Ruyan goes Prime Time....news story

[kristin]

This won't be a popular comment, but I just don't see Big tobacco as the big evil industry that it used to be. They are just making a product - we have the choice to use them or not. They are so heavily regulated on what they can say and how they can advertise, much of the misleading behavior of the 50' - 80's is pretty much history. They are paying for that history, but it's important to remember that those tobacco executives are long gone and their modern replacements know they have an image problem to overcome. They are no more "evil" than the exeuctives who market fast food, alcohol or Ben & Jerry's Chunky Monkey.

The tobacco industry has made huge strides in the past 15-20 years. They are way ahead of the game in producing smoke-free alternatives that are 98% or more safe than cigarettes. It's our wonderful government and the anti-tobacco groups who are the evil "liars for profit" now. They forbid tobacco companies to even HINT at the fact that smokeless tobacco is PROVEN to be safer. They also make it impossible for tobacco companies to qualify for reduced harm status so they CAN tell smokers there is a safer alternative. Read: Tobacco Truth: Congressional Craziness: Requiring Population-Level Proof for Harm Reduction

Strange 180 degree turn, isn't it?

I think BT in e-cigs could be fine. Unlike BP or the government, BT is in the business of trying to make it's customers happy and want to come back for more. They would LOVE to offer ecigs users everything that we want or we'll just buy overseas. (Yes, BP is an industry, but they don't care about customer satisfaction or they'd make their NRTs more appealing! They take the attitude that we NEED them and take it or leave it.)

It's the government that will want to screw with BT and make them make ecigs crap. But with the power BT has, we'd have a much better chance at getting a decent product than if they stay out and BP gets their hands in it or the small companies get strangled by the FDA because they don;t have the lobbying power to stop it.

 

[reverendg]

This won't be a popular comment, but I just don't see Big Tobacco as the big evil industry that it used to be. They are just making a product - we have the choice to use them or not. They are so heavily regulated on what they can say and how they can advertise, much of the misleading behavior of the 50' - 80's is pretty much history. They are paying for that history, but it's important to remember that those tobacco executives are long gone and their modern replacements know they have an image problem to overcome. They are no more "evil" than the exeuctives who market fast food, alcohol or Ben & Jerry's Chunky Monkey.

The tobacco industry has made huge strides in the past 15-20 years. They are way ahead of the game in producing smoke-free alternatives that are 98% or more safe than cigarettes. It's our wonderful government and the anti-tobacco groups who are the evil "liars for profit" now. They forbid tobacco companies to even HINT at the fact that smokeless tobacco is PROVEN to be safer. They also make it impossible for tobacco companies to qualify for reduced harm status so they CAN tell smokers there is a safer alternative. Read: Tobacco Truth: Congressional Craziness: Requiring Population-Level Proof for Harm Reduction

Strange 180 degree turn, isn't it?

I think BT in e-cigs could be fine. Unlike BP or the government, BT is in the business of trying to make it's customers happy and want to come back for more. They would LOVE to offer ecigs users everything that we want or we'll just buy overseas. (Yes, BP is an industry, but they don't care about customer satisfaction or they'd make their NRTs more appealing! They take the attitude that we NEED them and take it or leave it.)

It's the government that will want to screw with BT and make them make ecigs crap. But with the power BT has, we'd have a much better chance at getting a decent product than if they stay out and BP gets their hands in it or the small companies get strangled by the FDA because they don;t have the lobbying power to stop it.

Only problem that I may have with it is if the big money decides to pay off enough politicians that they have the monopoly on it. Would put a lot of hard working mom and pop shops out in the cold.

 

[Mister Hyde]

Only problem that I may have with it is if the big money decides to pay off enough politicians that they have the monopoly on it. Would put a lot of hard working mom and pop shops out in the cold.

I guess if that meens better products, (thanks to better R&D), i am all for it....maybe we will get better quality products, no more batteries that last only 3 or 4 weeks (if we are lucky) before they crap out on us, or attys that are DOA (usually 2 out of 5) or even attys and cartos that last 1 or 2 ours and than ....dead.
I have nothing agaist mom and pop shops, but the product they get from the manufactures now, is sub-standard and the quality is....well, its what it is....IMO, the E-CIGS industry needs some big bucks to develop better product. ( Talking exclusivly about hardwear, on the e-liquid side, mom and pops shops usualy = better products)

Just my ,and maybe (er....probably) i could be wrong.

 

[TropicalBob]

This is a go-nowhere product that is NOT an e-cigarette. Smokers who try it will still crave nicotine and whole tobacco alkaloids -- and might conclude e-cigarettes are completely ineffective.

