Rough news today

[Uma]

Oh OP, I so feel for you too. I'm also very impressed and happy about your son trusting in your love and support to know he could turn to you. I wish more parents, humans, were like you!
I agree with many of the comments, especially Adriane's and Jman8's, if it's any help to you. They nailed it. Love, integrity, respect & your undying support is crucial. Kids see through the BS & need the whole story, even the truths they can relate to. Its the same as a good comedy. It's not that funny of an act if we can't relate to what the comedian is expressing. That's what the ANTZ are, a bad comedy act. , they'd never make it as comedians because people just can't relate until perhaps it's too late, & even then the audience would rather flip them off than their smoking. (Jman8 is not a lone wolf, kodiac)
Continue being there for him, loving him no matter what, and guide him as the occasions demand.
I have a feeling that a lot more parents will be going through this in the next few years unless the ANTZ back off. The ANTZ groups are so adamant about stirring up curiosity about smoking. The media is constantly full with smoking, cigarettes, nicotine, and illegal activities. They even invade the schools, brainwash their minds there in case they don't have a tv at home. It's a constant assault of smoke, cigarettes, nicotine, eCigs, .. the kids get no rest! It's like a constant advertisement. The kids are savvy, they read enough to know the BS when they see it, and the ANTZ shovel the BS like its candy. Sometimes I believe they're promoting smoking in order to keep their MSA and BP grants coming in.
A lot of people put it on peer pressure, and peer pressure certainly has it's place, but IMO, nature plays a bigger part or the first ever cigarette never would have been rolled and smoked in the first place.
Keep on doing what you've been doing. You have a great kid who trusts & loves you. That's more than what a lot of people can say.

 

[alisa1970]

Just to defend my little (and perhaps irrelevant) post...

I agree that trying to scare someone into quitting doesn't work. I grew up in a non-smoking household, and I remember as a small child, when my aunt would visit (who was a smoker) I would beg her to quit smoking. I ended up starting to smoke cigarettes when I was 13 (alcohol and drugs started sooner, so don't talk to me about "gateways") and nothing deterred me. My parents didn't know for sure, but suspected it when I was about 15 or 16 and would make little comments about how cool it is not (that's not why I started), or how not to succumb to peer pressure (had nothing to do with it), or how devastated they would be if I ever got cancer or some smoking related illness.

Nor did the PSA's on smoking and drugs even phase me.

So my intention wasn't to suggest showing him a gruesome picture, and telling his son "do you want this to happen to you?". We ALL know it won't work. We were all smokers at one time not so long ago. I smoked for 30 years, and not ONE thing anyone said, or that I said to myself in passing, made me really want to quit. When my SO was in the hospital 3 times having lung surgery, and he begged me in pain to stop smoking, I didn't quit. When I started vaping, my intention wasn't to quit. But I did, and I'm incredibly thankful that I did.

No, it was the STORY of this young man (who was only 3 years older than me), who was healthy and strong only 9 WEEKS before he was diagnosed and died. And how HIS mission on his deathbed was to try to reach young people to ask them not to start.

If a 14 year old has been smoking for 6 months, I can almost guarantee that he is not addicted yet. It is POSSIBLE, that with a loving discussion about the possible risks and a request to read that man's story, that his son may decide that the risk isn't worth starting and getting addicted.

Once you are addicted, I agree, there is nothing that will work. Not scare tactics, or threats, or even begging in desperation will do it. At that point you kind of have to want to in some minor way.

My point was MAYBE it's early enough that an image and touching story like that, and concern expressed in love, may make him think a little bit longer before grabbing a smoke. And if not, I can guarantee you that at some point he may remember that conversation and when he is ready to quit, that story might step out of his subconscious and give him a little nudge to stop.

 

[Jman8]

Once you are addicted, I agree, there is nothing that will work. Not scare tactics, or threats, or even begging in desperation will do it. At that point you kind of have to want to in some minor way.

My point was MAYBE it's early enough that an image and touching story like that, and concern expressed in love, may make him think a little bit longer before grabbing a smoke. And if not, I can guarantee you that at some point he may remember that conversation and when he is ready to quit, that story might step out of his subconscious and give him a little nudge to stop.

I bolded the part above, because as I see it it is, "once you are resistant" nothing will (seem to) work. And there is reason to be resistant, because the 'authorities' are telling gross lies about smoking. They are not telling the whole truth. So, the other side of the equation either comes from grown ups who are willing to share the whole truth, or from personal experience (of the smoker). And smokers learn to adapt. You learn to live with the coughing, wheezing, lower energy, and other possible health problems, because a) you can still live with them (and be successful) and b) cause you've built up a resistance that is based on reasoning. You realize the worst case scenario that they tried to sell you on in prevention mode isn't currently applying to you.

