Secondhand smoke is harmless

[Rotowoman]

When I first saw this thread, I knew it was going to get lengthy. It's a woman's intuitition thing, you know. All right, let me be honest. It just smelled of troll to me.

I've actually read through the whole thing and had a few laughs here and there.

Now, please keep in my mind, that my observation is strictly from my own point of view, without any scientific study or links to any scientific study. Personally, I've never been fond of second hand cigarette smoke, even from myself. I've been known to choke on it, stink from it, and even occasionally burn my own eyes from it. If I'm in a room filled with it, my eyes will certainly burn. My own instinct and common sense has told me that it's not good for me, just as smoking a cigarette isn't good for me.

There is no scientific study that can convince me that second hand cigarette smoke is totally harmless. There is no scientific study that can convince me that small amounts of second hand cigarette smoke will cause disease in and of itself. Disease can be caused by any number and combination of factors.

All of this is strictly my opinion. Carry on folks. I have things to do.

 

[Jode]

What a funny world we live in. I can almost picture a bunch of men and women in suits sitting around a table and laughing while they decide what to feed the world for lies next. I guess in the end it makes little difference whether this is true or not to me. As somebody said earlier in thread we all die from something and many times the actual root of it is a combination of things. I have seen people that are health nuts drop of heart attacks, brain aneurysms or get in accidents at too young of an age and I have seen many people that drink, smoke, and live what we are programmed to see as an unhealthy life style live into their 90's. There are many areas that fall into this same argument. Our diets are always questioned.....eggs are bad for your heart, no they're not. Eat grapefruit, no don't it causes this that or the other thing. Blah blah blah. We chose to believe the information that suits us at the time. If I want to smoke I am going to find evidence that supports that choice. If I want to vape I will do the same. The same goes for big business of any type. If they want to sell their product they will report good things about it and bad things about the competition, so how can anybody really sort through any of it. We may never know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop.

 

[sub4me]

Jode, I agree with your common sense and I find that lacking in so many posts it nice to hear someone post with real thinking.

 

[The Cloud Minder]

No intelligent mother would take her baby to hang out in a smoke fill room.

That's why I take OTHER people's babies to hang out in smoke filled rooms.

 

[CollectiveDeveloper]

She is absolutly correct. I guess my point to everything i posted is there is so much deciet and corruption in the world today. That its very hard to know what to believe. Its so crazy to think wow there are people using horrible things like cancer and death as tools for monitory gain. Its really sickening that we cant just trust what the news and government tell us. And the news stations all pose as a caring voice for the people to receive factual information that effects us, and the government supposed to be by the people for the people. which is simply just no longer true.

I agree with yall. I despise the smell of smoke now. Id never ever have my children around second hand smoke regardless if it is proven to cause cancer or anything else.
My granddfather had emphasima had to carry 02 tank for the last 10 years of his life, yet continued to smoke, I watched him die in the hospital screaming trying to get air into his lungs terrified . in his early 60's. So for sure smoking is a nasty thing that will lead to suffering. But dont use that as way to get my support while you tax the bajesus of the tobacco companies pretending its because u care when really its because its the most efficient and lucrative way to line your pockets with dirty money.


wheat bread was said to be good for you. Now gluten is bad for you??
artificial sweaters were better then sugar now they cause cancer?
nicotine was said to be one of the worst things ever now when removed from tobacco it actually benefits the human brain?

Haha hard to know whats good for us now or not isnt it?

 

[sub4me]

Common sense goes along way when using any product, tobacco or e liquid included.

 

[Tonythefiddler]

I really don't get how people can support tobacco in any way. THEY are the ones with the fat pockets who spread lies. How can someone really say the smoke coming off a cigarette, which is exactly the same as what's being inhaled, combined with the smoke from the smokers lungs (slightly less bad I'm sure) doesn't cause any damage? Look up studies not done by BT. Maybe go to real-cig forum or something, sick of PTNZ. As for wheat being bad it's just another case of people tryin to line their pockets from diet books and "the truth about gluten" or whatever. Science is science and it's on us to believe the real stuff.

 

[Jman8]

When I grew up in household where both parents smoked and you could go into most public places (includes hospitals) and smoking was very much allowed, I don't recall being constantly bothered in these situations. The times I do recall being annoyed was when smoke was blown directly into my face, and even then was seconds of annoyance, not a constant stream of annoyance while in that situation. I recall when I was very young (like 5 to 10) feeling sad that my parents smoked and seemed to not have any control over it, but don't recall thinking they are harming me or I feel harmed.

I say this because it is clear we lived in a society (for a long while before I was even born) where SHS was virtually everywhere. I often think that if SHS is truly causative of dangerous illnesses, that humanity (at least in America) ought to have experienced a very noticeable drop in the population given the amount of SHS that was essentially everywhere indoors. Or imagine if we went back to that right now where smokers can smoke everywhere indoors without question. And people (non-smokers) didn't avoid them but went about business as usual. I think in today's world, we'd think those people would be gravely harmed and if we allowed that for say a decade, it would gravely affect the population in a noticeable way.

I truly do believe the issue here has something (to a lot) to do with us being told, as a society, that SHS is harmful/dangerous. And then what was once normal environment indoors became overly annoying, place to surely avoid if you are being sensible, and situations where if we collectively allow them to continue will hurt everyone in that situation, very badly. We clearly now live in a society where if I (as dual user) lit up a smoke in room say the size of a McDonalds, that people would be very nervous about how it would impact them, and possibly have a lawsuit that would be rather easy to show they were gravely endangered. I realize we could have mini disputes around size of room and amount of smoking, but the basic idea of SHS being anywhere in our non-smoking utopia would be treated as akin to someone known to have ebola just walked into same room with you and what do you think the wise choice is for you.