Get it on the market? You can already buy all kinds of placebo, fake cigarettes. This in no way opens the doors to the FDA welcoming e-cigs.

Mark it down: No good will come from this. It's not an e-cig. It doesn't contain nicotine. It's simply corporate greed at work again. And Kristin is 100% correct in her post. If we don't even know who the enemy is, how can we wage an effective fight?

 

[kristin]

Only problem that I may have with it is if the big money decides to pay off enough politicians that they have the monopoly on it. Would put a lot of hard working mom and pop shops out in the cold.

Some of the "mom & pops" SHOULD be out in the cold. Who knows the sanitary conditions they have and what is used in the liquid? Most of them are just repackaging Dekang products anyhow.

I don't think there will be a BT monopoly on ecigs. It's too easy to order so many products from the internet.

If anything, BT will have to work that much harder in product development to get our business.

And so long as ecigs are classified as tobacco products, BP won't be able to get a monopoly on them, either.

 

[sherid]

This won't be a popular comment, but I just don't see Big Tobacco as the big evil industry that it used to be. They are just making a product - we have the choice to use them or not. They are so heavily regulated on what they can say and how they can advertise, much of the misleading behavior of the 50' - 80's is pretty much history. They are paying for that history, but it's important to remember that those tobacco executives are long gone and their modern replacements know they have an image problem to overcome. They are no more "evil" than the exeuctives who market fast food, alcohol or Ben & Jerry's Chunky Monkey.

The tobacco industry has made huge strides in the past 15-20 years. They are way ahead of the game in producing smoke-free alternatives that are 98% or more safe than cigarettes. It's our wonderful government and the anti-tobacco groups who are the evil "liars for profit" now. They forbid tobacco companies to even HINT at the fact that smokeless tobacco is PROVEN to be safer. They also make it impossible for tobacco companies to qualify for reduced harm status so they CAN tell smokers there is a safer alternative. Read: Tobacco Truth: Congressional Craziness: Requiring Population-Level Proof for Harm Reduction

Strange 180 degree turn, isn't it?

I think BT in e-cigs could be fine. Unlike BP or the government, BT is in the business of trying to make it's customers happy and want to come back for more. They would LOVE to offer ecigs users everything that we want or we'll just buy overseas. (Yes, BP is an industry, but they don't care about customer satisfaction or they'd make their NRTs more appealing! They take the attitude that we NEED them and take it or leave it.)

It's the government that will want to screw with BT and make them make ecigs crap. But with the power BT has, we'd have a much better chance at getting a decent product than if they stay out and BP gets their hands in it or the small companies get strangled by the FDA because they don;t have the lobbying power to stop it.

I could not agree with you more.

 

[D103]

Ah the kool-aid has been passed around again. Make no mistake about it; BT is in business to Make Money, period!! If making customers happy is a way to make more money then they will include that in their plans, but believe this, they will do it Their way, to Their advantage and in Their own time. Don't forget the very real possibility of a monopoly - when I have a monopoly on a product (not only a product people want, but a product that people are hooked on-don't forget that) I don't have to make my product with the intention of 'making customers happy' so long as my product 'scratches their itch'. And, with a monopoly and the FDA insisting on regulations, I can pretty much charge whatever I want for my product and justify the excessive cost by blaming 'regulations'. Don't forget BT sells the only other 'nicotine delivery device'-traditional cigarettes, and they'll play both sides. BP has only NRT's which almost everyone finds unsatisfactory so they will be no competition(at least not yet). I believe the government will continue to come up with ways in which to block and/or document online ordering of overseas products thus opening the doors to prosecutorial possibilities or at the very least taxation options. Could BT come up with a 'better, possibly safer e-cig? maybe; could BT with all their money and power withstand FDA regulation requirements? definitely! I just have no illusions about who my former and potentially new 'drug dealer' is: BT has not 'changed for the better'; if anything they have become more emboldened, more ruthless and certainly more savy in the whole 'legal drug trade'.

 

[kristin]

The rabid hatred of an industry confounds me - especially coming from people who are trying to justify their own addiction. D103, you sound just like an anti in that post!

How are ecig vendors/manufacturers any better than BT today? They are just the "drug dealer" of choice.

But putting it that way also denormalized nicotine users and compares them to ...... addicts.

Nicotine is a beneficial drug and relatively harmless absent the smoke.

Caffeine is similar to nicotine and I don't hear people calling coffee growers "drug dealers."

To me, THAT is more like the anti's kool-aid.

BT has been trying to get the government to support reduced harm ST products for YEARS. They could be just as lucrative for BT as cigarettes, given they are less risk - plus their customers will live longer and people who avoid cigarettes may use low-risk ST, so a larger customer base!

