Severe anxiety, panic, and rage

[Ghalenlee]

Couple years ago I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder with agoraphobic and ocd features. It got so bad that I had to go on long-term disability leave from my employer and was almost entirely shut in. I started taking an SSRI and anti-anxiety meds at this time. My smoking at this time, on the meds, dropped dramatically, from about 2 packs a day to half a pack a day.

As luck would have it, long-term disability ran out, couldn't get on social security disability and there was no way I was well enough to go back to work. So no more insurance, no more meds. Smoking right back up to 2 packs a day.

I always knew I was self-medicating with the cigarettes but never knew exactly why.

About 3 weeks or so ago, I got my PV and started using that in conjunction with smoking. 2 weeks ago, I cut out the cigarettes entirely. I hardly have any desire for a cigarette but everything else has been getting steadily worse.

I'm vaping a combo pg/vg liquid between 11 and 18 mgs all day as I can. I don't think I'm overdosing on nicotine, I don't think I'm dehydrated. The only caffeinated beverage I drink is coffee and I have not reduced my intake of that but have literally added about a gallon and a half of water throughout the day. I don't feel dried out.

I feel like I have the flu, muscle aches, hot and cold flashes, no appetite. Anxiety attacks have been steadily increasing since I dropped the cigs and last night it was so bad that I felt like a caged beast, I wanted to yell and scream and cry and lash out and break stuff (it would have been very satisfying to throw something at my boyfriend's head because he was annoying the snot out of me by just watching tv and being within 20 feet of me), and I just felt so full of rage that it's a good thing I was home and nobody talked to me. It was very very frightening. I resorted to taking some of my klonopin (anti-anxiety med, I kept a stash when I knew my insurance was going to run out) and passing out.

I tried doing a search for symptoms of maoi withdrawal and I guess I just don't have the patience to look anymore. Does this sound like what I'm suffering from? I know you all are not DRs and I should probably go to the ER but I have no insurance and while they have to treat me all they'll do is give me some valium and I can do that at home. Should I just go buy a pack of cigarettes and see if that helps? I hate to but I hate having these anxiety attacks and feeling so full of rage and I don't have too many of my pills left. Is there something else I can try other than cigarettes?

I'm sure there are numerous posts on this and I know there's a search button, but I really am too antsy and out of sorts to sit here and read and try to find info. And why did it take two weeks to get to this point, I would have thought it would be more immediate?

 

[Caesarea]

You could try out some snus to use between vapes.
Lots of folks do both.
Best,

C.

Check out the smokeless alternatives subforum.

 

[beckah54]

Let me state up front....I AM NOT A DOCTOR OR MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL.......but it does sound like nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Maybe an analog or two wouldn't hurt! Could be your nic strength is too low to totally replace the analogs.

Again, this is just an opinion. If the feelings continue, get thee to the ER.

Good luck.

 

[martha1014]

I'm not quite sure what your symptoms are from. Are they the same symptoms you hava back when you were having problems. Do you still take the anti-aniexty and SSRI meds. If you are not taking your meds maybe its a return of you former illness. You need to get medical records and go to a doctor for treatment. If you have enough physician documentation and this illness prevents you from working,(is sounds like it does) you could reapply for SS Diability benefits. You should get the physician to write a letter stating you are unable to work due to the symptoms. By getting disability benefits you will be able to get Medicare health insurance and drug coverage. I think having to pay for physician visits would be a good investment if you are approved for diabililty.

I am bipolar and was approved the first time I applied. I had all of my records and physician's statement in order before I applied. They say only 40% of people applying are approved initially. If denied the first time reapply and even get a lawyer to handle your case. After all of the deniials and reaplying a majority of people are approved.

You may be suffering from withdrawal but I really don't think withdrawal would cause this severe syptoms especially since you are still getting some nicotine.

 

[Ghalenlee]

I'm not quite sure what your symptoms are from. Are they the same symptoms you hava back when you were having problems. Do you still take the anti-aniexty and SSRI meds. If you are not taking your meds maybe its a return of you former illness. You need to get medical records and go to a doctor for treatment. If you have enough physician documentation and this illness prevents you from working,(is sounds like it does) you could reapply for SS Diability benefits. You should get the physician to write a letter stating you are unable to work due to the symptoms. By getting disability benefits you will be able to get Medicare health insurance and drug coverage. I think having to pay for physician visits would be a good investment if you are approved for diabililty.

