Safer liquids?

[Ryedan]

Hello everyone!

I'm new to vaping and I've been doing a little research now that I am completely off of cigarettes and I keep coming across articles claiming that there are chemicals in the liquid that make vaping very dangerous for your health?
Well, I was wondering what brands of liquid you guys use? Are there more natural ones I should be looking for? Are there certain ingredients I should be avoiding? Are there liquids that are safer?
Thanks in advance!

As you can see from the responses here this is a fairly hot topic in the vape world currently. IMO it will stay this way for a while, mainly because I doubt we're going to get any good solid answers to most of the possible issues any time soon.

I make my own juices and use flavorings that are believed not to contain high amounts of diacetyl. The only organic flavoring I use is lemon extract, but only at 1 drop per 10 ml of juice. IMO synthetic flavorings are cleaner and thus likely safer. Making my own juices means I at least know what ingredients are in them. If I were buying ready made juice I would use suppliers who are safety conscious and do enough to make me satisfied their products are reasonably safe.

There are other safety issues with vaping too. I stop vaping and fix things if my juice starts to taste a bit off, burnt hits are not healthy. I don't overheat my coils to avoid the likelihood of nasty chemicals being created and use wicking materials I feel are reasonably safe. I use glass bottles to store juice liquids. I try not to vape too much juice per day.

All this works for me, but YMMV. You got some great links in this thread to more information on a few topics. All you can really do is learn what you can and make up your own mind about things.

Good luck with it

 

[NickVapesEh]

It has been said that high fructose corn syrup is very dangerous for your health even though its being used in a large amount of candies and foods. Also energy drinks with multiple chemical concoctions which are being consumed daily by very young children. There are more things you need to worry about. Synthetic pain killer are something you definitely should be worried about. Just remember that in one point in time they said that Marijuana was deadly.... hahahaha

 

[NickVapesEh]

It has been said that high fructose corn syrup is very dangerous for your health even though its being used in a large amount of candies and foods. Also energy drinks with multiple chemical concoctions which are being consumed daily by very young children. There are more things you need to worry about. Synthetic pain killer are something you definitely should be worried about. Just remember that in one point in time they said that "Marry Jane" was deadly.... hahahaha[/QUOTE

 

[metapuff]

join us in these threads. we are compiling a list.
Diketones-free vendors
The Diketone free tested vendors list

 

[skoony]

http://defendingscience.org/sites/default/files/upload/Kanwal.pdf

I have read this before. It points out the more vats with the oil and flavorings the higher the amount of diacetyl in the air.
The more vats,more diacetyl. The part that's never explained is of the three forms of diacetyl used which was used the
most or all three equally in each and every batch. I suspect (not believe) that if liquid diacetyl was used exclusively
the amounts of diacetyl in ambient air overall would be lower as in liquid form it would dissipate and disperse
more quickly and over a bigger area. the highest concentrations would still start at the vats and progress outward.
In paste form it's hard to say. I suspect (not believe) the thickness and weight of the mix may perhaps keep any
thing but diacetyl from traveling if at all very far and would still be in liquid form as the paste itself would be to heavy
to emit anything of consequence into ambient air. The powder when still dry in the 5 gallon buckets isn't the problem.
It's when pouring the powder into the buckets and pouring the buckets into the oil when you will get large amounts
dispersed into the air. I know this to be true having dumped crushed limestone,silica sand,perlites and titanium dioxide
in 50 pound bags into the mixers. Some of these ingredient by pallet loads for one batch. You virtually have a cloud
of dust hanging in the air. Depending on the relative weight of the dust particles it will settle (not disperse) fairly
quick. My point is it settles. It does not disperse to eventually dissipate to the point of being of little or no concern.
It's there to be tracked and blown about constantly about the area just to resettle once again to be tracked and blown
about the area.

