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Russian 91% or kfl+

Discussion in 'ProVari' started by Cob24, Jan 9, 2014.

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  1. Cob24

    Cob24 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    So it's tax season and I've decided that I'm gonna get into the rebuildables. I'm not a massive fan of dripping personally, I just love the ease of tanks.
    It's my understanding that the Russians and the kfls are essentially the same thing. Is this true? If not thoughts on either one on a provari? My understanding is that they are both $100 so it's either or I guess. I saw the Russian on te coop thread for $60 and mbv for 100 with the plastic and the steel tank. What sort of supplies would I need for rebuilding it? How hard is it really? What's the hit like compared to a carto tank? My dripper was rebuilt and hits so hard it hurts now so I'm not looking for that.

    Feed me with your wealthes of knowledges.
     
  2. LX1X

    LX1X Super Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 15, 2013
    Fee State
    Russians are clones of kayfun.. Russians are made in china.. kf are Germany. From what I understand.
     
  3. Spydro

    Spydro Sindoyen Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 20, 2013
    Some folks like PB’s reviews, some don’t. Not a debate I’m going to get into one way or the other. Regardless, this one does a pretty good job of comparing the KFL and R91.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWrFsa6YOaE

    The KFL+ added the adjustable draw that the KFL didn’t have (and the R91 starts out with). Other differences are pointed out in the video.


    I have the KFL+ with no plans to get a R91. Mainly due to already having too many clones, knock-offs, replica’s in my Chinese gear. I like that the KF gear is made in Germany as well. Before I retired two plus decades ago I worked for a very large German machinery MFG company that was the worldwide leader in their field. The quality of the gear the Germans build is hard to beat (so is their design abilities).

    http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/provari/509213-success-micro-coil-kayfun.html
     
  4. Zbeast08

    Zbeast08 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 18, 2013
    Wilson, NC, USA
    I have the KFL+ on a provari and a Russian 91% on the way. I am fairly new with the KFL and still learning myself. There is a thread on the KFL+ but is rather long...600 pages plus, I am about halfway through it. There is also a good video by Phil Bsuardo comparing the two and the differences which are very minor. In appearance, the KFL+ is a brushed look and the Russian is more of a darker matte beaded finish. I had hundreds of questions before I took the leap and no regrets so far. Compared to cartotanks, the KFL is more finicky as far as wicking goes but when it's set up properly, it's hard to beat! The vaping is different compared to cartotanks but I still and will have cartotanks in my rotation as far as pretty much trouble free! It is a nice topper and I am enjoying it as well as the Sophia by Leo. I have a thread here in the provari forum that I started a couple weeks ago about these two toppers which I am learning about. I haven't built my first coil yet, JWJ67-forum member, helped show me how to build my me and only microcoil with cotton wick. Didn't seem to bad! Just do some reading and watch some videos and I'll let the pros chime in and give you more advice!!
    I do have some 28,30 and 32 ga kanthal to build coils with and organic cotton balls, silica wick, and some yarn to experiment with different wicks when the time comes. Have fun!!
    Oh yea, I would have linked those threads and video for you but couldn't figure that out either!
     
  5. Ozwald

    Ozwald Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 12, 2013
    Montana
    You can't go wrong with either. They're almost identical. The finish is slightly different. The R91 needs an adapter (which is included) to use a different tip. The location of the air adjustment screw is different (but functionally the same). They're both about equally difficult to get & both are selling out just as quickly. If you find you have a slight preference of one over the other, wait it out & get that one. Otherwise get whichever is available. The preference between the 2 is going to be personal instead of universal... neither is really 'better'. (And yes, the R91, technically is a clone, but don't confuse clone with 'cheap chinese knock-off'... for once it isn't)

    This is all provided you are looking at both authentic models.
     
  6. Cob24

    Cob24 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    The Russians seem to be coming available a lot today. I'm curious about the throat hit and what all would be necessary to get me set up. Some people use cotton and some use string? I'm just in over my head. But from what I have seen it seems to be the easiest rebuildable to learn on. I know I'm not going to be able to replace my carto tanks because of how easy they are to do and cheap. I'm just starting to get more and more afraid that buying gear is going to be harder and harder so I'm thinking about rebuildables and DIY stuff moving forward. I've grown quite fond of vaping and I don't want it all to come crashing down if the powers that be make it too hard to order online.
    However this will be my first rebuildable and I want it to be user friendly and something I'm not constantly worried.
     
  7. Ozwald

    Ozwald Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 12, 2013
    Montana
    I think there was a large batch just released... they could dry up in a big hurry again, hard to say. I hope they haven't lowered their standards & are cheaping out to push them out faster to keep up with demand.

    Throat hit is more about the juice than the RBA. Both the KFL+ & R91 have an airflow control which cover a wide array of draw resistance. The only people I've heard aren't happy with the draw adjustments are the heavy lung hitters.

    I got into RBA's for the same reason - self-sufficiency for a SHTF moment. I don't know if they're the 'easiest' per se, but they are easy. You can always worry about what kind of wick you want to use later on down the road & experiment with different kinds. Cotton is becoming very common - it's the cheapest option, it's simple to use & it vapes clean. Also, in a SHTF situation, it's going to be easy to find & readily available.

    Go for the R91, you'll dig it. Honestly after really researching them, the deciding factor for me getting the KFL+ was appearance. I didn't need an adapter (which is included for free anyways) for a different drip tip, and the air adjustment screw is on the bottom. I think it makes for a cleaner/sleeker look & personally I just set the air flow where I want it & never have to mess with it again. If I had the cash & wanted another one right now (I want another, but I can wait a little longer), I wouldn't hesitate buying an R91, even though I like the KFL+ slightly better.
     