Sure, BT will try to block or edge out competition, but how is that any different than ANY other industry?

BT, BP and ecig manufacturers will someday all be making similar products. BP & BT already are - look at nicotine lozenges sold by BP and tobacco lozenges sold by BT. BP is also working on the FDA to let them market NRTs as long-term alternatives. Pretty soon you won't be able to tell the difference between a BT product and a BP product.

The difference in when BT and BP ruled the market is that consumers didn't have the internet. The truth about reduced harm products and electronic cigarettes is getting out to more and more smokers and once it's common knowledge, the game will change.

It already has.

 

[D103]

Sorry about that. My anger towwards Big Corporations got the better of me. But I'm not at all trying to justify my addiciton, I am totally responsible for that, always have been.
Given that, I recognize that my addiction makes me considerably more vulnerable as a consumer and at times can skew my perceptions - to not recognize that is just delusion and denial. What I am trying to say is that BT, in my opinion only, will likely end up with a monopoly which will certainly serve BT's best interests and while it may keep e-cigs available to us - it is very unclear as to what exactly the product will be like and what it will cost. Given my addiction and the current options of private, smaller vendors versus a potential future Large Vendor(BT) I want the smaller guys - I fear that in the near future I will no longer have that option.

 

[kristin]

It's a common fear, but I truly believe that if SE wins their court case, BT will have a hard time monopolizing the ecig industry. They have a lot of catching up to do.

There are still a lot of smaller tobacco companies - which BT did throw under the bus to save menthol from Congress - so BT is pretty much the same as McDonalds, IMO. Sure, they are the big dogs, but there are still plenty of mom & pop burger places around.

BT formed and gained it's power in a different era - nicotine was available only in they way THEY wanted to give it.

Now nicotine is available in a plethora of forms and products. BP may not have taken over BT's market, but they whittled it down considerably (consider in the 50's that nearly 1/2 of U.S males smoked and that of those who quit, 36% use NRTs long-term) and if BP gets permission to market their products as long-term and raise the nicotine content, they'll steal even more of BT's nicotine market.

Finally, ecigs are available online. The government and BT/BP would have a hell of a time policing all of the companies out there. They have a hard time policing tobacco sale even!

So, I'm really not worried about BT gaining a monopoly and pushing others out. It's a whole new world, you know?

 

[D103]

I really hope that you are correct on the monopoly thing - the more choices, the better; and in that scenario BT products could inadvertently pressure smaller vendors to improve and stay abreast the latest product innovations and safety standards.

 

[trying]

If you think about it who better to distribute an e-cig than a tobacco company. They already know the marketing and they are already placed in the age restricted section of the store.
If not a tobacco company then who ? A candy of food distributor ? Can you imagen the roar that would come from the Anti's and that would be directed at either of these types of distributors.

As for Prime Time, they retain their traditional tobacco line while adding a new market segment. While their 70,000 retail locations is impressive it is not near enough to try and muscle Phillip Morris or RJR out of the limited shelf space in retail stores in a straight tobacco vs tobacco battle. Now with a new product maybe Prime Time figures they can enter new markets that they otherwise would not be able to enter with the existing product line.

 

[Jas4:14]

Interesting. As found here:Lobelia

In 1993, the FDA prohibited the sale of lobeline smoking products. I wonder why Ruyan has chosen this method?

I did not read either article, but do know that lobelia is used for smoking cessation. The herb lives up to it's nickname... pukeweed.

Yes... I tried it once... in tea form ... along with every other method to find an alternative escape route from the chemicals in commercial tobacco.

It may work... I dunno... but spending the rest of the day overcome with nausea was enough to deter me from any further attempt. I went back to buying my Virginia Slims... until they jacked them up with FSC.

That's when I went e-cig. The ONLY alternate satisfying source of escape from multiple poisons/chemicals.

 

[trying]

I have also tried lobelia before and like President Clinton I did not inhale so I am curious to see how it works.
In liquid form it worked for me.
As for Nausea no problems, unlike the first time I tried chewing tobacco, major Nausea !!!!
I think the key for lobelia like tobacco is not to take too much at one time.

 

[Lithium1330]

I did not read either article, but do know that lobelia is used for smoking cessation. The herb lives up to it's nickname... pukeweed.

Yes... I tried it once... in tea form ... along with every other method to find an alternative escape route from the chemicals in commercial tobacco.

It may work... I dunno... but spending the rest of the day overcome with nausea was enough to deter me from any further attempt. I went back to buying my Virginia Slims... until they jacked them up with FSC.

That's when I went e-cig. The ONLY alternate satisfying source of escape from multiple poisons/chemicals.