I am bipolar and was approved the first time I applied. I had all of my records and physician's statement in order before I applied. They say only 40% of people applying are approved initially. If denied the first time reapply and even get a lawyer to handle your case. After all of the deniials and reaplying a majority of people are approved.

You may be suffering from withdrawal but I really don't think withdrawal would cause this severe syptoms especially since you are still getting some nicotine.

Yes, these are similar symptoms from before I went on disability leave and started meds. I've been off meds for well over a year, with only slight anxiety problems from time to time. The only difference between now and say six months ago is that I am not smoking cigarettes.

I guess my question is, is there enough MAOIs in cigarettes to experience withdrawal from the MAOIs themselves and what are those signs of withdrawal?

I'm doing okay today. A little edgy and a little achey but I haven't had any rage like feelings yet.

 

[olderthandirt]

Hey galen
The presence and role played of MAOI's in tobacco and associated products got quite a work over in this recent thread:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html#post670930

Always re-asserting we aren't docs, are not attempting to diagnose etc.,
Caesarea has a plausible suggestion with the snus. If there is a mini-mart or smoke shop around give em' a call and see if they have any of the Camel Snus. It may well help take the edge off until your able to get some form of professional feedback.

Best o' luck

 

[four2109]

I agree with the snus approach until you have had time to read through the thread olderthandirt referenced. I didn't realize what was going on til I read that htread. I went with an herbal supplement, but you shouldn't do that if you are taking meds. Didn't hit me right away either.

 

[Ghetto_Cowgirl]

I'm on anti-depressants myself, 20mg per day. I had those feelings when I started vaping, I put down the cigs the day I received my first PV. IMO I would say its with-drawls from the other additives in cigarettes. No one here is a Dr though so take what we say with a grain of salt. I did however start feeling better a week or so after I quit smoking, if that helps any. I guess all the other chemicals had to leave my body. I find if I go without my AD meds I get those feelings so I try not forget the anymore

Oh symptoms I had were headaches, nausea, really lethargic, mean as all hell too. Yet I didn't crave a cig, was strange. As I said, the symptoms went, I'm at 3 months now smoke free and feel just fine provided I don't miss a pill.

 

[nyabzns]

I've had Panic attacks for going on 19 years now. Your symptoms sound like withdraws to me as well. It's worse with an anxiety disorder.

This might sound stupid but maybe buying a pack of your favorite smokes might help. Just do this, tell yourself you'll try not to open them and just vape.

The very fact that you have a pack in case you want one could help.It has helped me before.

 

[cassavetes]

I had flu like symptoms when I quit. Lasted about 3 weeks. I could hardly get out of bed to make it to work.

I was diagnosed with OCD 2 years ago and have been medicated since. The medication helps, but smoking was always a quick fix for me.

Since quitting traditional smokes my OCD got to the point where I had to drink to excess in order to stop my brain from recycling obsessive thoughts and worries.

To friends and coworkers I'm perfectly healthy. For the most part I'm able to control my rituals/symptoms to the point that they don't interfere with my day to day activities.

 

[jaspry]

I have suffered anciety as long as I can remember.

But I've had extreme panic attacks since quitting vaping/smoking.

I stopped vaping after ~3 months because of problems with my throat. Dr. thinks it's reaction from the PG. So I went cold turkey (no use going back to analogs, wanted to eventually quit anyways).

I've been experiencing muscle aches, chills, sweats, panic, rage, anxiety. General tiredness. Muscle weakness. Feeling spaced out.

I'm 8 days since my last vape, 6 days since my last analog.

Dr. said I am experiencing a lot of nic withdrawal symptoms. Gave me 5 days' worth of Xanax to help cope, but I don't think 5 days will be enough.

The problem with my throat is still continuing, 3 days into antibiotics. Hoping and praying Im fully recovered by the 7th day when my antibiotic prescription runs out. My neck is swollen and a bit tender. Feels like I have the flu.

I'm sensitive/allergic to PG and vaped for THREE MONTHS while my physical condition deteriorated before I quit altogether.
Going through a physical battle right now. The anxiety is so bad, my thoughts race and I get into an anxiety attack thinking that I'm diseased or something. It's terrible. But it's proooobably just the lack of nicotine.

