Screen voltage display

[sonicbomb]

Regulated mod

Atomiser side - For a given wattage, a higher resistance coil will need more volts, a lower resistance coil will need more amps. The regulator chip will take care of this balance for you, it may also display this data though it is of absolutely no use to the user. This has no influence what is happening electrically on the battery side of the regulator.

60 watts at 3.0 Ω = 13.42 volts and 4.47 amps
60 watts at 2.0 Ω = 10.95 volts and 5.48 amps
60 watts at 1.0 Ω = 7.75 volts and 7.75 amps <---
60 watts at 0.5 Ω = 5.48 volts and 10.95 amps
60 watts at 0.25 Ω = 3.87 volts and 15.49 amps
60 watts at 0.1 Ω = 2.45 volts and 24.49 amps

The balance of volts and amps is equal at 1 ohms, increasing with a linear ratio above that. Below 1 ohm the ratio of amps to volts increases exponentially. I'm not an electrical engineer or a physicist or a chip designer, so I cannot explain why this is.
This is why regulators have pre-programmed coil resistance range limitations.


Battery side - The regulator chip will increase the amount of amps it draws as the voltage in the battery decreases to maintain the selected wattage. The regulator can measure the remaining voltage in the battery. It uses this information to calculate how many amps to draw to provide the selected wattage, what value to show on the battery meter, when to cutoff operation, and depending on the mod it will reduce the wattage to allow for detected battery voltage sag.

The regulator does not know the amp limits of the battery. However if it reacts to voltage sag then this may serve as a form of protection from drawing to much current from the battery, though you would be a fool to rely on this.

 

[Joe Vito]

Regulated mod

Atomiser side - For a given wattage, a higher resistance coil will need more volts, a lower resistance coil will need more amps. The regulator chip will take care of this balance for you, it may also display this data though it is of absolutely no use to the user. This has no influence what is happening electrically on the battery side of the regulator.

60 watts at 3.0 Ω = 13.42 volts and 4.47 amps
60 watts at 2.0 Ω = 10.95 volts and 5.48 amps
60 watts at 1.0 Ω = 7.75 volts and 7.75 amps <---
60 watts at 0.5 Ω = 5.48 volts and 10.95 amps
60 watts at 0.25 Ω = 3.87 volts and 15.49 amps
60 watts at 0.1 Ω = 2.45 volts and 24.49 amps

The balance of volts and amps is equal at 1 ohms, increasing with a linear ratio above that. Below 1 ohm the ratio of amps to volts increases exponentially. I'm not an electrical engineer or a physicist or a chip designer, so I cannot explain why this is.
This is why regulators have pre-programmed coil resistance range limitations.


Battery side - The regulator chip will increase the amount of amps it draws as the voltage in the battery decreases to maintain the selected wattage. The regulator can measure the remaining voltage in the battery. It uses this information to calculate how many amps to draw to provide the selected wattage, what value to show on the battery meter, when to cutoff operation, and depending on the mod it will reduce the wattage to allow for detected battery voltage sag.

The regulator does not know the amp limits of the battery. However if it reacts to voltage sag then this may serve as a form of protection from drawing to much current from the battery, though you would be a fool to rely on this.

Thanks so much. I guess the question I have after reading this is, those example numbers you gave, those seem to be numbers from a single battery device am I correct?

 

[KenD]

Thanks so much. I guess the question I have after reading this is, those example numbers you gave, those seem to be numbers from a single battery device am I correct?

Those numbers are regardless of the number of batteries. They're on the atomizer side of the equation, no relevance to the amp draw at the battery.

Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk

 

[sonicbomb]

That's fundamentally the point. The mod draws power from the battery/s - it sees two batteries or more as shared resource regardless of how they are wired.
Which is why as the wattage you select increases, so should the number of batteries you use.

 

[Joe Vito]

Okay, so just to clarify, if I did my calculations for current in a regulated mod from the tutorials, than I don’t have to worry about the voltage drop or anything, I’ll still be within my limits? Because from my understanding, resistance didn’t mean anything I’m a regulated mod, but from those numbers you just posted, it seems as if it is possible to build too low, when I thought it really didn’t matter

 

[Joe Vito]

Those numbers are regardless of the number of batteries. They're on the atomizer side of the equation, no relevance to the amp draw at the battery.

Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk

So why are they there then? It kind of scares me to see those numbers are over my amp limits, but when I run the equation from Mooch video I’m well working my amps. I’m so confused

 

[Baditude]

Okay, so just to clarify, if I did my calculations for current in a regulated mod from the tutorials, than I don’t have to worry about the voltage drop or anything, I’ll still be within my limits? Because from my understanding, resistance didn’t mean anything I’m a regulated mod, but from those numbers you just posted, it seems as if it is possible to build too low, when I thought it really didn’t matter

The regulating chip has an operating range of coil resistance, a lower ohm cutoff and a higher ohm cutoff. As long as you are using a battery(s) of appropriate amperage (CDR), you can use any coil within that operating range.