I think same happens with vaping. Heck, before I go there, I would just note how acutely it happens with smoking. Perhaps in first month or even year (at most) of your smoking you felt some invincibility and had addiction thing well in place. But to argue many years later that you had 'no idea' that smoking could be harming you just doesn't fly with reason. I contend that everyone that smokes heavily, for more than 3 months, knows it is harming them. But also knows it isn't immediately killing them. And knows there are lots and lots of other things on this planet (some considered "very good") that will kill you, eventually. I would argue everything on this planet (without exception) has that potential. Smoking being a teeny tiny morsel of that reality.

So, you could've quit yourself after 1 month, 3 months, 1 year, 3 years, 8 years, or 25 years. You did not. You chose not. And justified to yourself, despite your own self and umpteen other sources saying otherwise. And you also lived, worked, ate, slept and enjoyed life during those many many years of smoking. To slough all off on "well that's addiction for you" is a cop out, IMHO. It's irresponsible stigmatization. It is saying, I won't/can't quit, because I'm addicted. It's very very much acting like a baby about own responsibility in the matter. Not being honest with yourself about why you enjoy it, and feeling disempowered to share that part of the equation with anyone. As much as addiction is physiological (and it surely is), it is foremost a psychological condition, that stems from a resistance that likely started way before you picked up your first cigarette. And when you make earnest attempt to stop, you are letting that resistance go. Plain and simple. Though easier said than done.

Same with vaping today. Reality is no one does know long term effects of vaping, but vapers have resistant to any messages that say "quit now, and avoid bad news later on." And I would say, as a fellow vaper, good reason for not adhering to that message as it seems to be conveyed by known deceivers. Well known deceivers. Who give absolutely no credit to what vaping does, can do, and how utterly enjoyable it can be.

But every smoker could quit smoking with vaping, and then within 3 months time, cut to 0 nic, or very very low nic. But we don't because vaping (nic) is cool, fun, enjoyable and holds benefits in our day to day living. Ones that we'll openly discuss on vaping forum. But ones that if confronted by the "quit or die" crowd will be met with reasonable resistance to that message.

To think kids are vastly different because their level of "coolness" is immature or whatever is between humorous and fascinating. Especially considering that everyone (literally) was once a kid, and once traveled that path. Thinking you would've quit smoking for good at age 19 if someone would've just punished you in the 'right way' is funny (to me). You would've seen that coming from a mile away, resisted it (for good reason), and stopped just long enough to placate the punisher and get away from them sooner than later. That's under best case scenario. Or would've learned to adapt to keep it hidden from that person while placating them so punishment is not so severe, hoping they'd just understand this is something you enjoy doing. That it's not all bad, and they simply don't understand or are seemingly resistant from even wanting to understand (your reasoning).

I realize this is already a wall of text, but is necessary I think to cut through one version of the "tough love" BS that we've built up around addictions and stopping (youth from doing) them. Punishment and negative messaging isn't working. As in clearly not working. Nor is that "tough love." Instead, it is very likely just building up the original resistance.

One that knows you, trusts you, respects you and foremost loves you, wouldn't play this child's game in having you see another way of going about things. One that knows you knows the resistance and knows it is there for a reason. And knows love will overcome that, easily, if given the opportunity. The One I speak of is within you, everywhere you go, knowing precisely what you are up to at all times. And sees others around who you can trust, and who are there to help, genuinely. Giving up that resistance to anyone / anything outside of you is generally not a good thing. It may work, but chances are it won't leave lasting impression, nor one that is honored/honorable. Giving up that resistance to One that knows you (better than you know your own self), is the way to overcoming something as teeny tiny as addiction. But again, is easier said than done, and is worthy of a whole other wall of text.

This One made it easy for me to go cold turkey when I was heavily addicted to smoking, and made it seem super duper easy to just stop and choose another path. Not necessarily a better path, but one with a whole lot less resistance, or what I'd call Grace.

 

[alisa1970]

Don't have much time, will read more closely later. However,

So, you could've quit yourself after 1 month, 3 months, 1 year, 3 years, 8 years, or 25 years. You did not. You chose not. And justified to yourself, despite your own self and umpteen other sources saying otherwise.

-snip_

To slough all off on "well that's addiction for you" is a cop out, IMHO. It's irresponsible stigmatization. It is saying, I won't/can't quit, because I'm addicted. It's very very much acting like a baby about own responsibility in the matter. Not being honest with yourself about why you enjoy it, and feeling disempowered to share that part of the equation with anyone.

Nope. Actually, when I was 16, I did quit. And even though I'd been smoking for about 3 years (I was a kid so not regularly at home or at school but still smoked), I did quit. Easy-peasy. For about a month, and had no issue. I was not addicted, except perhaps phsychologically. So when I had "just one", I was quickly up to a pack a day and within 2 years, quitting was not an option, and I was addicted. If I had never had that "just one" smoke, I probably would not be smoking 25 years later. Would anything have kept me from it? I don't know. But maybe.

