesn't mean less than reputable companies aren't doing something. How many people have you seen actually use a volt meter to test what their mod is doing? Most people rely on mods to see the ohms they use and I've seen many mods that aren't accurate. That's not even counting mods I've seen not recognize a resistance change, unless they were cleared out first (fired without an atty attached).

    Here and there that could be a bad mod but I've seen many go through shops where it was set at a certain watt and voltage with a .25 atty, swap to a .5 and they read the same thing. So the mods would say they had a .25 and fire but they had .5 on them or more, had some that would fire a .01 and the mod wasn't supposed to fire below .05.

    My 1st point is people are putting way too much faith in these boards, thinking that if something goes wrong, the mod will shutdown before something happens. My 2nd point is these manufacturers are flat out lying at best, as there are no laws to bind them to anything, they have no liability (unless they are actually made in a free state).

    We believe a lot when we hear bad batches or poor QC, when in truth it's neither. Companies put out junk and hope it works long enough, if not they'll "fix it" next go around. Then maybe they have some long convoluted warranty process, that most won't bother with as it's too much trouble or their item gets lost in transit and the company adverts blame (again).
     
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  19. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    Chinese manufacturer say, "We make cheap. You buy cheap. It break. You buy another." :closedeyes:
     
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  20. KenD

    KenD Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 20, 2013
    Stockholm, Sweden
    And the US allows food additives that are not allowed in Europe, etc. Different countries/regions have different regulations (I could go on about how capitalism doesn't have the best interests of consumers as a priority and how some sort of regulations are a good thing, but I won't). Yes, these are cheap electronics, made in a country that doesn't have the same regulations as Europe or the US, and the vape industry is pretty much unregulated. It's risky. That's why I check out tests on any mods I buy to make sure they work as advertised.

    Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk
     
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