For example, the specification page for the eLeaf Pico 25:

Weight: 143.2g
E-liquid capacity: 2ml
Output wattage: 1-85W
Maximum charging current: 2A
Maximum output current: 50A
Thread type: 510 thread
Battery type: high-rate 18650 battery
(Continuous discharge current should be above 25A)
Output mode: VW/Bypass/TC(Ni,Ti,SS,TCR-M1,M2,M3) mode
Resistance range:

0.05-1.5ohm (TC modes)
0.1-3.5ohm (VW mode)​

 

[Joe Vito]

The regulating chip has an operating range of coil resistance, a lower ohm cutoff and a higher ohm cutoff. As long as you are using a battery(s) of appropriate amperage (CDR), you can use any coil within that operating range.

For example, the specification page for the eLeaf Pico 25:

Weight: 143.2g
E-liquid capacity: 2ml
Output wattage: 1-85W
Maximum charging current: 2A
Maximum output current: 50A
Thread type: 510 thread
Battery type: high-rate 18650 battery
(Continuous discharge current should be above 25A)
Output mode: VW/Bypass/TC(Ni,Ti,SS,TCR-M1,M2,M3) mode
Resistance range:

0.05-1.5ohm (TC modes)
0.1-3.5ohm (VW mode)​

I get that...but let’s say i use a 0.10 at 100 watts...that’s going to be 30+amps which are more than my batteries can handle. But if I use the calculations from mooch it says basically I can run anything 150 and below...those numbers sonicbomb posted now have me completely lost...

 

[stols001]

Okay, I was deeply confused on this matter myself as far as resistance/battery, maybe a really simple example will work. Let's say I have a 0.5 coil tank and I want to put it on a provari 2.5, well, it's going to immediately give me an error code, saying it can't support the build. Newer and more powerful mods are designed so they can fire much lower, but you do need to check your manufacturer's specs or instruction manual to find it.

The only other way resistance affects wattage is that if you build quite low, it's pretty likely you will need more wattage to get a satisfactory vape (and the other instance might be if you have a lot of metal in your build, which will also require MORE wattage to fire the vape, regardless of the resistance) well, that is how resistance affects wattage--- can you safely (and satisfyingly) FIRE that wattage for that resistance.

The lower (and more mass build) resistance, the more you will have to match the right batteries to your mod to support said wattage (and/or move from one battery mod to two battery mod to improve overall battery life) for a long enough period of time to not be draining your battery in say, 10 minutes.

So, safety is less at issue, other than the more wattage you use in a regulated mod, the more powerful (amp) batteries you will need. Also, some mods drastically overestimate their board's capacities, like some of the "220 watt 2 battery mods) it's not going to be realistically possible to find two batteries that will actually fire that wattage for any period of time. So, with a regulated mod, if you need more wattage, you are going to go for high amp batteries and if you want more run time, you can sacrifice wattage for longer run time.

The mod should (theoretically) refuse to fire if it's being pushed too hard, and (theoretically) your batteries will just drain and the mod will go dead.... Except if you overstrain your batteries OR mod by consistently redlining them then bad things will happen, like poor battery life, mod being strained to capacity, shorter run times and etc.

So, resistance matters on a regulated mod, just in a slightly different way than on an unregulated mod. Bad things can still happen with a regulated mod, and they are much less likely to unless pushed to their limits over long periods of time.

I have no clue if that made any sense, but any battery post I'm just gonna start saying "Batitude said it better."

Anna

 

[Joe Vito]

I have a dual series regulated 150 mod, so I take 150, divide it by 2=75, 75 divided by 3.2, divided by 0.9=26.04, which I thought meant that I can use whatever build I want (as long as its in my mods specs) and fire it all the way up to 150 if I want, as long as my amps match that 26.04

 

[Baditude]

I get that...but let’s say i use a 0.10 at 100 watts...that’s going to be 30+amps which are more than my batteries can handle. But if I use the calculations from mooch it says basically I can run anything 150 and below...those numbers sonicbomb posted now have me completely lost

Could it be what is confusing you is how a regulated mod is capable of generating more output than the limits of the battery? I don't understand it enough myself to explain how it works, but the regulating chip has buck/boost converters. A buck converter to regulate the output to be less than the battery output. A boost converter to regulate the output to be more than the battery output. I think it may have something to do with PWM (pulse width modulation).

This differs from a mechanical mod, where the output is entirely dependent upon the battery voltage and the resistance of the coil.

Might be a good new topic to have the techies explain how a regulated mod uses boost converter technology.
Boost technology in a regulated mod; who can explain how it works?

 

[sonicbomb]

Jeeze Joe, you're making this really hard work (or are you perhaps trolling us?).
Forget about the numbers on the screen, forget volts and amps, forget about series or parallel, these things just seem to confuse you. Let's try to make this as absolutely simple as possible.

Try this approach -

You have a dual battery mod capable of 150 watts. To run it at 150 watts you need two batteries capable of supplying 75 watts each. OK?