I very much think this relates to vaping because we already live in a vaping world where people do the (fake) cough and have data (anti-vaping articles) to show that your exhaled vapor that is put into the same space as them, even if it is a rather large room, will gravely affect them. For some people (but not a majority) this applies to outdoor situations. If it is 1 vapor in wide open space outdoors, probably very few people if any would take issue with that. But if it were say 8 vapers hanging around outdoors near entrance of say a movie theater, I think lots of coughing and considerations of grave harm would be going through (some of) these people's minds. Which for sure stems from the SHS issue, but is also representative of how ANTZ-like data is permeating our culture.

Some vapers want to say, "oh no no no. Here read this study by guy on our side to let you know you really have nothing to worry about with my exhaled vapor that I'm blowing somewhere near you in this outdoor space." As if that will be enough for all of society, trained to hate on SHS, to allow vaping (even outdoors). And when someone shows even vapers scientific study that says you have nothing to worry about regarding 'dangers of SHS' (even while there is technically degree of harm, just as there is with EVERYTHING ON THIS PLANET), even vapers, aka ex-smokers, are like "I don't buy it." And prattle on about how it is just annoying and no one should ever do this anywhere around other people because, we could all die from this. Science has said so.

And yet, these people can't back their claims up with actual science. Which is why I routinely find this type of debate laughable and sad that we've allowed our non-critical thinking skills to devolve so much, so fast. If agenda driven scientists says it is true, then it must be true.

 

[WattWick]

So now anecdotes trump science

 

[Jman8]

Now "science" has become anecdotal.

If there's an association with something, let me tell you a story of how that equals causation.

 

[bluecat]

I really don't get how people can support tobacco in any way. THEY are the ones with the fat pockets who spread lies. How can someone really say the smoke coming off a cigarette, which is exactly the same as what's being inhaled, combined with the smoke from the smokers lungs (slightly less bad I'm sure) doesn't cause any damage? Look up studies not done by BT. Maybe go to real-cig forum or something, sick of PTNZ. As for wheat being bad it's just another case of people tryin to line their pockets from diet books and "the truth about gluten" or whatever. Science is science and it's on us to believe the real stuff.

How many years was the world flat?

How many years did they put Flouride in the drinking water?

How many years was Asbestos used as an insulator?

How many years has mankind been smoking.

Man made global warming well at least until all the files were shredded?

Look back at history on what scientist have stated... They are always right until new science comes out.

Does second hand smoke make one healthier? No unless they are an aberration. You are not going to drop over dead from it either. Will it cause other condition to become exacerbated? Maybe maybe not. Not too long ago doctors promoted cigarette smoking as healthy... You can enjoy being spoonfed information by organizations that only want government subsidies. I prefer to also use my own brain. Maybe I am wrong maybe I right but that is fine, at least it was my choice made from educated research.

I have no doubt smoking is not healthy for a person. I also do not believe it is as bad as they say.. especially second hand smoke. (many things we do are unhealthy.. choose your poison...

 

[WattWick]

Now "science" has become anecdotal.

If there's an association with something, let me tell you a story of how that equals causation.

Save it 'till after you address my earlier post where I point out that your own sources don't back up your claims.

 

[bluecat]

Ok. So what is the hidden agenda? To ultimately outlaw tobacco? Seems they'd lose a lot of money doing that.

So what exactly would the government have to gain by propagating the dangers of tobacco? If anything I'd think they would stand to gain more by refuting evidence showing the harmful effects of tobacco.

I'm obviously missing something here.

Maybe another medicare bribe errrr lawsuit in the future.

 

[Jman8]

Save it 'till after you address my earlier post where I point out that your own sources don't back up your claims.

They do back up the claims I made. Please provide specific quotes and link to posts where you feel this is not true.

 

[Lilvapie]

For those that wish to call this trolling and avoid my first post and not read the links. Or choose to avoid the links that some of the other people have posted and continue to respond with your intuitive conclusions. Because intuition has served us great in past, right? Wrong. These type of people, with their unscientific ways of thinking, will do no good for this earth.

 

[DC2]

I can almost picture a bunch of men and women in suits sitting around a table and laughing while they decide what to feed the world for lies next.

This is pretty much what happens everywhere, all the time.
Even at your own dinner table.

Just last night I was discussing with my wife what excuse I needed to get a day off work at the last minute.
But we weren't wearing suits or anything like that.

 

[DC2]

I really don't get how people can support tobacco in any way. THEY are the ones with the fat pockets who spread lies.

I feel the same way about Big Pharma and Big Government.
But it took a lot of learning to come to the conclusion that they are all doing the same thing.

And then it was an easy step to understand that EVERYONE does the same thing, all day long.
Because really, it's just human nature.

 

[firerat]

Maybe another medicare bribe errrr lawsuit in the future.

So that's the big conspiracy then? Ok.

 

[DC2]

What I find funny is the fear of calling things a conspiracy.
Because damn near everything is a conspiracy.

Again, it's just human nature to plan how to get what you want.
And if that includes lies, then well, it includes lies.

 

[Davey59]

The "conspiracy" if that is the label you are comfortable with is REVENUE. Demonize, legislate, tax, control and place fines. Time tested proven method with an extremely high success rate.

The way people latch on to and parrot bad science putting it mildly, repeat the lies and defend the governments complicities, ignore certain individuals greed and self promotion think Al Gore without a thought to the general wellbeing of the country makes me think of Stockholm syndrome..

Fools and posers seem to be in the majority and easily steered to the next target.