Regards
Mike

 

[sparkky1]

I have read this before. It points out the more vats with the oil and flavorings the higher the amount of diacetyl in the air.
The more vats,more diacetyl. The part that's never explained is of the three forms of diacetyl used which was used the
most or all three equally in each and every batch. I suspect (not believe) that if liquid diacetyl was used exclusively
the amounts of diacetyl in ambient air overall would be lower as in liquid form it would dissipate and disperse
more quickly and over a bigger area. the highest concentrations would still start at the vats and progress outward.
In paste form it's hard to say. I suspect (not believe) the thickness and weight of the mix may perhaps keep any
thing but diacetyl from traveling if at all very far and would still be in liquid form as the paste itself would be to heavy
to emit anything of consequence into ambient air. The powder when still dry in the 5 gallon buckets isn't the problem.
It's when pouring the powder into the buckets and pouring the buckets into the oil when you will get large amounts
dispersed into the air. I know this to be true having dumped crushed limestone,silica sand,perlites and titanium dioxide
in 50 pound bags into the mixers. Some of these ingredient by pallet loads for one batch. You virtually have a cloud
of dust hanging in the air. Depending on the relative weight of the dust particles it will settle (not disperse) fairly
quick. My point is it settles. It does not disperse to eventually dissipate to the point of being of little or no concern.
It's there to be tracked and blown about constantly about the area just to resettle once again to be tracked and blown
about the area.

Regards
Mike

CDC - Flavorings-Related Lung Disease: Exposures to Flavoring Chemicals - NIOSH Workplace Safety and Health Topic

 

[sparkky1]

I have read this before. It points out the more vats with the oil and flavorings the higher the amount of diacetyl in the air.
The more vats,more diacetyl. The part that's never explained is of the three forms of diacetyl used which was used the
most or all three equally in each and every batch. I suspect (not believe) that if liquid diacetyl was used exclusively
the amounts of diacetyl in ambient air overall would be lower as in liquid form it would dissipate and disperse
more quickly and over a bigger area. the highest concentrations would still start at the vats and progress outward.
In paste form it's hard to say. I suspect (not believe) the thickness and weight of the mix may perhaps keep any
thing but diacetyl from traveling if at all very far and would still be in liquid form as the paste itself would be to heavy
to emit anything of consequence into ambient air. The powder when still dry in the 5 gallon buckets isn't the problem.
It's when pouring the powder into the buckets and pouring the buckets into the oil when you will get large amounts
dispersed into the air. I know this to be true having dumped crushed limestone,silica sand,perlites and titanium dioxide
in 50 pound bags into the mixers. Some of these ingredient by pallet loads for one batch. You virtually have a cloud
of dust hanging in the air. Depending on the relative weight of the dust particles it will settle (not disperse) fairly
quick. My point is it settles. It does not disperse to eventually dissipate to the point of being of little or no concern.
It's there to be tracked and blown about constantly about the area just to resettle once again to be tracked and blown
about the area.

Regards
Mike

Start at # 23 http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docket/review/docket245A/pdfs/245-A-Draft_Chapter8.pdf

 

[skoony]

CDC - Flavorings-Related Lung Disease: Exposures to Flavoring Chemicals - NIOSH Workplace Safety and Health Topic

Start at # 23 http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docket/review/docket245A/pdfs/245-A-Draft_Chapter8.pdf

Again where is it stated what particular part of the processes involved was the most directly relatable
to causing harm to the lungs? They measured varying amounts of diacetyl during various stages of
the process but do not indicate at which stage they believed harm was incurring other than assuming
more diacetyl = more harm. This of course could very well be true.

"Pneumoconiosis is one of a group of interstitial lung disease caused by breathing in certain kinds of dust particles that damage your lungs.

Because you are likely to encounter these dusts only in the workplace, pneumoconiosis is called an occupational lung disease.

Pneumoconiosis usually take years to develop. Because your lungs can't get rid of all these dust particles, they cause inflammation in your lungs that can eventually lead to scar tissue.
The disease appears in different forms, depending on the type of dust you inhale. One of the most common forms is black lung disease, also known as miner's lung. It’s caused by breathing in coal dust. Another is brown lung, which comes from working around dust from cotton or other fibers. Other types of dusts that can cause pneumoconiosis include silica and asbestos. Diacetyl, the compound used to give movie popcorn its buttery flavor, also can lead to the disease. This is known as popcorn lung."
Pneumoconiosis | Johns Hopkins Medicine Health Library

Regards
Mike

 

[sparkky1]

Again where is it stated what particular part of the processes involved was the most directly relatable
to causing harm to the lungs? They measured varying amounts of diacetyl during various stages of
the process but do not indicate at which stage they believed harm was incurring other than assuming
more diacetyl = more harm. This of course could very well be true.