A 20 amp battery is good for 60 watts - 60 + 60 is 120. So you need a battery with a higher amp limit, or you could choose not to exceed 120 watts.

A 25 amp battery is good for 75 watts - 75 + 75 is 150. Bingo we have a winner!


20 amp (60W) batteries -
LG 18650HG2
Samsung 30Q
Samsung 18650-25R

25 amp (75W) batteries -
Sony 18650VTC5A
LG 18650 HD4


Don't over complicate it, don't worry your pretty little head any more. Just stick to the rules above and you will be safe and vaping happy.

 

[Joe Vito]

Jeeze Joe, you're making this really hard work (or are you perhaps trolling us?).
Forget about the numbers on the screen, forget volts and amps, forget about series or parallel, these things just seem to confuse you. Let's try to make this as absolutely simple as possible.

Try this approach -

You have a dual battery mod capable of 150 watts. To run it at 150 watts you need two batteries capable of supplying 75 watts each. OK?

A 20 amp battery is good for 60 watts - 60 + 60 is 120. So you need a battery with a higher amp limit, or you could choose not to exceed 120 watts.

A 25 amp battery is good for 75 watts - 75 + 75 is 150. Bingo we have a winner!


20 amp (60W) batteries -
LG 18650HG2
Samsung 30Q
Samsung 18650-25R

25 amp (75W) batteries -
Sony 18650VTC5A
LG 18650 HD4


Don't over complicate it, don't worry your pretty little head any more. Just stick to the rules above and you will be safe and vaping happy.

I get that dude but then when you posted this, I got super confused

60 watts at 3.0 Ω = 13.42 volts and 4.47 amps
60 watts at 2.0 Ω = 10.95 volts and 5.48 amps
60 watts at 1.0 Ω = 7.75 volts and 7.75amps <---
60 watts at 0.5 Ω = 5.48 volts and 10.95 amps
60 watts at 0.25 Ω = 3.87 volts and 15.49 amps
60 watts at 0.1 Ω = 2.45 volts and 24.49 amps

This seems to completely contradict things

 

[sonicbomb]

You need to read what is written.

Atomiser side - For a given wattage, a higher resistance coil will need more volts, a lower resistance coil will need more amps. The regulator chip will take care of this balance for you, it may also display this data though it is of absolutely no use to the user. This has no influence what is happening electrically on the battery side of the regulator.

I was trying to expand your understanding, but it seems again I just muddied the water.

 

[Joe Vito]

You need to read what is written.


I was trying to expand your understanding, but it seems again I just muddied the water.

I’m sorry I know I’m very difficult to work with, and I promise you I am not trolling. I get everything...the only thing I don’t get is why you posted those numbers if they have absolutely no meaning

...those numbers make sense to me on a mech mod because they support ohms law

 

[sonicbomb]

It's not directly relevant, but it's interesting from an engineering perspective. I'm interested in what happens under the hood.

 

[KenD]

So why are they there then? It kind of scares me to see those numbers are over my amp limits, but when I run the equation from Mooch video I’m well working my amps. I’m so confused

No good reason that I can see. Particularly the amp display is nothing but confusing for users who don't know that it's the output amps.

Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk

 

[DaveP]

Voltage and amperage numbers on a regulated mod display of what's delivered to the tank are useless. As far as I'm concerned they should be banned as they cause more confusion than anything else.

What's useful is a chip that cuts off the vape when a given amperage is pulled from the battery. That's all mystery if the manufacturer doesn't disclose the algorithm limits. The problem there is that you can't trust the published ratings on all batteries, especially those that are repackaged and rebranded with off the wall performance numbers.

My Eleaf Invoke shows 2.77v/3.4A delivered to the coil at 10W. I have no idea what my dual 15A/3000ma 30Q's are delivering to the electronics at whatever discharge level the battery is currently at. I just know that my source current isn't concerning at all to the batteries I'm using at tootle puffer levels. Not everyone who vapes understands the relationship between battery supply voltage and the output circuitry.

 

[bwh79]

The important number (for safety) is actually the amps that the chip is pulling from the battery. Sadly I don't know of a single mod on the market that shows that number.

On a regulated mod, the watts number is the one you should really be looking at. Max watts the device can produce (or max you will be using) divided by the device's cutoff voltage (or use 3.0v as an approximation if you don't know your particular device's actual cutoff voltage) gives you the max amps you will be drawing from the battery. For a 20A cell and 3.0v cutoff, this works out to a "speed limit" of about 60W per cell. You don't need to know the device's output voltage, or the atomizer's resistance, to do this calculation.

 

[bwh79]

So you just have to have some faith that the mod maker designed the chip protection circuits well enough to not pull more amps from the battery than it can supply safely.

If the mod maker doesn't know what battery you're going to put in, how can they design it not to pull more amps than that mystery cell can handle? It's up to you, the user, to know your amp limit of your chosen cell and not select a wattage that will exceed that limit.