  8. Firestorm

    Firestorm Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 25, 2012
    Chicagoland
    I have a KFL+ and two R91s. They are nearly identical and I think that either one would work well for you. There are some minor differences; the two that stand out the most in my mind are the placement of the airflow control (AFC) and the fact that the R91 has an adjustable 510 center pin. I never change the AFC setting, so that is not of consequence to me, but I use the R91's adjustable 510 center pin ALL THE TIME. If you’re only using a Provari, then I don’t think that it matters, but if you’re using different mechanical mods, perhaps with a fuse or a Kick, or hybrid adapters, then I think that for the adjustable 510 center pin alone, the R91 is better. For example, I was using a GP Paps X in 18490 mode with a mechanical fuse last night with the X ring and I could NOT get the KFL+ to sit flush without a gap somewhere. So instead, I took a R91 and reduced the length of the adjustable 510 center pin with my fingernail and I got it to sit flush with no gaps. Winning!

    For rebuilding, you need wick and wire and perhaps other supplies depending on how you build. I highly suggest that you watch some YouTube videos on how to build a Kayfun. After some experience, I think you’ll find that a Kayfun-style atomizer is pretty straight-forward to set up. It’s hard to compare it to a cartomizer tank because you can use so many different kinds of wick and wire in different configurations with different resistances. I think that flavor is closer to a dripping atomizer than a cartomizer because there is no polyfill. If you find that your build hits "too hard" perhaps you should rebuild and aim for a higher resistance.

    I’ve been using 2mm Ekowool and 28awg A1-Kanthal resistance wire for my KFL+ and R91 builds. I use tweezers and a butane torch to compress the coil. Nailclippers are a great universal tool for cutting wick and wire, and of course two sizes of Phillips-head screwdrivers for the fill hole and the post screws.
     
  9. xyanide

    xyanide Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2013
    The Netherlands
    As others said, they're nearly identical. I did have one short out on me when I tried to adjust the center pin, thankfully on a regulated mod and I did expect it to happen. Just unscrewing a little fixed it. The R91 does allow you to properly adjust that center pin without holding down the build blocks on the atomizer deck.
    Either model is a breeze to rebuild with cotton, I got consistent great builds after about 3 tries. There's plenty of youtube build guides to get you started so don't worry about that.
     
  10. Still138

    Still138 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Russians are 1:1 clones. All it really comes down to is which finish you want...
     
  11. Firestorm

    Firestorm Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 25, 2012
    Chicagoland
    I hate the R91's media blasted finish as it doesn't go with any of my mods. Fortunately, it's easy to use a Scotchbrite or other tools to brush or polish them. My R91s are now polished and shine brighter than my KFL+ and go great with all my mods.
     
  12. Kahuna Cowboy

    Kahuna Cowboy Super Member ECF Veteran

    The Russian has a true adjustable connection pin to make contact with all devices you might have, has an easier access air flow control screw to make adjustments on the fly, and I prefer the integrated "rock solid" drip tip of the R91. Also the plastic ring of the Russian appears to take on harsher juices better than the one that came with my KFL+. The KFL+ clear ring was eaten up pretty quickly.

    The KFC+ has a better design on the fill port (easier to use snub tips to fill) and arguably a better finish if you prefer stainless over media blasted.

    I personally prefer the Russian 91%. It's slightly cheaper and more versatile.
     
  13. BulletStopper

    BulletStopper Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2013
    Kentucky
    I prefer the looks of my KFL+, as well as the fill port. I like the air flow control better of the Russian, but also rarely adjust it.

    The adjustable center pin is nice on the Russian. The KFL does allow my Loki ring to spin, but not move up and down.

    With the same build they vape the same.
     
  14. Ozwald

    Ozwald Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 12, 2013
    Montana
    Where are you buying them? The R91 tends to be just a bit more everywhere I've seen them.
     
  15. BulletStopper

    BulletStopper Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2013
    Kentucky
    I spent 92.50 (Kidney Puncher) on the Russian and 99 on the KFL+ (Vaperev)
     
  16. dmska

    dmska Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 9, 2011
  17. Firestorm

    Firestorm Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 25, 2012
    Chicagoland
    You should check out the CoOps Planning and Discussion Forum right now if you want a great price, but are willing to wait a LONG time.
     
  18. Kn0ttYFive

    Kn0ttYFive Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 27, 2013
    Releaser of the KRAKEN
    Or just wait for the Kayfun 4, that will be out in about 3 months.
     
  19. Ozwald

    Ozwald Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 12, 2013
    Montana
    I'm not actively looking but I have seen that thread. I just know that the MSRP on the R91 is a few bucks higher than the KFL+. Getting them from different vendors can help, of course. The last time I checked I could get a KFL+ shipped from Germany at around $102, but that's international shipping & the fluctuating difference between the Euro & USD.

    Either way the price difference is so close that I personally don't even consider it. If I was actively looking to buy one & both were available, I'd buy the KFL+ without hesitation. If the R91 was the only of the 2 available, I'd buy that one without hesitation. IMO, they're so close that the only difference is in minor personal preferences and/or availability.
     
  20. Train2

    Train2 ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 11, 2013
    CA, USA
    Is it that easy?
    I haven't polished ANYTHING - but would be interested in doing so if I get either KFL or R91.
    Can anyone point me towards a thread or youtubevid or advice on best way to do that - to get a polished finish on something that comes brushed or bead-finished?



     
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