I'm actually a bit frosted for you saying this...you know my personal history, and you still pop off that BS? I was very, VERY addicted---physically--and got very sick as a result of removing the parts of tobacco that while not keeping me healthy, kept me from spiraling down like I did when I stopped smoking.

You can think 90% of anything is in your mind...I'm calling you on it.

 

[Jman8]

I'm actually a bit frosted for you saying this...you know my personal history, and you still pop off that BS?

The "you" that I was referring to was a general "you" and not address specifically to you.

I was very, VERY addicted---physically--and got very sick as a result of removing the parts of tobacco that while not keeping me healthy, kept me from spiraling down like I did when I stopped smoking.

You can think 90% of anything is in your mind...I'm calling you on it.

Oh, I'd go higher than 90%.

 

[Bramble]

He and I don't respond well to scare tactics, anti smoking ads always make me WANT to smoke. We are stubborn jerks.

I'm a jerk and always think, "Well that happens to mortals. Glad I'm not one of those." I used to think it was just because I was young and foolish but now I'm old and as many of us do, think it will never happen to us."

FWIW also smoking cessation media (brochures, FB pages, web sites) that show a lit cigarette in an ash tray probably have no idea how much of a trigger that is for me. Same with lighters.

So in general usually what TC does trying to get people to smoke has - like you - made me smoke more.

 

[alisa1970]

Quite honestly, despite that the makers PSAs think they will help people quit smoking by those, I think they are more effective at keeping kids from starting, or getting them to stop before they have really gotten addicted (regardless of what you think "addiction" means).

Why else the stigma that smoking has now, and that fewer kids are starting than ever before? It's a combination of things, but for sure that combination is working.

 

[Moedog]

Quite honestly, despite that the makers PSAs think they will help people quit smoking by those, I think they are more effective at keeping kids from starting, or getting them to stop before they have really gotten addicted (regardless of what you think "addiction" means).

Why else the stigma that smoking has now, and that fewer kids are starting than ever before? It's a combination of things, but for sure that combination is working.

Alisa, who told you "fewer kids are starting than ever before." I work with teenagers and twenty somethings and have found a big uptick in smoking/tobacco use in the last decade or so. Its due to the world we live in-- high stress levels, more freedoms for the young, and a higher level of independence for some young people, as well as a well-founded high level of skepticism towards the media by young people.

 

[Bramble]

Quite honestly, despite that the makers PSAs think they will help people quit smoking by those, I think they are more effective at keeping kids from starting, or getting them to stop before they have really gotten addicted (regardless of what you think "addiction" means).

Why else the stigma that smoking has now, and that fewer kids are starting than ever before? It's a combination of things, but for sure that combination is working.

Not disagreeing with you but one big change that has helped keep kids off cigarettes is fewer adults smoking around them. The grownups lead. Had my parents not smoked I could not have taken cigs from their packs and experimented, it would not have been normal in my home. I could not have gotten away with smelling like tobacco. Fact is, I smelled like cigarette smoke my whole life either from their SHS or eventually my own. Had I not smoked my girls would not likely have picked it up either. Thankfully one of them has quit and the other smokes very little now, often filling in smoking with vaping.

This is something I have tried to stress to politicians when I have written them letters. Want to keep kids safe from smoking? When adults don't smoke, or quit smoking... all the kids benefit.

 

[alisa1970]

Alisa, who told you "fewer kids are starting than ever before." I work with teenagers and twenty somethings and have found a big uptick in smoking/tobacco use in the last decade or so. Its due to the world we live in-- high stress levels, more freedoms for the young, and a higher level of independence for some young people, as well as a well-founded high level of skepticism towards the media by young people.

Here you go:

Trends in Adolescent Tobacco Use - The Office of Adolescent Health

Can't post the graph pic, but it's there.

That as well as observation--I see far fewer kids smoking than I remember when I was in high school.

 

[alisa1970]

Not disagreeing with you but one big change that has helped keep kids off cigarettes is fewer adults smoking around them. The grownups lead. Had my parents not smoked I could not have taken cigs from their packs and experimented, it would not have been normal in my home. I could not have gotten away with smelling like tobacco. Fact is, I smelled like cigarette smoke my whole life either from their SHS or eventually my own. Had I not smoked my girls would not likely have picked it up either. Thankfully one of them has quit and the other smokes very little now, often filling in smoking with vaping.

This is something I have tried to stress to politicians when I have written them letters. Want to keep kids safe from smoking? When adults don't smoke, or quit smoking... all the kids benefit.

I think you can't generalize on that...all my friends and I (who smoked ) came from non-smoking households. I was the only one in my family who smoked, excluding 1 aunt.