"Pneumoconiosis is one of a group of interstitial lung disease caused by breathing in certain kinds of dust particles that damage your lungs.

Because you are likely to encounter these dusts only in the workplace, pneumoconiosis is called an occupational lung disease.

Pneumoconiosis usually take years to develop. Because your lungs can't get rid of all these dust particles, they cause inflammation in your lungs that can eventually lead to scar tissue.
The disease appears in different forms, depending on the type of dust you inhale. One of the most common forms is black lung disease, also known as miner's lung. It’s caused by breathing in coal dust. Another is brown lung, which comes from working around dust from cotton or other fibers. Other types of dusts that can cause pneumoconiosis include silica and asbestos. Diacetyl, the compound used to give movie popcorn its buttery flavor, also can lead to the disease. This is known as popcorn lung."
Pneumoconiosis | Johns Hopkins Medicine Health Library

Regards
Mike

Every case study I've looked at convey's how heat makes it more volatile, no matter what the related diagnosis ..............
Funny thing is 2-3 pentanedione is way more prevalent in today's juices than 2-3 butanedione, does it react the same for lung damage ?

 

[skoony]

Every case study I've looked at convey's how heat makes it more volatile, no matter what the related diagnosis ..............
Funny thing is 2-3 pentanedione is way more prevalent in today's juices than 2-3 butanedione, does it react the same for lung damage ?

I was under the impression applied heat put more diacatyl in the air.
Of course this could mean more volatile because of more diacetyl.
I am unaware of the differences between the two other than I have
heard they may be comparable.
Regards
Mike

 

[Moonface]

No one knows for sure. We are the test subjects. How do you feel? So Far so good? We are approximately 6 years into a live study.

 

[sparkky1]

I was under the impression applied heat put more diacatyl in the air.
Of course this could mean more volatile because of more diacetyl.
I am unaware of the differences between the two other than I have
heard they may be comparable.
Regards
Mike

A study comparing the concentration of diacetyl emissions from heated butter flavoring powders, pastes, and liquids found that the heated liquids and pastes produced higher airborne concentrations of diacetyl (26). However, substitution of a flavoring based only on its form as a powder should be done with caution. During a NIOSH investigation of a California flavoring manufacturing plant, the highest airborne exposure to diacetyl and acetoin occurred in the powder flavoring production area (7). Inhalation of respirable particles containing powdered flavoring substances may deliver flavoring substances deep into the lung. Further study is needed to determine the effects of these particles
Safety and Health Information Bulletins | Occupational Exposure to Flavoring Substances: Health Effects and Hazard Control

 

[skoony]

A study comparing the concentration of diacetyl emissions from heated butter flavoring powders, pastes, and liquids found that the heated liquids and pastes produced higher airborne concentrations of diacetyl (26). However, substitution of a flavoring based only on its form as a powder should be done with caution. During a NIOSH investigation of a California flavoring manufacturing plant, the highest airborne exposure to diacetyl and acetoin occurred in the powder flavoring production area (7). Inhalation of respirable particles containing powdered flavoring substances may deliver flavoring substances deep into the lung. Further study is needed to determine the effects of these particles
Safety and Health Information Bulletins | Occupational Exposure to Flavoring Substances: Health Effects and Hazard Control

Quite right. I am assuming they are assuming the more diacetyl released into the air means more toxicity
by dosage. I have been speculating perhaps (not for sure) it may be more a problem of the form of diacetyl
ones exposed to. It may be all three forms. I am not saying it isn't just that I suspect it might not be the
whole story.
Regards
Mike

 

[sparkky1]

Quite right. I am assuming they are assuming the more diacetyl released into the air means more toxicity
by dosage. I have been speculating perhaps (not for sure) it may be more a problem of the form of diacetyl
ones exposed to. It may be all three forms. I am not saying it isn't just that I suspect it might not be the
whole story.
Regards
Mike

That quote I sent sounds a little confusing to say the least, but at least they are acknowledging other chemicals to the equation ...............