The same happens with a tobacco tea, in certain doses nicotine causes the same effect, I have heard of people "faking" been sick by eating a cigarette for avoiding going to school.

 

[SlimXero]

I fully support the idea of big tobacco getting involved. This doesn't mean all things e-cig will be tainted by big't, We'll still have our venders and DIY abilities. E-cig's need big money backing them, even if its dirty money from the devil itself, it has the same power.

"Dirty money from the devil itself", however, comes with downsides. Big T supports adding such and such to e-liq, and because the FDA and Big T are spooning in a big bed of money, it soon becomes a required additive. Suppliers who refuse to dirty their liquid get edged off the market or, if big brother feels brash that week, comes right out and bans them. No, i'd really rather Big T keep it's nose where it belongs, and that's not in my PV.

 

[Janetda]

I think we have to face the fact that right now, we really don't KNOW what we're vaping. I know, it's pg, nicotine and flavor right? Seriously, how do we know for sure. Nothing is batch tested for contaminates. Even the most scrupulous vendors are going to make mistakes from time to time. At least if BT manufactured cartridges, we could expect good quality control. I'm a diy'er myself, but how do I know what's in my nic juice? I really don't. I would very much like to see numbering and batch testing on all my liquid. I've got nothing against mom & pop, I really love a lot of their juice, but do you really think there's no chance for contaminates in a home operation?

 

[trying]

I have been looking for posts about the Ruyan RAPP being seen in stores and given that the news story said Prime Time supplied more than 70,000 retail outlets I did not think the wait would be too long. However since I posted about the news story I have seen no such posts. Has anyone seen this new Ruyan product ?

 

[DarthVapr]

Sorry about that. My anger towwards Big Corporations got the better of me. But I'm not at all trying to justify my addiciton, I am totally responsible for that, always have been.
---snip---

None of us are totally responsible for our addictions, be it nicotine or caffeine. There are many public relations, behavior modification, and advertising groups that specialize in convincing us to try their products.

One of the most positive aspects of electronic cigarettes is that, without the cigarette smoke, nicotine users should become as socially accepted as caffeine users. The idea that we should somehow apologize for our use of nicotine is like coffee drinkers feeling guilty about their chemical of choice.

Nicotine without the smoke is actually beneficial in many ways, and is being studied for the treatment or prevention of a number of diseases and conditions, including Alzheimer's, Schizophrenia, Tourette's syndrome, according to Paul Newhouse, M.D., University of Vermont College of Medicine.

Just my two cents.

------------

Vape Free or Die!
V is for Vapor!

 

[DarthVapr]

---snip---

Now nicotine is available in a plethora of forms and products. BP may not have taken over BT's market, but they whittled it down considerably (consider in the 50's that nearly 1/2 of U.S males smoked and that of those who quit, 36% use NRTs long-term) and if BP gets permission to market their products as long-term and raise the nicotine content, they'll steal even more of BT's nicotine market.

---snip---

Did you ever consider the possibility that the makers of Nicotine Replacement Therapy products, with their 95% failure rate, actually serve Big Tobacco by recycling the smokers who failed to quit right back into the cigarette counter line? After getting their share of the profits, of course.

I mean, come on, where else could an entire industry sell something that only works as advertised for 5% of the consumers, and not only stay in business, but actually get FDA approval? Especially when you read about the number of suicides and other side-effects of some of the prescription drugs that are passed off as smoking cessation products. They are three sides of the same profit-making scam.

And they tell us that electronic cigarettes should be banned because they are unsafe? Who are they trying to help, the consumer / smoker who desperately wants and needs to quit sucking the 4,000 chemicals into their lungs, or each other, maintaining a dependable group of nicotine addicts to generate a steady revenue stream for all, including BT, BP, and all the state and federal governments who are as addicted to the tobacco tax revenue as smokers are to the nicotine?

The more we learn, the madder we should get. We are just like cattle waiting to be slaughtered for the profits of the fast-food industry. The electronic cigarette can save millions of lives, but it won't put money in their pockets, so its "not safe" for us to use. That's a load of crap.

And let us not forget BM (Big Medicine), including all the doctors and medical companies who profit from the treatment, not the cure, of all the many smoking-related diseases and conditions. Many are the same ones who now call for the banning of the electronic cigarette. Coincidence, or conspiracy? You figure it out. At least there are several medical and scientific professionals out there who have the integrity to get in front of a tv camera and tell the truth, that eCigs are a safer alternative to tobacco cigarettes, and can save millions of lives in the future.

Just my two cents. Maybe a dime.

-------------------

Vape Free or Die!
V is for Vapor!