Good luck. Writing helps the anxiety which is why I vented, lol.

 

[a2dcovert]

You guys are not alone in this. I have been off of cigarettes since May. I still get withdrawal symptoms and most of the things mentioned here. I am convinced that the nicotine isn't the only element of smoking that we are addicted to. There is a missing link that needs to be discovered. I hope that someone will discover what we are missing.

I don't want to smoke, I need to smoke. And if I don't discover what is really going on I'm afraid I will lose this battle. It's a shame that the medical comunity appears to have no clue as to what is going on. That's why all these NRT gimmicks have failed so badly. No one is addressing the secondary addiction.

Kevin

 

[Ghalenlee]

I just got done reading the 20 some odd pages of the thread that OTD posted. A lot of it went over my head, and a lot of it made perfect sense.

I am not a doctor, but I do know my own body and moods.

I truly believe that it's some type of MAOI withdrawal compounded by my predisposition for anxiety attacks, and maybe some PMS symptoms thrown in for good measure that had me thankful my shotgun doesn't have any ammo at the moment.

This is a good place to vent, and talking about it with others who are experiencing the same thing does help.

My bi-polar sister has an appointment with her psychiatrist this week and is going to ask for me what the symptoms of withdrawl from MAOIs is. She's always been one who can pick up smoking and drop it just as easily.. but she's also on a buffet of medications.

Today, is a little better, I can put the PV down for more than a minute and only feel a little of the nastiness. I am at a point right now tho, I have so much to do and I do not want to leave the house. I'm saving up all my energy because I know it's going to take everything I have not to call out of work tomorrow.

My BF told me I should go to the ER and tell them what's going on, I'm afraid if I do that they will hospitalize me and I have no way to pay for that right now.

There are some good suggestions in this thread and the one OTD recommended. If I buy a pack of cigarettes, I will open it and smoke it, that's the nature of my beast. I'm going to have to research that snus thing some. I know nothing about it. Not sure what I'm going to do but I will not go back to smoking, I am determined in that.

 

[frankie1]

DVap and others have done a FANTASTIC job researching this. The thread OTD referenced is chock full of information. The conclusion, in a very oversimplified statement, is that the other < 10% alkaloids, are potent and have been taken out of the nic liquid. Even though nicotine at 90% is the most prevalent alkaloid, the other alkaloids are quite probably enough to derail a lot of vapers from getting totally off analogs.

Maybe the nic liquid manufacturers will pick up on this and fix it, maybe not, but I would try snus or even smoke if I had to! Smoking is horrid, but rage related psychosis is probably worse.

I AM NOT A HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL OF ANY SORT, so take this as I wrote it....my personal opinion. BTW, DVap seems to be a chemist and others on that thread are highly skilled and intelligent IMO. The things that I have researched outside of this forum seem to back up what they say. I still smoke a few analogs a day to calm the beast, but I, until I can do better, am going under the assumption that 5 or so smokes a day beat 40+ per day by a mile! Good luck!

 

[olderthandirt]

I just got done reading the 20 some odd pages of the thread that OTD posted. A lot of it went over my head, and a lot of it made perfect sense.
....
This is a good place to vent, and talking about it with others who are experiencing the same thing does help.

....

Good morning Ghalenlee
Good to hear you can get that PV away from your face a little

A good portion of the "are we getting..." thread is over my head as well, but again as with you, the general thrust of it makes sense.

Been a real education for me since joining this forum. While the spectrum of vapers represented here is wide and varied, the similarities amaze me. The common theme of self medication with tobacco is something I had never considered or heard of elsewhere. Regardless the individual circumstance, be it anxiety or depression or what have you, a large number of us are truly in the same boat.

Here's to hoping you find your comfort level Ghalenlee !!

 

[Ghalenlee]

DVap and others have done a FANTASTIC job researching this. The thread OTD referenced is chock full of information. The conclusion, in a very oversimplified statement, is that the other < 10% alkaloids, are potent and have been taken out of the nic liquid. Even though nicotine at 90% is the most prevalent alkaloid, the other alkaloids are quite probably enough to derail a lot of vapers from getting totally off analogs.

Maybe the nic liquid manufacturers will pick up on this and fix it, maybe not, but I would try snus or even smoke if I had to! Smoking is horrid, but rage related psychosis is probably worse.

I AM NOT A HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL OF ANY SORT, so take this as I wrote it....my personal opinion. BTW, DVap seems to be a chemist and others on that thread are highly skilled and intelligent IMO. The things that I have researched outside of this forum seem to back up what they say. I still smoke a few analogs a day to calm the beast, but I, until I can do better, am going under the assumption that 5 or so smokes a day beat 40+ per day by a mile! Good luck!

I'm just stumped as to why it would take 2 weeks for symptoms to start showing up, is the half-life of the other alkaloids that long?

Yep, rage related psychosis will probably land me in prison and I believe they've banned smoking in our prisons so I'd really be up the creek.

I'm hoping the nic liquid manufacturers do pick up on this and fix it. I can't even imagine the brouhaha that would create with the fda, bt, and the like.

I was hoping that the PV would keep me off the cigarettes, I'm sad that it's not enough. For a normal person who was not self-medicating with cigarettes I'm sure it is enough and they can just muddle thru the withdrawal while the brain starts doing its job again. I don't think mine ever did the job correctly, LOL. I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank my genetics for the rampant mental illness that runs in my family whether they will admit it or not.

Maybe I'll just buy the damn pack of cigarettes and limit myself to one or two a day. But they really do taste like crap now.

 

[Robert]

Nicotine- You Need More of it try 24mg

New Age Self Help Therapy based on 4000 year old Chineese Medicine Totally Free to learn. This can help you and it's free and only take about 1/2 hour to learn and 10 minutes to do. Goto- http://www.emofree.com/

 

[badkolo]

I feel your pain, to the OP and the rest of you, after 22 years of analogs the e-cigs are the only thing that worked. And i wanted to quit but i went through the same exact things your all describing from flu symptons to aches and pains and anxiety issues which i already dealt with before stoping analogs.

I also fealt like a caged beast but i didnt feel like running out and buying analogs though which is amazing for me. What makes these issues easier to cope with is the kr808 or dpv9 at some places, the cartomizers at 24mg do the trick for me, they are the least hastle and work more like a analog with no worries about filling juice and making teabag mods etc... I do all the mods and stuff and have all the e-cig from 510 to 80 to 901 and the janty stick and the ps pt and all that good stuff but the 808 simulates an anolog quickly and effortlessly. so i suggest either try that with 24mg or fill the cartomizer with 36mg and try that or just drip some 24mg.

 

[frankie1]

Ghalenlee: IDK if it takes that long for the withdrawals to start. I do know that my problems started after about a month of vaping and I have never completely quit analogs. I had restricted myself to 2-3 per day and thought I was OK with it. When I had the first episode, (heart palpitations, nausea, dizziness, jerking) I discovered I was OK when I smoked an analog. Has happened several times, same story. I am currently undergoing a heart study (tests tommorrow, monitored for 3 weeks) and hope to find out more then. I don't know anything about panic attacks or anxiety disorder, since I have never had problems with either. Possibly my problems are NOT related to vaping or smoking cessation, but I am betting that they are.

 

[Piedlourde]

This is all highly complicated stuff. You shouldn't be trying to self diagnose or medicate.

Get to a Doctor. That's the best and only advice I will give you.
There must be a community Mental Health center in your area. Go there and see if they can help you at little or no cost. Try the ER in a public hospital as a last resort. Then pursue your disability claim.

Plus, I'm confused. I'm not a Medical Professional. I read a lot about medication interaction since I have family members that have various conditions.

What MAOI were you on? You said in your OP that you were on SSRI's and they are not typically given together.

Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors are last line, extremely strong anti-depressants and have nasty side effects when taken with certain foods and other medications. Even if you're on a higher dose patch form you still have to watch your diet.

Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors are especially not given with MAOI's. Here's a Mayo Clinic link about MAOI's. Page 2 talks about the interactions. Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) - MayoClinic.com

Tobacco use in people with mental illnesses as you describe is a common form of self-medication, it may or may not have something to do with your condition but this is not something I would try to figure out on my own.

I hope you're able to find some help in your community.
Good luck to you.